Doom9's Forum - View Single Post - DTS (& 640kbps AC3) encoding software questions, esp. as re. Blu-ray

A.Fenderson · 7th January 2011, 22:05

It seems like some people who likely find DTS 1.5Mbps a sweet-spot for quality vs. bitrate for surround-encoding are reencoding some of their lossless BD audio tracks to core DTS for their backups using BD-RB, or going to MKV, etc. I am considering this route myself (generally to BD25 via BD-RB), but have some questions for those in the know.

As of right now, the SurCode DVD-DTS application is $249 direct from the developer (slightly cheaper elsewhere). It seems to encode 1.5Mbps/756Kbps 48Khz streams, and DTS-CD compatible 44.1Khz streams. I'm fairly certain some people use this encoder app for Blu-ray backup audio reencodes.

DTS's own DTS Surround Audio Suite is also exactly $249 at the moment, and has all the functionality of the SurCode app, plus support for DTS-ES Discrete and DTS 96/24 (both of which are backwards-compatible with standard DTS-capable devices/decoders). It, however, has some caveats listed on the site:

In comparing the regular DTS encoder and their DTS-HD encoder, they state the following on their FAQ page:

DTS-HD Master Audio Suite (MAS) is capable of encoding all DTS-HD™, DTS Express™, and DTS Digital Surround™ audio stream types for Blu-ray Disc™, DVD, and DTS Music Disc. DTS Surround Audio Suite (SAS) is specifically suited for standard definition optical media, such as DVD and DTS Music Disc, but cannot produce Blu-ray Disc compatible stream types

On the surface, this seems in contradiction to the answer to a question a few lines lower on the same FAQ:

Can DTS be the only audio stream on a disc?

Blu-ray Disc: Yes! Any DTS-HD Master Audio, DTS-HD High Resolution Audio™ or DTS Digital Surround stream can be the sole audio stream on the disc.

But again, lower still, we have these two answers:

Which types of DTS-HD or DTS streams are compatible with which type of optical media?

.dtshd = Blu-ray Disc (Created by MAS only)
.cpt = DVD-V, DVD-A (MAS/SAS)
.wav = DTS Music Disc (MAS/SAS)
.dts = DVD-V, DVD-A (Pro Series Encoder — discontinued)
Can I author a Blu-ray Disc with a .cpt file?

No. Blu-ray Disc does not support .the cpt file structure. Blu-ray Disc only supports the .dtshd format, which is created with the DTS-HD Master Audio Suite.

So, is DTS just trying to hard-sell the (far) more expensive suite by outright lying, or is there a grain of truth in this, such as that technically the file/format output by the less expensive software won't work with BD unless somehow tweaked? If tweaking is necessary, are there free apps to handle this? Are the files output by SurCode, on the other hand, fully ready to be loaded into a Blu-ray authoring app?

Next issue:
Does anyone have any objective/subjective comparisons on the quality of the DTS 1.5Mbps encodes of the SurCode app vs. DTS's own DVD-DTS suite, or are the algorithms in the two apps identical (and deterministic) such that any identical inputs and parameters will result in identical outputs from each app?

And finally:
Seeing as how encoding to BD-compatible 640 kbps AC3 is possible for free using Aften (eac3to) etc, can anyone here comment on subjective/objective audio differences in encodes to 1.5Mbps DTS vs 640 Kbps AC3, especially any A/B listening experiences of encodes from an identical lossless source?

Thank you all. :-)

7th January 2011, 22:05	#1 \| Link
A.Fenderson Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 230	DTS (& 640kbps AC3) encoding software questions, esp. as re. Blu-ray It seems like some people who likely find DTS 1.5Mbps a sweet-spot for quality vs. bitrate for surround-encoding are reencoding some of their lossless BD audio tracks to core DTS for their backups using BD-RB, or going to MKV, etc. I am considering this route myself (generally to BD25 via BD-RB), but have some questions for those in the know. As of right now, the SurCode DVD-DTS application is $249 direct from the developer (slightly cheaper elsewhere). It seems to encode 1.5Mbps/756Kbps 48Khz streams, and DTS-CD compatible 44.1Khz streams. I'm fairly certain some people use this encoder app for Blu-ray backup audio reencodes. DTS's own DTS Surround Audio Suite is also exactly $249 at the moment, and has all the functionality of the SurCode app, plus support for DTS-ES Discrete and DTS 96/24 (both of which are backwards-compatible with standard DTS-capable devices/decoders). It, however, has some caveats listed on the site: In comparing the regular DTS encoder and their DTS-HD encoder, they state the following on their FAQ page: DTS-HD Master Audio Suite (MAS) is capable of encoding all DTS-HD™, DTS Express™, and DTS Digital Surround™ audio stream types for Blu-ray Disc™, DVD, and DTS Music Disc. DTS Surround Audio Suite (SAS) is specifically suited for standard definition optical media, such as DVD and DTS Music Disc, but cannot produce Blu-ray Disc compatible stream types On the surface, this seems in contradiction to the answer to a question a few lines lower on the same FAQ: Can DTS be the only audio stream on a disc? Blu-ray Disc: Yes! Any DTS-HD Master Audio, DTS-HD High Resolution Audio™ or *DTS Digital Surround stream can be the sole audio stream on the disc*. But again, lower still, we have these two answers: Which types of DTS-HD or DTS streams are compatible with which type of optical media? .dtshd = Blu-ray Disc (Created by MAS only) .cpt = DVD-V, DVD-A (MAS/SAS) .wav = DTS Music Disc (MAS/SAS) .dts = DVD-V, DVD-A (Pro Series Encoder — discontinued) Can I author a Blu-ray Disc with a .cpt file? No. Blu-ray Disc does not support .the cpt file structure. Blu-ray Disc only supports the .dtshd format, which is created with the DTS-HD Master Audio Suite. So, is DTS just trying to hard-sell the (far) more expensive suite by outright lying, or is there a grain of truth in this, such as that technically the file/format output by the less expensive software won't work with BD unless somehow tweaked? If tweaking is necessary, are there free apps to handle this? Are the files output by SurCode, on the other hand, fully ready to be loaded into a Blu-ray authoring app? Next issue: Does anyone have any objective/subjective comparisons on the quality of the DTS 1.5Mbps encodes of the SurCode app vs. DTS's own DVD-DTS suite, or are the algorithms in the two apps identical (and deterministic) such that any identical inputs and parameters will result in identical outputs from each app? And finally: Seeing as how encoding to BD-compatible 640 kbps AC3 is possible for free using Aften (eac3to) etc, can anyone here comment on subjective/objective audio differences in encodes to 1.5Mbps DTS vs 640 Kbps AC3, especially any A/B listening experiences of encodes from an identical lossless source? Thank you all. :-)