Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckwagon
I was able to figure out what was happening, at least with this disc. It turns out that subtitles are always on, there isn't really a "none" choice, even though that choice exists in the "settings" menu on the disc. There are 3 English subtitle tracks on the disc, and when "none" is selected, the disc is really using the 3rd English subtitle track, which only has subs for when an alien language is being translated, like when a Klingon is speaking.
On my setup BDRB is only keeping 1 subtitle track for each language (is that the default setting, I can't remember) and in this case, since the disc seems to force subs on all the time, the one it keeps is the one that always has text for all the speaking parts. If the 3rd track is manually selected instead of the 1st one, then things behave "normally." So for this disc, the solution would be to keep at least those two subs tracks instead of only one for English.
I don't know if this solution works for the other discs that have shown similar behavior, but it seems worknstiff also may have seen a similar solution, where it's just a matter of which sub track the movie would normally be forcing on, one that has text all the time vs one that only subs intermittently.
So my issue is resolved, but I don't know if this fixes the other's subs always on issues.
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Thanks for the analysis and feedback. Now it makes complete sense. When subtitles are removed, the references to them aren't actually removed -- only the subtitle stream itself. In order to prevent "goofy" behaviour (by BD-J or pre/post commands), the references to removed streams are kept intact but are all modified to point to the first kept subtitle stream. So when yours tries to turn on title 3 -- it's actually turning on title 1.
While it's completely legal to do it that way, the more common method is to have a single stream of subtitles -- but set the "force on" flag for instances that are required (like foreign languages such as Klingon). That's probably the reason this happens so rarely. I personally never see it because I always keep all subtitles.
Unfortunately there's really no way I can think of to know when this is being done.