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Old 30th May 2019, 13:41   #1695  |  Link
nevcairiel
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Hamburg/Germany
Posts: 10,344
Quote:
Originally Posted by dapperdan View Post
I'm not sure it's fair to say VP9 and AV1 were designed purely for those use cases, it's just that that's one of the easiest niches to win if you're a next-gen codec where encoding time is traded for smaller size.
Its not a design target for the codec itself, because the codec really doesn't care. I'm talking about encoders. The huge open-source push that made x264 as great as it is for "personal" encodes is unlikely to repeat itself. Companies driving encoder development do not target doom9ers. You can already see this on x265 where the community involvement is pretty low, and this will only get worse as the computational complexity of codecs goes up and the "personal use" usecases get less attractive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by birdie View Post
This is what I was talking about.

AV1 is not a codec for masses. It's a very special codec for content delivery. That's it. And that makes it and its discussion kinda worthless.
This will not change with any future codec. Not with AV2, not with VVC, or anything that follows. The computational complexity increase in all those future codecs just makes it impractical for "hobbyist" use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by birdie View Post
And VVC is already miles better/faster/more effective than AV1.
Dream on. A MPEG reference encoder has never won any price in any of those categories.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sneaker_ger View Post
Doom9 crowd can't exactly live on the potential of a spec. It needs (free/cheap) access to a well-rounded encoder implementation with a sweet spot on bitrate distribution/AQ/speed. x264 and x265 meet those demands. libvpx? Not so much.
And unless the "Doom9 crowd" is going to develop their own encoder, noone is going to do that for them. Thats how x264 was ultimately born, it was made by video enthusiasts, not a company.

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It really all comes down to the inherent complexity of newer codecs. As it gets more and more impractical to encode them due to the speed, less and less people and smaller companies are going to use them, and the entire ecosystem shifts over to only the bigger players that have the volume to host huge encoding farms. Even if there was a perfect free AV1 encoder, it would still be slow. There is no going fast without sacrificing quality or compression, at which point you eventually cross into the domain of already established codecs, and you lose your reason to even use the newer codec in the first place. Hence, development is no longer targeting individuals or small companies.
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Last edited by nevcairiel; 30th May 2019 at 13:54.
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