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Old 16th November 2011, 17:25   #10961  |  Link
iSeries
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Hi Madshi,

Here are 3 log files, 1 is playback of index.bdmv created by tsMuxer, 1 is playback of index.bdmv created by EasyBD, the other is playing m2ts directly created by EasyBD:

http://www.mediafire.com/?ufcwg42ir9h57wb
http://www.mediafire.com/?3r5tm7cj11de3zx
http://www.mediafire.com/?a6401atf29q08mm
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Old 16th November 2011, 17:27   #10962  |  Link
dansrfe
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The 25fps PAL VOB that I was referring to seems to be progressive to my eyes but here is the DGIndex info for the vob:



How does madVR know whether to bob/restore an ntsc source from 29.970 to 25 or to bob/deinterlace incorrectly mastered 25 to 23.976.

PS: The minimize/speeedup problem seems to be solved now.

Last edited by dansrfe; 16th November 2011 at 17:46.
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Old 16th November 2011, 17:36   #10963  |  Link
Anima123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Originally Posted by Anima123 View Post
Madshi, could you please add a force deinterlace option with the Ctrl+Alt+Shift D shortcut in case the source doesn't report the interlace status correctly?

Not sure what you mean? If you press Ctrl+Alt+Shift+D twice, you can force deinterlacing on. Isn't that what you want?
Yeah. Or maybe add an option "Don't respect source interlace information" to let press Ctrl+Alt+Shift+D to switch deinterlacing on or off.
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Old 16th November 2011, 17:40   #10964  |  Link
madshi
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Originally Posted by cyberbeing View Post
So when I playback back a DVD that the NVIDIA PureVideo MPEG2 decoder dynamically switches between 23.976fps display rate and 29.97fps display rate or just stable 23.976fps, it's not actually decimated but rather always soft-telecined? So basically any 30i content which DXVA deinterlacing doesn't display at 23.976 is hard-telecined? Does madVR currently support displaying 30i soft-telecined DVDs @ 23.976fps using DVXA2 deinterlacing?
I'm sorry, but I don't really feel like explaining all this another time. Please read this thread starting with the v0.78 announcement. I've explained a lot about soft-telecining, flags, deinterlacing etc in detail somewhere already. I'll be getting headaches if I have to explain that multiple times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dansrfe View Post
How does madVR know whether to bob/restore an ntsc source from 29.970 to 25 or to bob/deinterlace incorrectly mastered 23.976 to 25 fps?
I've no idea what you mean. There is no such thing as deinterlacing 24p to 25p.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iSeries View Post
Here are 3 log files, 1 is playback of index.bdmv created by tsMuxer, 1 is playback of index.bdmv created by EasyBD, the other is playing m2ts directly created by EasyBD:

http://www.mediafire.com/?ufcwg42ir9h57wb
http://www.mediafire.com/?3r5tm7cj11de3zx
http://www.mediafire.com/?a6401atf29q08mm
Thanks, but I'm really only interested in the log with the frame drops, nothing else. Which of the 3 is it?
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Old 16th November 2011, 17:42   #10965  |  Link
madshi
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Originally Posted by Anima123 View Post
Yeah. Or maybe add an option "Don't respect source interlace information" to let press Ctrl+Alt+Shift+D to switch deinterlacing on or off.
In what way would such an option change anything? Ctrl+Alt+Shift+D already lets you switch deinterlacing on/off right now.
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Old 16th November 2011, 17:45   #10966  |  Link
cremor
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
The new v0.79 allows you to specify the queue sizes you want. Please double check whether 12/8 still makes problems. If so, you can experiment with other size combinations, too. Would be interesting to hear what you find out.
I've now tested it with a decoder queue of 8, 12, 20 (auto) and 32 and couldn't reproduce the problem at all, seems like 0.79 fixed the queue bug I had
The render queue is always full now too, so the performance is even better than with 0.77

edit:
And my deinterlacing problems are fixed too! Many thanks for 0.79!

Last edited by cremor; 16th November 2011 at 17:57.
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Old 16th November 2011, 17:47   #10967  |  Link
iSeries
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Hi,

Its http://www.mediafire.com/?3r5tm7cj11de3zx

I uploaded 3 in case you were able to see any differences in the way they were handled.
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Old 16th November 2011, 18:01   #10968  |  Link
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Originally Posted by cremor View Post
I've now tested it with a decoder queue of 8, 12, 20 (auto) and 32 and couldn't reproduce the problem at all, seems like 0.79 fixed the queue bug I had
The render queue is always full now too, so the performance is even better than with 0.77

edit:
And my deinterlacing problems are fixed too! Many thanks for 0.79!
Glad to hear that!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by iSeries View Post
Hi,

Its http://www.mediafire.com/?3r5tm7cj11de3zx

I uploaded 3 in case you were able to see any differences in the way they were handled.
Thanks. I can see in the log that madVR doesn't do things as well as it could. I'll improve that in the next build. However, the fact still remains that the incoming timestamps are not good. It might make sense to not fix it for now, though, so that you can retest (and hopefully confirm) that the next madVR build will have fixed the issue.
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Old 16th November 2011, 18:10   #10969  |  Link
iSeries
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Many thanks for looking into this Madshi.

I have also emailed support at EasyBD with the details to ask them if there's anything they can look at (I'm not happy that the free tsMuxer plays perfectly while payware doesn't!).
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Old 16th November 2011, 18:11   #10970  |  Link
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VC1 clip does not work with MadVR decoder

This VC1 clip (from Bleak House) fails to play from MPC-HC when using the MadVR video decoder (also fails with LAV Video decoder). It plays fine with the WMVideo Decoder DMO.

http://www.mediafire.com/?njfncwonawz6pea
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Old 16th November 2011, 18:34   #10971  |  Link
madshi
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Originally Posted by joe42 View Post
This VC1 clip (from Bleak House) fails to play from MPC-HC when using the MadVR video decoder (also fails with LAV Video decoder). It plays fine with the WMVideo Decoder DMO.

http://www.mediafire.com/?njfncwonawz6pea
The libav VC-1 decoder currently does not support interlaced decoding. However, the Intel software decoder (also supported by madVR) does. So switch to the Intel decoder and it will work. Or use the Microsoft decoder instead. In order to use the Intel decoder you'll need to download the Intel decoder DLL. See first page of this thread.
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Old 16th November 2011, 18:36   #10972  |  Link
cyberbeing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Please read this thread starting with the v0.78 announcement. I've explained a lot about soft-telecining, flags, deinterlacing etc in detail somewhere already.
For anybody interested, below is a collection of all the relevant madshi quotes on DXVA deinterlacing since 0.78 release:

Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Nope. In detail this is what madVR is currently doing:

For every frame coming from the decoder, madVR checks whether the decoder reports the frame to be progressive or interlaced. If it's reported to be progressive, madVR tells DXVA2 to weave the frame and keep it untouched. If the frame is reported to be interlaced, madVR tells DXVA2 to deinterlace it in double frame rate. Now some movies are encoded with hard-telecine, others with soft-telecine, again others are a mixture of both. Depending on how the content was encoded, madVR might output double frame rate or single frame rate or a mixture of both. The same is true for VMR and EVR deinterlacing. As I explained in the v0.78 announcement post, I may improve this in a future version. For now with movie content you may get 25p or 50p, 24p or 60p, or something in between. It all depends on how the content was encoded.
Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
There's another problem: yadif is a pure video mode deinterlacer, it's not meant to be used for movies. So it's only half of a deinterlacer solution. For movie content you need IVTC. When talking about IVTC, there are a multitude of cadences. IVTCing just NTSC's 3:2 is pretty easy. But what about PAL's 2:2? Much more difficult, because there are no duplicate fields. Then there are various Anime cadences. Then there are bad edits. Finally, broadcasts sometimes have mixed video + movie content. With such content you need to deinterlace some parts of the frame with yadif and some with IVTC. In order to make that possible, you need an automatic per pixel video vs movie type detection, which is extremely hard to get right, especially with PAL content. Deinterlacing is a very very complex and difficult topic.

Of course I don't want to stop nevcairiel from adding deinterlacing to LAV Video Decoder, I'm just wondering whether it's really worth his time, considering the complexity involved in creating a "complete" solution.

DXVA deinterlacing has the luxury of having most of these problems already covered. Ok, I'm not sure how good all of these ATI/NVidia algorithms are, but in theory they should do all what I described above, including mixed video/movie content, minus decimation, however.
Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
madVR always performs double rate deinterlacing (so do VMR and EVR, I think). Which means that after deinterlacing you will probably get 50p, not 25p, except if the video is encoded with progressive frames, in which case you may get 25p. But considering your description I think you're getting 50p. Of course when playing 50p, slowed down to 48p by Reclock, at 24Hz, you'll get *massive* amounts of frame drops. And dropping every other frame means that madVR can only send every other frame to DXVA. This means that madVR has to switch to BOB deinterlacing, because the highest quality deinterlacing mode requires madVR to provide the current video frame, together with the 2 previous frames, one of which madVR has already dropped.
Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
DXVA does do IVTC, kind of, but with limitations. There are 2 key problems with DXVA IVTC, from what I can see:

(1) The current VMR, EVR and madVR implementations of DXVA deinterlacing "blindly" trust the video bitstream flags. That works well for some DVDs/broadcasts, but not for all. The better solution would be to distrust the flags. This is currently not done by any renderer using DXVA, as far as I can say. I might implement that in madVR in a future version.

(2) There's no support for decimation in DXVA1/2, so the output will be 60p, not 24p. I've seen that there may be some sort of support for frame rate changes and maybe decimation in DXVA-HD, but I'm not 100% sure.
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Old 16th November 2011, 18:42   #10973  |  Link
dansrfe
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The quality of DXVA2 deinterlacement with madVR is very good however since my GPU cannot deinterlace and upscale at the same time should I just deinterlace with ffdshow post-processing since that seems to work well with the GPU/CPU combo that I have?


I think it's time for me to get a new GPU...the question remains...Nvidia or ATI?

Last edited by dansrfe; 16th November 2011 at 19:04.
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Old 16th November 2011, 18:50   #10974  |  Link
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Do you get DXVA2 deinterlacing with EVR? Have you installed .NET 3.0?
I wouldn't know how to enable deinterlacing w/ EVR, and no I don't run .NET 3.0 either.
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Old 16th November 2011, 19:05   #10975  |  Link
madshi
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Originally Posted by dansrfe View Post
The quality of DXVA2 deinterlacement with madVR is very good however since my GPU cannot deinterlace and upscale at the same time should I just deinterlace with ffdshow post-processing since that seems to work well with the GPU/CPU combo that I have?
That's a viable option, if your CPU is fast enough. For video content, probably you'll lose a bit of image quality. For movie content, avisynth may even be better than DXVA, because avisynth should be able to do IVTC with decimating, which DXVA1/2 can't do.

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Originally Posted by leeperry View Post
I wouldn't know how to enable deinterlacing w/ EVR, and no I don't run .NET 3.0 either.
Basically you decode with LAV Video Decoder and switch to EVR. That's it. You don't have to "run" .NET 3.0, it just needs to be installed. But anyway, the question is whether it's worth your time, since you don't plan to use it, anyway.
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Old 16th November 2011, 19:16   #10976  |  Link
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madshi,

I am getting frame drops with 0.79 (2 so far with Inception m2ts file). I also had to re-enable "limit rendering times to avoid glitches" to remove the presentation glitches that started appearing.
I don't know what to look for in the log to identify frame drops, but both are near the end.
The debug OSD shows a frame drop in ~2 days.

In any case, the log is here.
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Old 16th November 2011, 19:17   #10977  |  Link
leeperry
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
.NET 3.0, it just needs to be installed. But anyway, the question is whether it's worth your time, since you don't plan to use it
Well yeah, I don't run any software requiring having all this bloat installed...and indeed, I don't care about having the VR doing the deinterlacing either after all.

BTW, everything's cool w/ the defaults for the "queues sizes to GPU ram" stuff...should I play around w/ those? everything seems as smooth as before AFAICT

Last edited by leeperry; 16th November 2011 at 19:24.
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Old 16th November 2011, 19:29   #10978  |  Link
madshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaurus View Post
I am getting frame drops with 0.79 (2 so far with Inception m2ts file). I also had to re-enable "limit rendering times to avoid glitches" to remove the presentation glitches that started appearing.

In any case, the log is here.
Looks like a bug in madVR, will be fixed in the next build.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leeperry View Post
BTW, everything's cool w/ the defaults for the "queues sizes to GPU ram" stuff...should I play around w/ those? everything seems as smooth as before AFAICT
If everything is perfect, there's no reason to play around, right? Of course playing is fun, so you might as well try to find a difference with different queue sizes...
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Old 16th November 2011, 19:52   #10979  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Interesting. So you can actually use 32CPU/24GPU? That's probably with SD content, though?
No, that's with 1920x1080 HD content.
I did some more testing on this.

Maxed out queues work fine will 1080p24 and 1080i30 content as long as it's not being upscaled. They also work fine when upscaling 720p to 1080p or 1440x1080 to 1920x1080.

With progressive content, the queues work fine when equal, unlike DXVA deinterlacing + madVR internal decoder where the CPU queue needs to be around 2 higher to not cause issues.

If I upscale 1920x1080p24 to 2560x1440, the maximum queue size I can set is 20CPU/20GPU before running out of memory on my GPU using madVR luma/chroma resizers + 3dlut. GPU-Z reports memory use as 506MB/512MB while madVR reports 1560MB/512MB.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaurus View Post
I am getting frame drops with 0.79.
Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Looks like a bug in madVR, will be fixed in the next build.
I seem to be getting occasional delayed frames (not dropped since high refresh rate) once again in madVR with 0.79, and it also appears the delayed/dropped every XXX measure in the OSD seems to be increasing slower when used in conjunction with ReClock than previous builds. In case this is the same bug as Xaurus, I'll wait for the next build before looking into it further.

Last edited by cyberbeing; 16th November 2011 at 20:02.
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Old 16th November 2011, 19:55   #10980  |  Link
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Interesting. So 512MB seems to be plenty. So: Do bigger CPU/GPU queue sizes help? Do they harm? Anyone any experience on this?
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