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Old 6th July 2014, 04:22   #20481  |  Link
jdobbs
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...as I only make 3D movies, FRIMSource comes as default.
Ok I'm confused. FRIMDecode and FRIM Encoder are the only way to do 3D. So you can't disable it for a 3D source. Also, you can't use CRF when using FRIMSource() -- I've already said that. It isn't going to work because you can't do seeking.
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PS: can be used in the future "Intel Quicksync"? With other programs my slow Intel i5 4200U shows gains from 20-25 fps to 80-90 fps... If I had an i7 @ 4.0 Ghz it would be another story lolol
When using FRIMSource and FRIM Encode -- you ARE using "Intel Quicksync". If your system supports hardware encoding, look at FRIM_SW_DECODE and FRIM_SW_ENCODE in HIDDENOPTS.TXT. If you set it to hardware mode in the CONFIG/INI file (and your system truly supports it) you should see the higher speeds.
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On your opinion, what would be better as overall 3D result (quality and as HW decode compatibility): MVC or full size SBS?
Well... full size SBS isn't BD compatible so it isn't really a 1:1 comparison. But if you are doing, for example, an MKV backup for archiving -- you'll likely get better quality with full SBS because you can then use X264 for the encoding. X264 is a better encoder and has lots of features that improve picture quality. You may get a little better efficiency (lower output size) with MVC because of lesser redundancy, but that's about it. But it also is compatible with BD -- and full SBS is unlikely to ever be BD compatible.
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Last edited by jdobbs; 6th July 2014 at 04:29.
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Old 6th July 2014, 05:04   #20482  |  Link
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Jdobbs, does frimsource.dll benefit from Intel quicksync. Last time I checked it was only frimdecode and frimencode.

May be I am missing something. Also wouldn't frimsource.dll limit by avisynth as well.
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Old 6th July 2014, 10:01   #20483  |  Link
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HWK & Jdobbs: thanks for the answers


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...Also, you can't use CRF when using FRIMSource() -- I've already said that. It isn't going to work because you can't do seeking.
Perhaps I missed it. Curious enough, BD Rebuilder will try to use crf (but then wonīt do anything) though I am doing a 3D with FRIMSource.

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When using FRIMSource and FRIM Encode -- you ARE using "Intel Quicksync". If your system supports hardware encoding, look at FRIM_SW_DECODE and FRIM_SW_ENCODE in HIDDENOPTS.TXT. If you set it to hardware mode in the CONFIG/INI file (and your system truly supports it) you should see the higher speeds.
My system has a new Haswell i5 4200U processor (together with an Nvidia 730M), so yes. Nevertheless I only got between 8 - 20 fps. PS: handbrake uses this tech for normal movies, canīt be done to use outside FRIMSource?

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But if you are doing, for example, an MKV backup for archiving -- you'll likely get better quality with full SBS because you can then use X264 for the encoding
No, I do not use BD compatibility, I have a Windows 8.1 HTPC with XBMC, PowerDVD and so on, and I want to watch 3D movie backups with the best quality. Nevertheless all full SBS movies lack detail in comparison with the original movie.

Sadly XBMC only supports SBS and not MVC, and powerdvd crashes a lot reading movie-only mvc backups.
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Old 6th July 2014, 13:08   #20484  |  Link
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...and powerdvd crashes a lot reading movie-only mvc backups.
My experience is that powerdvd crashes a lot with or without mvc...
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Old 6th July 2014, 13:13   #20485  |  Link
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Jdobbs, does frimsource.dll benefit from Intel quicksync. Last time I checked it was only frimdecode and frimencode.

May be I am missing something. Also wouldn't frimsource.dll limit by avisynth as well.
Actually I should correct/clarify myself.

FRIMSource() is used when doing SBS output of 3D. When doing a standard MVC backup FRIMDECODE is used.

I know FRIMSource() uses the Intel SDK just like FRIMDecode does, so I would assume it uses quicksync for decoding. It is my impression that it is just a version of FRIMDecode that has been modified for use as an AVISYNTH plugin. But I've never actually seen the code.
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Old 6th July 2014, 13:57   #20486  |  Link
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My experience is that powerdvd crashes a lot with or without mvc...
Do you know any alternative for 3D MVC files? (I tried other players like windvd but they donīt support my HDD backups...)
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Old 6th July 2014, 14:00   #20487  |  Link
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Do you know any alternative for 3D MVC files? (I tried other players like windvd but they donīt support my HDD backups...)
Sorry, but no. I do my 3D viewing on either a Samsung or Sony standalone. I only use PowerDVD when I'm doing quick tests of new code.
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Old 6th July 2014, 18:34   #20488  |  Link
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@mmick RE: Nevertheless all full SBS movies lack detail in comparison with the original movie. Sadly XBMC only supports SBS and not MVC, and powerdvd crashes a lot reading movie-only mvc backups.

I don't know why you would want to do 3D in SBS even if doing it with Full SBS. You can do 3D movie only output to either MVC or ISO output and keep the original bitrate quality if you don't need to fit it onto a blue-ray disk. I use Arcsoft TMT5 for playback of my 3D backups and it plays very well using my Nvidia GPU hooked up to a 3D capable display and of course 3D glasses. I don't really see the need to downgrade the picture quality by using SBS unless you are just trying to make a more compact portable file. SBS will never be a great video quality solution even if you use the FULL SBS size, or at least that's what I have found by playing around with it.

@ jdobbs. Have you been able to experiment any with "THE LEGO MOVIE" 3D yet? I was hoping to see if you or anyone else had trouble backing it up.
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Old 6th July 2014, 19:31   #20489  |  Link
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@ jdobbs. Have you been able to experiment any with "THE LEGO MOVIE" 3D yet? I was hoping to see if you or anyone else had trouble backing it up.
I will give a try, in a day or two. In the mean time can you post about setting you are using to back it up or any other info which might be relevant.
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Old 6th July 2014, 19:33   #20490  |  Link
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Do you know any alternative for 3D MVC files? (I tried other players like windvd but they donīt support my HDD backups...)
Arcosft TMT will help you in this case.
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Old 6th July 2014, 19:35   #20491  |  Link
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I don't know why you would want to do 3D in SBS even if doing it with Full SBS. You can do 3D movie only output to either MVC or ISO output and keep the original bitrate quality if you don't need to fit it onto a blue-ray disk.
I cannot afford to have a full-bitrated backup of my 3D movies, most (without extras or extra soundtracks) would use 25-40Gb...

I am still struggling to find a stable, decent 3D output that would be generally accepted by most (Windows) players.

Half-SBS MKV/M2TS: accepted by all players (manual 3D on my TV) and plays on all "Full HD capable" hardware. Looks like a 3D DVD-rip. Unacceptable.

Full-SBS MKV/M2TS: Powerdvd and XBMC detects it well as 3D, but bad aspect ratio. My AMD E-450 "UVD3" HTPC doesnīt play it on hardware and it is too slow. It plays fine on my i5-4200U ultrabook. Looks like a 3D 720p movie. Acceptable.

MVC MKV/M2TS/ISO: Still on tests. (AMD E-450 "UVD3" HTPC is too slow).

How do you set-up BD Rebuilder for your movie-only MVC ISO?

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Arcosft TMT will help you in this case.
Thanks, Iīll try to find a test version of it :-)

Last edited by mmick; 6th July 2014 at 19:39.
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Old 6th July 2014, 19:46   #20492  |  Link
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How do you set-up BD Rebuilder for your movie-only MVC ISO?
In BD-RB navigate to mode section and choose movie only backup. This method will work for 2D and 3D.

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Old 6th July 2014, 20:34   #20493  |  Link
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@mmick RE: Nevertheless all full SBS movies lack detail in comparison with the original movie. Sadly XBMC only supports SBS and not MVC, and powerdvd crashes a lot reading movie-only mvc backups.

I don't know why you would want to do 3D in SBS even if doing it with Full SBS. You can do 3D movie only output to either MVC or ISO output and keep the original bitrate quality if you don't need to fit it onto a blue-ray disk. I use Arcsoft TMT5 for playback of my 3D backups and it plays very well using my Nvidia GPU hooked up to a 3D capable display and of course 3D glasses. I don't really see the need to downgrade the picture quality by using SBS unless you are just trying to make a more compact portable file. SBS will never be a great video quality solution even if you use the FULL SBS size, or at least that's what I have found by playing around with it.

@ jdobbs. Have you been able to experiment any with "THE LEGO MOVIE" 3D yet? I was hoping to see if you or anyone else had trouble backing it up.
A full SBS movie would have exactly the same detail as an MVC backup.

Sorry, but no, I haven't tried LEGO MOVIE yet.
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Old 6th July 2014, 22:37   #20494  |  Link
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LEGO Movie is a strange disc. The movie m2ts is tiny, and the ssif is huge. But it works.
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Old 6th July 2014, 22:52   #20495  |  Link
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On vacation right now -- please remind me to look at it in a couple of weeks.
jdobbs:
A friendly reminder; it looks as if you would be back home

http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1683674&postcount=20413
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Old 7th July 2014, 00:22   #20496  |  Link
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when specifying

MIN_M2TS_SIZE=30 it gets ignored, I understand the default is 100 but anything lower and the new setting gets ignored. It only responds to setting above 100.

trying to blank a bunch of extras that are between 30 and 100mb
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Old 7th July 2014, 07:33   #20497  |  Link
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LEGO Movie is a strange disc. The movie m2ts is tiny, and the ssif is huge. But it works.
When you refer to it works, are you referring to backup or playback. I am guessing playback but want to confirm.

[update] It is backup problem and has to do with input size seen by BD-RB. I am trying to find out what is the cause of this issue.
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Old 7th July 2014, 10:53   #20498  |  Link
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@ jdobbs. Have you been able to experiment any with "THE LEGO MOVIE" 3D yet? I was hoping to see if you or anyone else had trouble backing it up.
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Sorry, but no, I haven't tried LEGO MOVIE yet.
I have managed to figure out cause of failure and why it is failing. In my case I used Region A disc. This is gone be long so bear with me.

[Disc Info]

00042.m2ts contain only 7min and 19 sec from beginning and 00065.m2ts is mvc view for corresponding 00042.m2ts. Normally 3D disc has AVC and MVC view and they are interleaved in ssif folder with file name of avc file. Which allow backwards compatibility with 2D system.

Example 0001.m2ts (AVC) and 0002.m2ts (MVC) will be 0001.ssif with size of 0001 + 0002 combined.

Lego is 3D exclusive and in this case there is no backwards compatibility and will not play in 2D system. Normally disc are backwards compatible, even if they are not as long there is avc stream with full movie, hack like Slysoft Anydvd "simulate 3D display" would work. However in this case it simply doesn't contain full movie avc stream.

Rather it is made of SSIF file, which is not fake or made of two m2ts files commonly found on disc. SSIF file in this case holds actual movie itself and since it only play in 3D, when player plays it is actually reading SSIF file sectors, not interleaved files between two m2ts files normally found in Blu-ray 3D.

Reason why BD-RB can’t back it up is normally when you open disc in BD-RB. It scans all mpls based files and display movie only or all relevant title based on import threshold. In Lego case 00098.mpls tell program movie is 1h 40m and 35 sec which causes it to import, however it imports actual stream from 00042.m2ts and 00065.m2ts which account for size 2,454.44MB seen in BD-RB. Even though program suppose to import full movie but it end up importing 7min and 19 sec segment.



What program need to do in this case is use SSIF file which will successfully import entire movie. Instead of first seven minute and nineteen second and to back it up program will also require telling tsmuxer to use SSIF file for extraction instead of m2ts it normally uses.

Normally if disc is interleaved to create SSIF file, BDMV folder will be close to double the size of movie and in some cases size of disc. However in this case there is not such thing.

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Old 7th July 2014, 14:40   #20499  |  Link
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@HWK RE: SSIF file in this case holds actual movie itself and since it only play in 3D, when player plays it is actually reading SSIF file sectors, not interleaved files between two m2ts files normally found in Blu-ray 3D.

Hey, thanks for looking into this HWK. I wonder if this is why the 3D quality in this movie was not as good as the REAL 3D that played in the theater. I watched this at home after I got it and was completely underwhelmed with what I was seeing. The whole movie was kinda soft and blurry, without the primary colors that popped when I saw it at the theater. I have seriously thought about returning it because I was so unimpressed with the 3D on it, especially because I paid 38 bucks for it.
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Old 7th July 2014, 14:50   #20500  |  Link
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jdobbs:
A friendly reminder; it looks as if you would be back home

http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1683674&postcount=20413
Yep, thanks, I'm home now. Life and vacations are too short. I'll go back an look at the posts.
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