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Old 30th June 2015, 14:25   #31421  |  Link
Vyral
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I mainly watch cartoon (anime to be more precise) and I haven't noticed any ringing with super-xbr for chroma on HD and F-HD video.
However, it's very noticeable with super-xbr for chroma and image doubling on MD video (480p and lower), that is why I'm still using Bicubic 75 AR and NNEDI32 in this case.
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Last edited by Vyral; 30th June 2015 at 14:27.
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Old 30th June 2015, 15:06   #31422  |  Link
seriouser
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I'm using SmootMotion to watch 23.978 content on a 60hz display. Concerning the rendering stats should i aim to keep them below the Vsync interval which is 16.67ms or the movie frame interval which is 41.71ms?
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Old 30th June 2015, 15:13   #31423  |  Link
huhn
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below 40 ms
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Old 30th June 2015, 15:19   #31424  |  Link
nussman
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Really? I thought processing have to be done in the VSync interval?

Last edited by nussman; 30th June 2015 at 15:59.
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Old 30th June 2015, 15:23   #31425  |  Link
huhn
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try it out.

a couple of ms below movie frame rate is all you need.

and never forget not all source are 23p.
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Old 30th June 2015, 15:33   #31426  |  Link
vivan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nussman View Post
Really? I thought processing have to done in the VSync interval?
All processing (except frame blending) is done in a separate queue (buffer). Blending itself is very fast and done when presenting frames - so to show 2 blended frames it doesn't have to render both of them (again).
So only average rendering time matters - if it would be too high (compared to the average consumption time which is video framerate) queue will drain and there would be no frames to blend and present.
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Old 30th June 2015, 15:40   #31427  |  Link
seriouser
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Thanks for the information!
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Old 30th June 2015, 15:48   #31428  |  Link
aufkrawall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyral View Post
I mainly watch cartoon (anime to be more precise) and I haven't noticed any ringing with super-xbr for chroma on HD and F-HD video.
However, it's very noticeable with super-xbr for chroma and image doubling on MD video (480p and lower), that is why I'm still using Bicubic 75 AR and NNEDI32 in this case.
I assume that NNEDI3 will never be really replaced in terms of quality (if quality is defined as the absence of aliasing and ringing and cleanest reconstruction of lines).
I hope fast 16nm GPUs will be able to do 1080p60 -> 4k with 64 neurons.
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Old 30th June 2015, 16:19   #31429  |  Link
littleD
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Hello, sorry if thats naive question but how about implementing into madvr option of dynamically set a scaling algorithm basing on gpu usage. I know there are profiles, but you know, there are many different videos. Madvr behaves basically as video game, switching between algoritms is instant and fluent, there are apis of measuring gpu usage, the quality gradation of scaling algoritms is known. What about implementing adaptive - turn on best scaling when available? When scaling takes too much time and makes stuttering, madvr could set lighter scaling to particular videos for fluent watching. Thanks to that we dont have to configure many advanced options. I know user can have taste and prefer scaling one over another, but author can still add list of preferable algos. What about this insane thought?
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Old 30th June 2015, 17:01   #31430  |  Link
leeperry
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Oh wow...mVR is now drastically improving on a weekly basis, can hardly wait for new week

So I've been doing quite a lot of testing today and here we go:

-Sorry, I didn't go 200% as I wanted to compare it all in a real-world environment at 1080p in a pitch black room in order to focus on the picture only
-I had all sharpening disabled, using ED2@8bit
-Using J3AR and CR AR LL because they're the best and the GIGO principle does apply IME
-sxbr25 is too soft to be useful to anything, is there any simple way to run it as a PS script in my media player please? Even for tiny videos sometimes 50 is too soft and 75 too sharp, I don't watch anime and I can definitely confirm that sxbr will replace NNEDI3 for me because the latter is too GPU hungry and too artificial looking to my taste. Whenever there are natural elements such as sand, grass or leaves it just looks wrong to me.
-I still far prefer NEDI+SR for 720p@1080p because it looks natural and just really great IMHO
-Actually I'm cool with the current stock settings of SR, I mean 2 passes don't seem to be enough and 4 too much, 0.75 seems to hit the spot not being too soft or too sharp, 0.10 softness looks equally good because 0.05 is edgier and 0.15 too blurry and HQ disabled looks a hell lot better too yay! When I enable HQ the "watching through a window" feeling disappears, it looks dull and sorta noisy....really hate the look, major bottleneck at work here......"tout ça pour ça"

I've compared 13 and 14 quite a lot of times and I can definitely tell that 14's SR is a major improvement yay, the picture looks more natural and well I'm just extremely impressed. Shiandow at the mantrols huh

Last edited by leeperry; 1st July 2015 at 01:54.
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Old 30th June 2015, 17:54   #31431  |  Link
JarrettH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leeperry View Post
-I still far prefer NEDI+SR for 720p@1080p because it looks natural and just really great IMHO
To me, xbr100 is looking a little too sharp. I tested NEDI+SR (defaults) vs xbr75 doubling alone and they looked pretty much alike except xbr alone will run much faster
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Old 30th June 2015, 20:29   #31432  |  Link
leeperry
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^ I just compared the combos you mentioned and what I like about SR is how it makes motion blur more natural looking, it's even more obvious on 24p IME.

I shoulda mentioned that I did try to increase SR's strength while having HQ enabled but this was still a major no-go to my eyes, I just tried it again and yeah the picture gets fuzzy and noisy as soon as HQ is on.

I fully agree that if anything's currently lacking in mVR it's an sxbr strength knob or at least more steps because 37 might be right up my alley and 87 yours
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Old 30th June 2015, 20:31   #31433  |  Link
oddball
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I have some confusion about the fact that there is now sharpening and Super res in 3 different places. If I am using one for upscaling and one for native res do they cross each other? For instance if I tick sharpening under Image Enhancements does it also affect chroma upscaling and/or upscaling refinement? Which order should I be using them in for which settings?

Also. Since there is now a sharpening option can we have a luma denoiser (with sizer and strength) in future builds?
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Old 30th June 2015, 23:15   #31434  |  Link
Dlget
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Hi,
My specs
i5 2500k with gtx 960 , display aoc e2352phz
Why i'm getting dx3d 8bit?
& what color output i should use in nvidia setting? YCbCr or RGB in Ful range???
What should i use for my display 8bpc or 12 bpc?
i watch anime frequently & is my setting ok for it
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Old 1st July 2015, 00:09   #31435  |  Link
XMonarchY
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Why is it I get 0 issues during playback on my 60Hz 1080p HDTV, but I do get crazy number of presentation glitches on my 1080p 120Hz monitor, using identical settings? Average stats rendering time is 15ms and present time is below 6-8 or so in both cases. Max stats rendering time often switches between 16ms and 33ms and present time usually stays at about 33ms, but at times goes to 140ms. I get these presentation glitches only in Exclusive mode, although I tried to disable "present several frames in advance", but that made no difference. Turning off Direct3D 11 made no difference. Enabling/Disabling "present a frame for every Vsync" also made no difference. I also tried to tone down settings to make it easier on GPU (no NNEDI3, no SuperRes, etc), but that also made no difference!

Last edited by XMonarchY; 1st July 2015 at 00:12.
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Old 1st July 2015, 01:11   #31436  |  Link
oddball
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XMonarchY View Post
Why is it I get 0 issues during playback on my 60Hz 1080p HDTV, but I do get crazy number of presentation glitches on my 1080p 120Hz monitor, using identical settings? Average stats rendering time is 15ms and present time is below 6-8 or so in both cases. Max stats rendering time often switches between 16ms and 33ms and present time usually stays at about 33ms, but at times goes to 140ms. I get these presentation glitches only in Exclusive mode, although I tried to disable "present several frames in advance", but that made no difference. Turning off Direct3D 11 made no difference. Enabling/Disabling "present a frame for every Vsync" also made no difference. I also tried to tone down settings to make it easier on GPU (no NNEDI3, no SuperRes, etc), but that also made no difference!
Firstly. Turn off any overclocking to rule that out as an issue (I noticed you have your 980 OC'd). DVI or display port? Material you are trying to play? FPS and resolution? Did you reset MadVR to defaults and retry? Also if none of that works try forcing your monitor to 60Hz and retry. Also check your drivers and driver settings.
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Old 1st July 2015, 03:29   #31437  |  Link
MysteryX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JarrettH View Post
To me, xbr100 is looking a little too sharp. I tested NEDI+SR (defaults) vs xbr75 doubling alone and they looked pretty much alike except xbr alone will run much faster
Agree. NEDI+SR combine very well together. Jinc+SR doesn't work well. I like that XBR has a very low performance cost compared to other algorithms, but it doesn't do nearly as good as NEDI+SR. XBR creates a LOT of ringing around artifacts and distorts the image considerably for low-quality videos (280p, 360p), while I found it to work OK for 480p sources that are clearer.

How do NNEDI3+SR combine?
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Old 1st July 2015, 03:50   #31438  |  Link
JarrettH
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And xbr75 doubling is softer than Jinc AR alone

I see what madshi means by "good ringing." Even if you upscale using jinc, you still get indefinite edges (for example, works of art or painted ceramics do not have soft or indistinct lines). The "good ringing" restores soft lines/edges to what the original would have looked like. This tightens up the picture IMO without the usual halo-like ringing.

jinc AR, xbr chroma
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3920/...7625c2ac_o.png

xbr doubling, xbr chroma
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3704/...c74111ef_o.png

Last edited by JarrettH; 1st July 2015 at 04:02.
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Old 1st July 2015, 06:27   #31439  |  Link
RyuzakiL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyral View Post
I mainly watch cartoon (anime to be more precise) and I haven't noticed any ringing with super-xbr for chroma on HD and F-HD video.
However, it's very noticeable with super-xbr for chroma and image doubling on MD video (480p and lower), that is why I'm still using Bicubic 75 AR and NNEDI32 in this case.

I have some detective conan episodes in my hard drive in 480p reso. and using SuperXBR for chroma and image doubling produces barely noticable ringing.

My system can't handle NNEDI3 so I think I'll just stick with this config for SD videos (anime and movies)

Chroma Upscaling : SuperXBR75+AR+SuperRes (2/1/0)
Image Downscaling : Catmull-Rom+AR+LL
Image Doubling : All 5 Boxes Checked+SuperXBR75+Always - if upscaling is needed
Image Upscaling : Jinc+AR
Upscaling Refine : SuperRes (2/1/0) + HQ Downscaling + refine the image only once after scaling is complete + apply SuperRes first

p.s. I must say there's a lot of SuperRes going on. Which SuperRes should I disable from the Steps? (Coz having many SuperRes seems redundant)

Last edited by RyuzakiL; 1st July 2015 at 06:36.
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Old 1st July 2015, 06:48   #31440  |  Link
QBhd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XMonarchY View Post
Why is it I get 0 issues during playback on my 60Hz 1080p HDTV, but I do get crazy number of presentation glitches on my 1080p 120Hz monitor, using identical settings? Average stats rendering time is 15ms and present time is below 6-8 or so in both cases. Max stats rendering time often switches between 16ms and 33ms and present time usually stays at about 33ms, but at times goes to 140ms. I get these presentation glitches only in Exclusive mode, although I tried to disable "present several frames in advance", but that made no difference. Turning off Direct3D 11 made no difference. Enabling/Disabling "present a frame for every Vsync" also made no difference. I also tried to tone down settings to make it easier on GPU (no NNEDI3, no SuperRes, etc), but that also made no difference!
Is it the same GPU powering both screens? I can't see any reason why this would happen. There must be something else going on in your system. Are you sure your are using a cable (HDMI, DVI, D-port) that supports speeds of 1080p120.

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