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Old 8th July 2015, 23:10   #31601  |  Link
Eyldebrandt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Regardless of settings?

Did you have a different opinion about the old SuperRes algorithm?
Honestly, the differences between the algorithms and the color space on HQ content @ 4K or WQHD are insignificants.
And with low strength, the action is invisible.

I'm confused, because I think SuperRes is better than the 1st version, but settings are gone.

On the very 1st build,I used superRes with high quality instead of mid, and with everything @ 0.0 except strength.
Since, I never succeed to reach the same "quality" i had at the beginning.

I think sxbr is a great algo, definitly, but I'm still using NNEDI3 64 everywhere. So, The only reason why I don't use the first build of SuperRes for all day using is AdaptativeSharpen which is the best sharpener i ever seen.

Well, I know you don't want too much settings in madVR, and it will be a good thing for most users.
But it seems that here, on this particulary thread, there is a lot of dudes who are some kind of seekers.
And those seekers, if I can tell, i don't think you will succeed to pleased them all at 100% with half or less settings.

But again, you're the masterchief, and for what I'm concerned, I'll upgrade for every version, because that contribute to make madVR alive. And that is the most important.
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Old 8th July 2015, 23:41   #31602  |  Link
leeperry
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Not with madVR, no. madVR does currently not support custom shaders which change video resolutions. This is planned for a future version, but it will take some time to get there.
Figures, I was afraid so. I can wait before trying xsbr37 though, no big hurry.

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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
What looks best to you isn't always fixed, though. One day you love a noisy picture and ask for ways to add even more grain.
Oh, do I seriously have to justify myself on this? OK here goes:
-I used to like adding tons of grain using GrainFactory3() over VGA fed to a CRT and HDMI to a Darkchip3 DLP projector because picture was extremely grainy to begin with and adding "smart" noise made the picture less "flat" so to speak.

-Regarding my recent switch from ED1 to ED2 with the same Sammy LCD LED TV, it's actually very simple: I switched from a very thin cheapo 8ft HDMI/DVI cable(BestBuy OEM brand duh) to a 4ft TOTL DVI cable with triple shielding, the thing is stiff as hell and made of solid copper wires.

We've all heard the stories that as long as TMDS gets through, it'll be 1:1 so I'm not sure whether the extreme shielding, signal quality or maybe the AMD drivers playing tricks on me such as several lossy YcbCr/RGB lossy conversions are the culprit(s) but PQ is *way* sharper over DVI. I do know that my neighbors blast me off with WiFi but the bluriness on computer fonts I assumed to be caused by 4:2:2 subsampling is now mostly history and with such a pinpoint sharp picture ED1 instantly became a no-go.

On a noisy set such as CRT or plasma, I would more than likely prefer ED1 again. Choices are good, they come in handy sometimes.

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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
HQ downscaling is actually the scientifically and technically more correct solution. Actually, the non-HQ-downscaling implementation was broken. It did not work as it was originally intended. Still, you liked it better, which is your right. But several other users had a different opinion, *I* had a different opinion, and then add to that the scientific background and the fact that the non-HQ option was actually doing stuff wrong. All this combined led me to the decision to use HQ downscaling.
Oh, so HQ is gone for good now? The thing is that different setups might respond differently, especially the video display built-in dithering. I'll be sure to test the new settings of the latest build(being the mVR whore that I am ) but I would thoroughly enjoy a way to disable HQ again please, otherwise I might be stuck with .14 till mVR allows custom shaders that change video resolutions

So HQ looks better or worse depending on the footage and it's now forced, bleh...you even said yourself that you were not sure whether it decreased or improved PQ when you first implemented it. I would happily trade the "don't use linear light for dithering" option for "don't use HQ downscaling for SR" if any possible please, no harm done and I bet no one uses the former anymore(yes, I used to like it with my crappy 8ft HDMI cable on anime content only). GL for dithering is an equally "scientifically and technically less correct solution" AFAICT and looks laughable with any grey ramp, yet it did survive.

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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
This is a custom reencoded Anime sample with ringing artifacts in the source. I've not compared this sample with HQ downscaling on/off. But in any case, do you really want to base your decisions on an Anime reencoding which has EE artifacts in the source already? Of course testing such sources is useful, too, but only as one of many tests.
Well, SR only takes care of upscales AFAIK and pretty much all 720p movies are reencodes in one way or another. I'd even dare saying that 99% of them are 1080p downscales. I do see the very same "hard" edges on whatever content when using NNEDI3 or sxbr though, it's fantastic for tiny videos but they both seriously try too hard for 720p@1080p to my eyes. NEDI is sharper than J3AR and yet doesn't give that nasty computerized look, please don't toss it

Last edited by leeperry; 10th July 2015 at 01:54.
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Old 8th July 2015, 23:50   #31603  |  Link
Anime Viewer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
* added SuperRes "use alternative color space" option
* replaced SuperRes "HQ downscaling" option with new "algo" multi option[/COLOR]

All SuperRes users, please play with this new build. There are 2 new options: "algo" and "use alternative color space". I've intentionally named them in such a way that you can't know which does which exactly. I would like to hear your feedback about which settings you like.

This time the upscaling factor is less important (higher factor might make differences more obvious, though). Also this time don't try to find optimal passes/sharpness values. Instead it might make sense to dial passes/sharpness up as much as your GPU can handle, so you can better judge the differences between the various new options. Higher passes/strength values will make the differences more obvious.
I've tested a few sources, and notice a difference when switching between the different algorithms. However so far its been difficult to determine which of the looks I prefer. I think testing other sources will be necessary before I come up with a preference. Based on what I can see it almost looks like switching between algo settings was changing between Super-xBR, NEDI, NNEDI3, and something else. I almost missed that there was a algo "0" option, as I expected the options to be numbered from 1 upwards.


Quote:
Originally Posted by leandronb View Post
Hi guys. today i started watching a movie and noticed that was not smooth, i saw the stats on madvr and was showing a lot of dropped frames. tried another file and playback was smooth, so i thought it was file specifc.
i noticed that when in windowed mode playback is smooth even in 60hz mode, but when i maximize window it have the same problem than in fullscreen exclusive.
there is some pictures for explanation.
i noticed that rendering time increased drastically when in fullscreen or maximized window but only for this file. i fixed the problem by disabling double luma resolution, i was using always and nnedi3 64 neurons, but i always used this option and no problem happened before. also all my used settings i think is in the screenshots, i am using madvr v0.88.8, nvidia gtx660ti, i5 3570k, 8gb ddr3.

another question i have is an older one in fact. when i started tweaking a little more with madvr settings read that nnedi3 improves even more the image quality. i noticed that when using this option the image gets a little glitchy with some random dots appearing, i noticed that this was discussed here. what i did to fix was using the mpc x64 with madvr, i don't know if i did it right but the glitches are gone. but my question is, in current versions there is still this problem? do you guys think that nnedi3 worth the performance hit from 4ms to 16ms rendering time?
You mentioned you have problems when running in Full Screen, but all of your screen shots are in smaller than full screen windows. Take some screen captures while in Full Screen Windowed mode with CTRL+J active, and that may be more helpful in pinpointing your issue.

Your second picture the render times are higher than your movie frame interval times. Whatever settings you were using there were too taxing for your system, and that is why it had a lack of smoothness and dropped frames on that one.

16ms is still a fairly low render reading, so you could run in that setting if you choose. I'm not a fan of NNEDI3 since it leads to the fan kicking up to high. If high GPU load and having the fan running full bore aren't a problem for you then you could use the setting if you feel its giving you any better image quality. I'm not a fan of running in that sate, and feel I can get good image quality with things like Super-BR and SuperRes instead of wasting resources on NNEDI3. Often there are trade offs that come with enabling or disabling certain features, and which fits your eye may be different from what fits some of the other peoples eyes. With one setting you may have to weigh image sharpness vs image smoothness, and in another color vibrancy vs light ringing effect. Ultimately you'll have to decide what looks better to you.
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Old 9th July 2015, 00:01   #31604  |  Link
Nevilne
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quick hard sample for super-xbr chroma ar and bilateral chroma:

start at 150 sharpness, toggle between super-xbr fast ar and slow ar.


madvr.avs
Code:
BlankClip()
Subtitle("ONE, TWO, THREE, OUR CHROMA", x=-1, y=150, size=36, spc=4, font="Microsoft Sans Serif", text_color=$aa0000, halo_color=$262626)
converttoyv12.sharpen(0.4)
you can see that fast chroma ar is superior on this image, perhaps it could be a quality/performance option for super-xbr luma/image.

Last edited by Nevilne; 11th July 2015 at 13:10.
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Old 9th July 2015, 00:10   #31605  |  Link
tFWo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbcooper View Post
Any performance improvements with AMD Catalyst 15.7 drivers?
Yes! But still slower than 13.12

Render times with same settings (NNEDI64 for Chroma)
13.12. 30.8ms
15.4. 36.3ms
15.7. 32.5ms
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Old 9th July 2015, 01:56   #31606  |  Link
ryrynz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tFWo View Post
Yes! But still slower than 13.12
But what are the clocks doing?? Can't just look at render times.
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Old 9th July 2015, 02:40   #31607  |  Link
FireFreak111
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Does madVR support Device Rotation, and if not, does madVR have any plans to support it in the future?
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Old 9th July 2015, 03:39   #31608  |  Link
Anima123
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I just tested the new version with NEDI as the image doubler, passes 10, strength 0.30, and use alternative color space checked.

The tests focused on algos, results as follow:

algo 0 show some blocky effects on image and the quality is quite low. The higher the number, more ringing can be observed around the hard-coded subtitles in the image. I would choose algo 1 if there should be only one left.

It seems that algo 1 (algo 0 not counted) is the most ringing resistant one in case more passes are applied. I am happy with the result of 10 passes and 0.30 (maybe someone like less) with algo 1.

Just hope madshi can at least keep both passes and strength, because these two parameters has some kind connection on the effect of the images. It'd be hard to achieve an optimal balance of both, why not rather leave the freedom to the users? For beginners, a reset to default values would be helpful enough.
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Old 9th July 2015, 04:00   #31609  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FireFreak111 View Post
Does madVR support Device Rotation, and if not, does madVR have any plans to support it in the future?
It does! madVR now supports rotated displays.

If you mean noticing a tablet was rotated using the Windows API, it doesn't support it now as far as I know.
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Old 9th July 2015, 09:42   #31610  |  Link
dbcooper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tFWo View Post
Yes! But still slower than 13.12

Render times with same settings (NNEDI64 for Chroma)
13.12. 30.8ms
15.4. 36.3ms
15.7. 32.5ms


Will test myself soon.
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Old 9th July 2015, 11:14   #31611  |  Link
chros
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
Wat, processing the video just runs on the normal shaders.
Processing is not decoding.
Sorry, it was my bad. Thanks for the correction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
No quality advantage, but should be produce more reliable smoothness. If the old mode works fine you, by all means use it. The new path shouldn't really be much slower, though - except maybe if you have a rather slow GPU and if your refresh rate is much higher than the movie frame rate.
Thanks for clarification, and the ongoing development!
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Old 9th July 2015, 11:45   #31612  |  Link
tFWo
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Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
But what are the clocks doing?? Can't just look at render times.
My card (270x) never had problems with downclocking.

GPU usage with 13.12 amdocl.dll on that video is constant 71%. Using 15.7 gpu usage is constant 75%. Clocks don't change with both drivers.
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Old 9th July 2015, 11:51   #31613  |  Link
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Madshi: you recommended I try bilinear chroma upscaler to try and resolve my issues with using a 3d lut on an old laptop. I mentioned I watch 1080p content on a 1080p screen. Is there a performance impact from chroma upscaling when watching 1080p at 1080p, ie if there is no upscaling?

What is the best way to read performance using the ctrl+j overlay. Render time? Or is it to use cpuz to monitor gpu and cpu load?

Last edited by SithUK; 9th July 2015 at 12:19.
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Old 9th July 2015, 12:33   #31614  |  Link
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Originally Posted by tFWo View Post
My card (270x) never had problems with downclocking.

GPU usage with 13.12 amdocl.dll on that video is constant 71%. Using 15.7 gpu usage is constant 75%. Clocks don't change with both drivers.
It's not a problem, it's a feature :P
Good to know.
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Old 9th July 2015, 13:22   #31615  |  Link
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Originally Posted by SithUK View Post
Is there a performance impact from chroma upscaling when watching 1080p at 1080p, ie if there is no upscaling?
Yes, chroma upscaling is needed on all videos where the chroma resolution is lower than the luma resolution, which is pretty much any video you're likely to encounter. Most content uses 4:2:0, which means the chroma content needs to be scaled to twice its original size to match the luma. On 1080p video, this means scaling from 960x540 to 1920x1080.
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Old 9th July 2015, 14:47   #31616  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Ver Greeneyes View Post
Yes, chroma upscaling is needed on all videos where the chroma resolution is lower than the luma resolution, which is pretty much any video you're likely to encounter. Most content uses 4:2:0, which means the chroma content needs to be scaled to twice its original size to match the luma. On 1080p video, this means scaling from 960x540 to 1920x1080.

Hmm, thats why i found super-xbr on 1080p videos on 1080p screens better than Jinc for example xD
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Old 9th July 2015, 15:05   #31617  |  Link
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Originally Posted by xabregas View Post
Hmm, thats why i found super-xbr on 1080p videos on 1080p screens better than Jinc for example xD
As I said, on my GT650m nvidia mobile card, Jinc+AR is faster than super-xbr+HQAR in v0.88.14 (super-xbr+LQAR was about the same speed) watching 1080p content on 1080p display.
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Old 9th July 2015, 15:34   #31618  |  Link
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As I said, on my GT650m nvidia mobile card, Jinc+AR is faster than super-xbr+HQAR in v0.88.14 (super-xbr+LQAR was about the same speed) watching 1080p content on 1080p display.
faster YES, but if PQ is better for me with super-xbr may jinc RIP I only get few more ms in rendering with super-xbr. With NNEDI i get 3x rendering ms if i only use 16 neurons. PQ is better ofc but not as much to justify the extra gpu wattage and burn and its summer here, so super-xbr is a very good implementation, amazing quality, less ringing than the sharpest algo usually have and rendering is not a problem

Last edited by xabregas; 9th July 2015 at 15:37.
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Old 9th July 2015, 19:23   #31619  |  Link
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Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
[...About windows 10 compatibility...] Until it's released its almost pointless looking at it. The code changes daily..
Well, it's most of all because madshi has not enough time for this. Ideally, it's the best moment to find Windows bug; developers are ready to fix things. When Release/RC status is reached, they will fix only critical stuff.
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Old 9th July 2015, 23:08   #31620  |  Link
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Is 88.16 SR with Algo 0 = 88.15 SR with default settings? I can't tell much difference between "alternative colorspace" options, but Algo 1,2,3 are blurry, while Algo 0 = sharp (good) on all sources I tried. The difference is very slight though... I tried disabling SR completely since some said that doing so is like removing dirt from the screen, but all I could notice was increased aliasing when SR was disabled.
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direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling

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