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Old 5th July 2018, 23:00   #51641  |  Link
Asmodian
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Originally Posted by mclingo View Post
I think the AMD RX 580 is a good used buy right now, £160 gets me NGU sharp very high on chroma and NGU sharp high on upscaling, sub 30ms rendering times.
It is odd to use very high for chroma but only high for image upscaling. In my testing I preferred NGU high over very high for chroma, it seems to look the same or better and uses a lot less power.

I suppose you have enough GPU power for very high for chroma but even using low for chroma upscaling you cannot use NGU very high for image upscaling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by strumf666 View Post
HDMI 1.4 is pretty limiting for 4k, 24/30hz and 8 bit color max. For HDMI 2.0 you need at least 4xx series.
Also the hardware decoders are not as good, 4K 10 bit HEVC takes a lot of CPU if you have to use software decoding.
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Old 6th July 2018, 00:52   #51642  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mclingo View Post
I think the AMD RX 580 is a good used buy right now, £160 gets me NGU sharp very high on chroma and NGU sharp high on upscaling, sub 30ms rendering times.

very pleased with that.
Save your resources and drop back to just high (chroma) The difference isn't worth it, it's quite minimal and I'm pretty picky.

Oh Asmodian beat me to it. Good man.
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Old 6th July 2018, 02:43   #51643  |  Link
huhn
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Originally Posted by strumf666 View Post
HDMI 1.4 is pretty limiting for 4k, 24/30hz and 8 bit color max. For HDMI 2.0 you need at least 4xx series.
you can do 12 bit with HDMI 1.4 at UHD
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Old 6th July 2018, 04:07   #51644  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mclingo View Post
I think the AMD RX 580 is a good used buy right now, £160 gets me NGU sharp very high on chroma and NGU sharp high on upscaling, sub 30ms rendering times.

very pleased with that.
Itís a card that could make you take up video games. With games, it sometimes outperforms the GTX 1060. Itís not surprising that it has enough power to handle madVR.
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Old 6th July 2018, 05:29   #51645  |  Link
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you can do 12 bit with HDMI 1.4 at UHD
Perhaps with crappy subsampling and at 23,967Hz. Considering a large portion of this thread is about how practically none of commercially available screens are able to properly display >8bit colors and reduced picture quality because of subsampling I would count this as irrelevant, but that is just my opinion. Oh and I almost forgot the potential for flickering when the camera is panning if the display isn't able to properly display 23,976Hz since higher refresh rate isn't possible at this settings.
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Old 6th July 2018, 05:36   #51646  |  Link
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RGB 12 bit UHD 30 HZ is the maximum that's about 9 GB of the 10GB.

flickering, LCD and refreshrate?
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Old 6th July 2018, 05:47   #51647  |  Link
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1.4 bandwithd is 8.16Gbit/s?

Find a crappy display incapable of properly displaying 23,976 and a clip with a panning scene... flickers like crazy. Then set the refresh to 60 and flickering stops.
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Old 6th July 2018, 06:02   #51648  |  Link
huhn
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it'd depends on how you look at it 8/10 encoding.
it'S 10 vs 18 or 8 vs 14.4.
sample hold displays don't flicker end of story i know what you are talking about "judder" but 60 hz doesn't fix this it's madVR fixing this issue.
and mybe it was 24/25 only.
and to be fair the HDMI spec is not crystal clear. 4:2:0 is only part of 50/60 HZ and doesn't work with lower refreshrates.
and 10 bit or higher may only work at HDMI chips with HDMI 2.0 "support" like nvidia has.
not here to promote HDMI 1.4 HDMI 2.0 is clearly better and it would be sad if this isn't the case but this doesn't change that devices try to run in a mode that has the bandwidth of HDMI 1.4.
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Old 6th July 2018, 06:12   #51649  |  Link
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Fair enough.
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Old 6th July 2018, 10:25   #51650  |  Link
mclingo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
It is odd to use very high for chroma but only high for image upscaling. In my testing I preferred NGU high over very high for chroma, it seems to look the same or better and uses a lot less power.

I suppose you have enough GPU power for very high for chroma but even using low for chroma upscaling you cannot use NGU very high for image upscaling?



Also the hardware decoders are not as good, 4K 10 bit HEVC takes a lot of CPU if you have to use software decoding.
I tired that first but it NGU very high on upscaling pushes rendering over 30ms for 1080p material, still doable i guess, I could create some profiles in MADVR but I prefer to keep things simple.

I think i'll drop to high though anyway as the card gets a tad noisy with the weather the way it is right now, it was 30degrees in my lounge last night, I could fry an egg on my HTPC !..

Thanks all for your responses.
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Old 6th July 2018, 13:56   #51651  |  Link
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Yeah I will prefer to keep max at ~30ms or so as well, otherwise things get a bit toasty in my HTPC as well as the fan speed ramping up to levels I'd rather them not be at.
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Old 6th July 2018, 23:16   #51652  |  Link
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Any, advice on MadVR / nvidia settings and versions for JVC X7500? After trying different combos of versions and settings I can't seem to find a combo that:
- Minimises Repeated Frames (eg custom modes or a nvidia version that is close)
- NVidia Settings that stick for RGB 12-Bit for both UHD@23.796 / YCbCr422 for UHD@50/60p (or just RGB 8-Bit as I only have the one UHD HDR BD @ 60p)
- Windows HDR that does not keep turning ON when the video finishes playing and you are back to the desktop

If the above can not be done, should I try HDR to SDR conversion in madVR, or... just use YCbCr422 for all resolutions, or.... ?

Currently I'm also "stuck" on madVR V92.4 (that comes bundled with JRiver) as the most recent madVR versions have a bug where Menu Item Text can be drawn off screen.... I've a 1070 on this HTPC.
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Old 7th July 2018, 00:39   #51653  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmone View Post
- NVidia Settings that stick for RGB 12-Bit for both UHD@23.796 / YCbCr422 for UHD@50/60p (or just RGB 8-Bit as I only have the one UHD HDR BD @ 60p)
Use 8-bit RGB with ordered or error diffusion dithering. High quality dithering keeps much of the data from madVR's 16 bit internal bitdepth, preventing banding and adding very little noise when converting to 8 bit. This is the highest quality option, much better than using 4:2:2.

However, this is assuming your projector does not use 4:2:2 internally. Use the http://madshi.net/madVR/ChromaRes.png. It is 1920x1080, view it at 100%, no zoom/resize.

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- Windows HDR that does not keep turning ON when the video finishes playing and you are back to the desktop
I never have any issues with this, with a Titan XP connected to a 2017 LG OLED TV. Do you ever turn it on? Leave it disabled.

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Originally Posted by jmone View Post
If the above can not be done, should I try HDR to SDR conversion in madVR, or... just use YCbCr422 for all resolutions, or.... ?
My TV works better with 8 bit input, I have more banding with 12 bit, but that is my TV's fault.

However, I would still much rather send my TV 8 bit RGB over 12 bit 4:2:2, unless it was in a mode that used 4:2:2 processing internally, even for HDR. Using 4:2:2 blurs two out of three image planes to 50% of their resolution horizontally. This damages the two chroma planes a lot. Humans do see color weirdly but this is still worse than well dithered 8 bit. The source is 4:2:0 but madVR has very good chroma upscaling, especially with a 1070.
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Old 7th July 2018, 01:01   #51654  |  Link
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Thanks but the JVC can not take 8-BIT with HDR content (you get a Purple Push over the image).
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Old 7th July 2018, 01:07   #51655  |  Link
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Does it use 4:2:2 internally if you send it 12 bit RGB?
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Old 7th July 2018, 02:02   #51656  |  Link
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You might want to wait for the next build and try HDR -> SDR. It should be available soon and there is still room to improve.
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Old 7th July 2018, 05:01   #51657  |  Link
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@Asmodian: Neither 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 appear when displaying chromares.png (nvidia set to 1080p, RGB at any bitdepth). There is some slight horizontal lines where 4:2:2 would appear.

@Warner306: I presume you are refering to the discussion over at AVS with madshi on the Madvr HDR to SDR mapping thread?
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Old 7th July 2018, 06:08   #51658  |  Link
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@Asmodian: Neither 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 appear when displaying chromares.png (nvidia set to 1080p, RGB at any bitdepth). There is some slight horizontal lines where 4:2:2 would appear.
Is that your native resolution? You need everything at its native resolution, the image in a window if necessary.
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Old 7th July 2018, 06:19   #51659  |  Link
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try to set sharpness to 50% or zero and try the image again.
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Old 7th July 2018, 07:23   #51660  |  Link
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Any, advice on MadVR / nvidia settings and versions for JVC X7500? After trying different combos of versions and settings I can't seem to find a combo that:
- Minimises Repeated Frames (eg custom modes or a nvidia version that is close)
- NVidia Settings that stick for RGB 12-Bit for both UHD@23.796 / YCbCr422 for UHD@50/60p (or just RGB 8-Bit as I only have the one UHD HDR BD @ 60p)
- Windows HDR that does not keep turning ON when the video finishes playing and you are back to the desktop

If the above can not be done, should I try HDR to SDR conversion in madVR, or... just use YCbCr422 for all resolutions, or.... ?

Currently I'm also "stuck" on madVR V92.4 (that comes bundled with JRiver) as the most recent madVR versions have a bug where Menu Item Text can be drawn off screen.... I've a 1070 on this HTPC.
  • Use 385.28 (that's the last driver that works well with the JVCs for HTPC use)
  • Use 2160p23 RGB 4:4:4 12bits at 23p for playback. The driver will automatically switch to RGB 4:4:4 8bits for 50/60p if you use 385.28 and it will stick.
  • While in another refresh rate (I use 30p), create a custom resolution with MadVR for 2160p23 using the EDID/CTA settings, that's the only thing that works with the JVC, it should give you around one hour without a frame drop/repeat at 4K23p
  • Do not use your projector at 1080p, these are NOT 1080p projectors unlike what has been suggested and you will lose a lot of MadVR's goodness if you do this. Send 2160p to the JVC (if your GPU is powerful enough to upscale in good quality to that resolution, which a 1070 should be able to do) and you'll get something like 3K (in between 2K and 4K, but significantly better than 2K thanks to eshift), especially when fed a well upscaled MadVR picture.
  • If you have a good custom curve for HDR (see the JVC Calibration thread for the RS500 etc models on AVS), you can use HDR passthrough in MadVR. Make sure you always leave HDR OFF in the OS, MadVR will switch HDR on and off automatically.
  • Or you can wait until MadVR's next build and use HDR to SDR conversion with pixel shader. It's still a work in progress but it's starting to be a viable alternative to passthrough with the JVCs. Wait until it arrives on jRiver, there is no rush to leave passthrough if you have good custom curves on your JVC.
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Last edited by Manni; 7th July 2018 at 07:30.
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