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Old 9th September 2018, 22:33   #52321  |  Link
thighhighs
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mparade
I think this is just OSD bug
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Old 9th September 2018, 23:00   #52322  |  Link
huhn
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this is not an osd bug.

the desktop still runs at 60 Hz while the GPU runs at 24 hz.
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Old 9th September 2018, 23:10   #52323  |  Link
Damien147
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Do I need to do anything else beyond setting madvr for HDR?I get the AMD HDR in stats but picture seems a bit dull in comparison with windowed vs fullscreen.
My TV has pseudo HDR(no wide color gamut and 8 bit).Am I wasting my time and convert to sdr setting is better for me?
(Windows 10,samsung ku6000,amd rx 470)
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Old 9th September 2018, 23:27   #52324  |  Link
huhn
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AMD can't do HDR in windowed mode.

use whatever you like more.

AFAIK all entry level samsung HDR TV with 60 Hz panels are native 10 bit what ever that is worth.
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Old 9th September 2018, 23:37   #52325  |  Link
thighhighs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
this is not an osd bug.

the desktop still runs at 60 Hz while the GPU runs at 24 hz.
TV switched to 60 too?
Otherwise the composition rate line can be ignored here. This not makes extra dropped frames, glitches or something else: i have same "60Hz composition rate" in FSE
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Old 9th September 2018, 23:43   #52326  |  Link
Damien147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
AMD can't do HDR in windowed mode.

use whatever you like more.

AFAIK all entry level samsung HDR TV with 60 Hz panels are native 10 bit what ever that is worth.


I suppose that in windowed I get the convert hdr to sdr setting.I guess it's the pseudo hdr and lack of WCG that makes the picture more dull.
Thank you.
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Old 10th September 2018, 00:11   #52327  |  Link
Manni
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[EDIT: unfortunately scratch that, after further tests the custom res doesn't stick, so I'm back to 385.28]

Good news for JVC owners with nVidia, I think I might finally be able to upgrade from 385.28 to a more recent driver, specifically 399.07 (with Win 10 build 1803). The last driver I tested before that was 398.36, so some version(s) in between might work as well [EDIT: with Win10 1803, all the recent versions of nVidia drivers break compatibility with Asio4All, including those that fixed it such as 398.11 and 398.36. I had to go back al;l the way to 385.28 to get Asio4all to work. FlexAsio works fine with all versions].

Most of the bugs seem to be fixed (especially the borked levels in 12bits). I was able to keep my usual RGB Full GPU, limited MadVR, Limited JVC configuration. All at 12bits 4:4:4 at 23p, 8bits 4:4:4 at 50/60p. Levels were correct both in HDR and SDR.
Main benefit (apart from obvious gaming benefits): 13mn between frame drop/repeat in 3D (1080p23FP), vs 3mn between a frame drop/repeat pre 39x.xx.
Main drawback: they have managed to break Asio4All support again (it had been broken in 390.xx, and fixed in 398.xx), but the improvement in 3D is well worth the compromise, and FlexAsio seems to be working fine, at least with REW. Not sure which exact version broke it again, but it's after 398.36.
Main warning: in order to apply the usual custom mode created by MadVR using the EDID/CTA settings, I had to enable it manually in the nVidia CP afterwards, otherwise it doesn't show up in the list of available modes. Once enabled, it seems to stick and gives me the usual 50mn to 3 hours between a frame drop/repeat in 2D at 4K23, which I can live with. I haven’t tested 1080p.
Main annoyance: you still have to set the bit depth to 12bits BEFORE selecting the custom res. Once the custom res is selected, bit depth is locked to 8bits and displays as such, but 12bits is still applied internally, at least at 30p and below. Above 30p, the drivers switches to 8bits automatically.

I'll report back after a longer test, but having tested 3D (in FSE mode), HDR (pixel shader) and SDR briefly (in 10bits full screen windowed), all seemed fine (although significantly improved in 3D).

There might still be some issues with JVC passthrough, but as I don't use it anymore I haven't tested that.

Hopefully they'll fix Asio4All again soon, without breaking anything else. It would be nice to be able to keep a current driver. 385.28 started to feel a bit long in the tooth, but was still working perfectly, including with HDR, the main drawback being the worse 3D performance.

Detailed rig and settings in sig below.
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MPC-BE/LAV/MadVR/jRiver/MyMovies V5.25PR2
Denon X8500H>HD Fury Maestro>JVC RS2000

Last edited by Manni; 10th September 2018 at 19:42.
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Old 10th September 2018, 02:02   #52328  |  Link
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Thanks Manni - I'll test as well
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Old 10th September 2018, 07:46   #52329  |  Link
Sunset1982
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LigH View Post
you are right, missed a word...
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Old 10th September 2018, 10:23   #52330  |  Link
Manni
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Slight OT but re my post above about 399.07 and Asio4All, it looks like the compatibility with Asio4All is broken with all recent nVidia drivers, including 398.11 and 398.36 which did fix the issue when I tested them at the time with a former build of Windows.
So this compatibility issue with Asio4all might not only be due to the driver, but also to a combination with the O.S. build. If I go back to my trusted 385,28, Asio4all works again fine, including on the latest 1803 build. Flexasio works with all drivers, all OS versions, at least with REW, so is a good workaround if you want to use a more recent version than 385.28 with the latest OS build.
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Denon X8500H>HD Fury Maestro>JVC RS2000
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Old 10th September 2018, 10:36   #52331  |  Link
nevcairiel
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Honestly this smells more like an issue with ASIO4ALL, since its the only application affected and its not really that special (its basically an ordinary application that for some reason cannot see your audio device anylonger), did you ever report it to them to be fixed?
I tried to check if they got other reports of this, but their support forums seem to be down, so there is that. Maybe an alternative product is more then just a work-around at this point.
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Old 10th September 2018, 10:52   #52332  |  Link
huhn
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i still wonder how nvidia can break something they don't support.
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Old 10th September 2018, 10:54   #52333  |  Link
jmone
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@Manni - Yup 399.07 works as you said.... still it is all a PITA, esp with HDR on UHD HFR material on the JVC. Looking forward to just using madVR to map HDR to SDR and just use 8-Bit.
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Old 10th September 2018, 10:56   #52334  |  Link
Manni
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Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
Honestly this smells more like an issue with ASIO4ALL, since its the only application affected and its not really that special (its basically an ordinary application that for some reason cannot see your audio device anylonger), did you ever report it to them to be fixed?
I tried to check if they got other reports of this, but their support forums seem to be down, so there is that. Maybe an alternative product is more then just a work-around at this point.
As I said, it was broken, got fixed (with the nVidia driver, Asio4all remained the same version), is now broken again. There is definitely an issue with Asio4All, and I indicated that FlexAsio is a workaround, though not a replacement because it has some limitations.

Yes I reported it (both times). They have an email address to report issues on their website.
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MPC-BE/LAV/MadVR/jRiver/MyMovies V5.25PR2
Denon X8500H>HD Fury Maestro>JVC RS2000

Last edited by Manni; 10th September 2018 at 12:41.
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Old 10th September 2018, 11:01   #52335  |  Link
Manni
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Originally Posted by jmone View Post
@Manni - Yup 399.07 works as you said.... still it is all a PITA, esp with HDR on UHD HFR material on the JVC. Looking forward to just using madVR to map HDR to SDR and just use 8-Bit.
As I said, I didn't test passthough as I only use pixel shader now. It seems to be working fine in 10bits with the driver set to 12bits, so not sure why you'd want to use 8bits, at least at 23p.

There is a new public build of MadVR coming up, and at least for JVC users I highly recommend to use HDR to SDR with pixel shader. Far better HDR than using passthrough on the JVCs, so nothing to lose except the auto calibration switch from the Vertex if you have one, as MadVR isn't able yet to report SDR BT2020 or SDR DCI-P3 in the HDMI stream to let the Vertex know what is coming out. Still, the PQ improvement is now well worth losing this convenience. The main drawback is to have to select manually the correct calibration user mode.

Hopefully Madshi will as some point be able to find a custom API to output the HDMI metadata for SDR, the way a standalone player does. Or will get the macro commands to work reliably with the JVCs.
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MPC-BE/LAV/MadVR/jRiver/MyMovies V5.25PR2
Denon X8500H>HD Fury Maestro>JVC RS2000

Last edited by Manni; 10th September 2018 at 11:03.
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Old 10th September 2018, 11:59   #52336  |  Link
jmone
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I use my HTPC / JVC with a mix of media, BD / UHD with HDR / TV / Gaming etc and at frame rates from 23.976 to 59.94. If I want HDR working at 50/59.94 the HDMI limit will be 8-Bit at 4:4:4. I "presume" that once the HDR -> SDR work is done, I can just set my bit depth to 8-Bit and let madVR do the HDR -> SDR for content with HDR and like the non HDR material it should all "just work" with JVC at all frame rates..... or am I missing something that needs higher than 8-Bit?
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Old 10th September 2018, 12:01   #52337  |  Link
huhn
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what's wrong/limitation with running in native gamut and letting a 3D LUT take care of it?

if you want the "best" PQ a 3d lut is the way to go.
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Old 10th September 2018, 12:01   #52338  |  Link
huhn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmone View Post
I use my HTPC / JVC with a mix of media, BD / UHD with HDR / TV / Gaming etc and at frame rates from 23.976 to 59.94. If I want HDR working at 50/59.94 the HDMI limit will be 8-Bit at 4:4:4. I "presume" that once the HDR -> SDR work is done, I can just set my bit depth to 8-Bit and let madVR do the HDR -> SDR for content with HDR and like the non HDR material it should all "just work" with JVC at all frame rates..... or am I missing something that needs higher than 8-Bit?
you are missing nothing.
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Old 10th September 2018, 12:16   #52339  |  Link
Manni
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmone View Post
I use my HTPC / JVC with a mix of media, BD / UHD with HDR / TV / Gaming etc and at frame rates from 23.976 to 59.94. If I want HDR working at 50/59.94 the HDMI limit will be 8-Bit at 4:4:4. I "presume" that once the HDR -> SDR work is done, I can just set my bit depth to 8-Bit and let madVR do the HDR -> SDR for content with HDR and like the non HDR material it should all "just work" with JVC at all frame rates..... or am I missing something that needs higher than 8-Bit?
UHD Bluray content is 10bits, so while you can dither it to 8bits and get very good results, why not make the most of the fact that the JVCs are native 12bits panels from input to panel and ask MadVR to dither to 10bits instead?

The drivers switches automatically between RGB 4:4:4 12bits 23p (for video content) and RGB 4:4:4 8bits 60p for 60p video or games, so why not take advantage of this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
what's wrong/limitation with running in native gamut and letting a 3D LUT take care of it?

if you want the "best" PQ a 3d lut is the way to go.
Projectors lose a lot of native contrast when you open the iris to get more brightness. So you're leaving A LOT of performance if you use the same native gamut for calibrating both HDR and SDR.

If you use your HDR calibration (say DCI-P3 with the P3 filter on for the wider gamut and the iris fully open to get max brightness for HDR), the SDR calibration is non-optimal (with raised black levels and about half of the native contrast you could get).

Plus in that case you get too much brightness for SDR in a dedicated room, so you have to either use a 3D LUT that limits the brightness (hence kills your contrast) or get blinded by a reference white at 100nits or more for SDR, which is about twice as much as what we're aiming for in a dedicated room.

For example, in my case I get around 100nits with the iris fully open in DCI-P3, and only around 40,000:1 on.off. The black floor is also raised.

If I use this calibration for HDR, I get blinded with 100nits reference white, and I leave a lot of on/off and black levels on the table.

With my SDR calibration, I aim for 50nits reference white, I lower the iris down to -10, it gives me double native on/off contrast (around 80,000:1) and a far better black floor.

I do use a 3D LUT for each calibration, but they cannot apply to the same baseline without losing a lot of performance in one mode or the other.
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Win10 Pro x64 b1809 MCE
i7 3770K@4.0Ghz 16Gb@2.18Ghz EVGA GTX 1080 Ti SC2 11Gb@2GHz 398.11 RGB Full 8bits
MPC-BE/LAV/MadVR/jRiver/MyMovies V5.25PR2
Denon X8500H>HD Fury Maestro>JVC RS2000

Last edited by Manni; 10th September 2018 at 12:52.
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Old 10th September 2018, 12:26   #52340  |  Link
huhn
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sorry for asking a question... seriously... sorry that i wanted to know why? my mistake i will not do it again and die in ignorance.
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