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Old 10th January 2019, 14:28   #54201  |  Link
mclingo
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ah right, there is nothing you can do on the TV itself to correct the scaling, have you tried this since replacing the card?
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Old 10th January 2019, 15:03   #54202  |  Link
glc650
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ah right, there is nothing you can do on the TV itself to correct the scaling, have you tried this since replacing the card?
Tried what since replacing the card?
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Old 10th January 2019, 15:27   #54203  |  Link
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have you looked into why your HTPC image isnt fitting on your TV correctly, is it a driver issue on your PC or does the TV had an odd quirk which means it cannot show the aspect ratio correctly?, I'm guessing you've already cycled through all the aspect ratios options on the TV as you've no doubt had it a number of years now.
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Old 10th January 2019, 15:57   #54204  |  Link
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@MADSHI - I wonder if you could maybe create a benchmark tool for MADVR, be interesting for people to properly compare card stats.
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Old 10th January 2019, 16:26   #54205  |  Link
Warner306
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the brightness level of the none compressed parts match at gamma 2.2.

so if you want the correct brightness levels you set this screen is already calibrated to your screens response where unlike SDR madVR will automatic change your "gamma" for HDR sources to 2.2.

as i said before i'm not a friend of this inconsistent behaviour between HDR and SDR.
I know one user was getting what looked like correct HDR gamma tracking at 2.20 with madVR set to clipping. But I sent that person a black clipping pattern and they were clipping some black. So I'm not sure if 2.20 is "correctly" following the PQ curve in all circumstances.

None of the SDR gamma curves have equal response to the original PQ curve:

Image: Gamma 2.20 vs. PQ ST.2084

I would assume madVR would have to tell the display to flash the correct amount of voltage to get a PQ value from an SDR gamma curve and use all kinds of dithering to fill in all of the extra shades of gray required at the low end of the curve.

When tone mapping, changing the target nits also radically changes the perceived gamma, so there is more to the gamma response than just choosing 2.20 or 2.40. It is more customizable than that. As long as you can see reference black, you can make the image darker or brighter as required to get a smooth transition from dark to light. The original tone curve will be compressed either way.

I think there are some who seem to be getting an accurate image with both 2.20 and 2.40. And there are some that I know of that get some black crush when madVR is set to 2.20. You have to test black clipping or you may notice any crush.
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Old 10th January 2019, 16:57   #54206  |  Link
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the thing is actually pretty simple. when madVR tone maps to SDR it will map to 2.2 and there is nothing wrong with that you have to choice a gamma. the problem i have now start when you are using gamma processing HDR can go totally nuts and tries to reach "some" gamma and that's not a good thing. the whole gamma matching with the TV makes total sense but one totally normal setting in it will deny this even when properly used for SDR content and the reason for this is simple the point when madVR applys gamma correction is done at two different spot instead of doing it in one spot different for HDR and SDR.

so if you have a properly 3D LUT calibrated screen it doesn't matter if you switch between 2.4 or 2.2 it will not clip. that'S not my problem anyway here. and even if your screen starts clipping for what ever reason that doesn't mean the 2.2 target is incorrect.
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Old 10th January 2019, 17:06   #54207  |  Link
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2.20 was simply too dark to watch, even if the display was set to 2.20. Near black detail matters a lot when watching HDR content because the image is being tone mapped. SDR content is currently mastered at 2.40 on the most popular mastering displays and then processed to 2.20 by the display. I found the same combination does still work with HDR, even if it isn't considered correct.
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Old 10th January 2019, 17:17   #54208  |  Link
huhn
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then you shouldn't have a problem with this:
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move it to color & gamma by adding a HDR-SDR gamma processing that is ticked by default with pure gamma curve 2.20 and a warning to not change it.
this makes sure you can still properly gamma process SDR and don't ruin HDR with this option.
lying to madVR what your display is really calibrated to to get a different result just for HDR is not optimal.

using a gamma processing option to get mathematical incorrect results is totally fine by me it' the users choice even if it is just used for the same reason we use different gammas for SDR to make dark part better visible for example.
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Old 10th January 2019, 17:35   #54209  |  Link
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2.20 was simply too dark to watch, even if the display was set to 2.20. Near black detail matters a lot when watching HDR content because the image is being tone mapped. SDR content is currently mastered at 2.40 on the most popular mastering displays and then processed to 2.20 by the display. I found the same combination does still work with HDR, even if it isn't considered correct.
could that not just be the display ?

which probe are you using. My i1d3 works well, but my spyder5 messes up dark tones and causes crush.
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Old 10th January 2019, 20:59   #54210  |  Link
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@MADSHI - I wonder if you could maybe create a benchmark tool for MADVR, be interesting for people to properly compare card stats.
Been asked many multiple times over the years.
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Old 10th January 2019, 21:06   #54211  |  Link
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Been asked many multiple times over the years.
Madshi either works on a tool for demo'n e-peen, OR, he makes Highlight recovery even better..

Clearly, highlight recovery comes first..
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Old 10th January 2019, 23:01   #54212  |  Link
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It's just as he's always said, buy the best card you can afford. ^_^ Performance wise it's Nvidia over AMD.
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Old 10th January 2019, 23:19   #54213  |  Link
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where that is true, with amd cards being so cheap its hard to know how close they are price vs performance, do you get mid range nvidia or a high end amd, its not that simple anymore unless money is no object.
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Old 10th January 2019, 23:21   #54214  |  Link
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It's just as he's always said, buy the best card you can afford. ^_^ Performance wise it's Nvidia over AMD.
I thought madshi ran ATI, what does Nvidia boards have that madvr makes better use of..
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Old 11th January 2019, 02:03   #54215  |  Link
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Something about NGU runs much better on Nvidia GPUs...
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Old 11th January 2019, 03:30   #54216  |  Link
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where that is true, with amd cards being so cheap its hard to know how close they are price vs performance, do you get mid range nvidia or a high end amd, its not that simple anymore unless money is no object.
I just bought a used rx 580 $135, after the amd vega 7 announcement.

Since they haven't announced any mid-range product, there's nothing to hold out for this year.. Might as well get in on the Used Miner cards while they're still available.
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Old 11th January 2019, 04:12   #54217  |  Link
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the price differenve of a used 1060 and a used RX 580 is 30-40 bucks. and the performance difference using NGU and only NGU related scaler is about 100%-200% faster in favour of nvidia.

he said a year or longer ago that he had a 1070 and a 560 or 460.

pretty sure he has a RTX cards now to play around with the tensor core.
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Old 11th January 2019, 05:21   #54218  |  Link
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the price differenve of a used 1060 and a used RX 580 is 30-40 bucks. and the performance difference using NGU and only NGU related scaler is about 100%-200% faster in favour of nvidia.

he said a year or longer ago that he had a 1070 and a 560 or 460.

pretty sure he has a RTX cards now to play around with the tensor core.
I have a 1060 in my kitchen pc..

The used 1060 on ebay looked slightly more raggedy than the used 580, so I went with 580.. This is for my basement pc.
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Old 11th January 2019, 11:07   #54219  |  Link
mclingo
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i'm guessing MADVR is generally more optimized for NVIDIA, it certainly feels that way and MADSHI has closer links with NVIDIA. It would be nice if he could take another look at polaris and see if he can do anything with it, given the number of AMD ex mining cards out there getting snapped up and great prices,

But I'm guessing his radar is already pretty full.
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Old 11th January 2019, 11:20   #54220  |  Link
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the market share of polaris cards is close to none existing and this will not change.
https://store.steampowered.com/hwsur...lcome-to-Steam

and NGU runs great on none polaris card so how can he optimize for nvidia all run the same shader.

nnedi3 runs faster on AMD so he optimizes more for AMD? what is this reasoning...
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