Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > Hardware & Software > Software players

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 19th February 2019, 14:29   #54841  |  Link
madjock
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldpainlesskodi View Post
1080p material (and below) scaled to 4k - NGU sharp Luma produces very different black levels, hence sharing the link for people to test on their setup, if they want to.
Ah ok but better or worse, tried NGU and I can not see a difference tbh, the numbers stayed the same as far as I can tell.
__________________
Windows 10-1909 | i5-3570k | GTX 1070 Windforce OC Rev2 8GB : 430.64 | Yamaha RX-V377 | Philips 65PUS6703 - 65"
madjock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th February 2019, 14:31   #54842  |  Link
oldpainlesskodi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by madjock View Post
Ah ok but better or worse, tried NGU and I can not see a difference tbh, the numbers stayed the same as far as I can tell.
There are about 3 points difference on my rig, so I seem to be getting better blacks with Jinc, again, could just be my setup.

Update- compared both again on the fly again and the difference is way more that 3 on the black clipping test.
__________________
Sapphire RX 5700 XT (19.9.2) Ryzen 7 3700x, PRIME X570-Pro, Win 10 x64 (1903), Silverstone LC13B-E, Onkyo TX-NR686, Samsung UE55KS8000, Mission M35i speakers, Kodi Dsplayer 17.6 X64

Last edited by oldpainlesskodi; 19th February 2019 at 14:40.
oldpainlesskodi is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 19th February 2019, 14:55   #54843  |  Link
madjock
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldpainlesskodi View Post
There are about 3 points difference on my rig, so I seem to be getting better blacks with Jinc, again, could just be my setup.

Update- compared both again on the fly again and the difference is way more that 3 on the black clipping test.
This is what I get

https://imgur.com/a/S6KyraL
__________________
Windows 10-1909 | i5-3570k | GTX 1070 Windforce OC Rev2 8GB : 430.64 | Yamaha RX-V377 | Philips 65PUS6703 - 65"
madjock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th February 2019, 15:01   #54844  |  Link
oldpainlesskodi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by madjock View Post
This is what I get

https://imgur.com/a/S6KyraL
Do you get any difference between NGU and Jinc on the clipping test at 23p (upscaling Luma to 4k)? My chain is Full-Full-Full RGB Range.
__________________
Sapphire RX 5700 XT (19.9.2) Ryzen 7 3700x, PRIME X570-Pro, Win 10 x64 (1903), Silverstone LC13B-E, Onkyo TX-NR686, Samsung UE55KS8000, Mission M35i speakers, Kodi Dsplayer 17.6 X64

Last edited by oldpainlesskodi; 19th February 2019 at 15:10.
oldpainlesskodi is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 19th February 2019, 15:10   #54845  |  Link
madjock
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldpainlesskodi View Post
Do you get any difference between NGU and Jinc on the clipping test at 23p (upscaling Luma to 4k)?
No both look the same to me.

Yeah all on Full here as well.

I would have thought more would have mentioned in the past, maybe others can confirm.
__________________
Windows 10-1909 | i5-3570k | GTX 1070 Windforce OC Rev2 8GB : 430.64 | Yamaha RX-V377 | Philips 65PUS6703 - 65"

Last edited by madjock; 19th February 2019 at 15:17.
madjock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th February 2019, 15:17   #54846  |  Link
oldpainlesskodi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by madjock View Post
No both look the same to me.
Odd. Ok, thanks for looking anyway.
__________________
Sapphire RX 5700 XT (19.9.2) Ryzen 7 3700x, PRIME X570-Pro, Win 10 x64 (1903), Silverstone LC13B-E, Onkyo TX-NR686, Samsung UE55KS8000, Mission M35i speakers, Kodi Dsplayer 17.6 X64
oldpainlesskodi is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 19th February 2019, 15:36   #54847  |  Link
tp4tissue
Registered User
 
tp4tissue's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 408
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldpainlesskodi View Post
Odd. Ok, thanks for looking anyway.
oldpainlesskodi, what did you calibrate your monitor with, I had similar black lvl problems when I used a spyder5, I've since switched to i1dp, and black lvl issues are gone.
__________________
Ghetto | 2500k 5Ghz
tp4tissue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th February 2019, 15:37   #54848  |  Link
tp4tissue
Registered User
 
tp4tissue's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 408
Quote:
Originally Posted by ashlar42 View Post
Yeah, thanks to you and nevcariel I arrived at that product... what can I say? I think your forecast of three years is wildly optimistic. But I obviously hope you are right.
China moves FAST.. and this is not all new tooling like the development of OLED.

It's all done on Existing va/ips- panel machines.

20,000:1, here we come..

(TBH, 5000:1 VA already looks pretty good, unless the room is pitch black)
__________________
Ghetto | 2500k 5Ghz
tp4tissue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th February 2019, 15:40   #54849  |  Link
oldpainlesskodi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by tp4tissue View Post
oldpainlesskodi, what did you calibrate your monitor with, I had similar black lvl problems when I used a spyder5, I've since switched to i1dp, and black lvl issues are gone.
A dark room, my eyes, and, lots of coffee....lots of coffee lol.

It's not so much which one is correct, but with the same TV settings, I get very different Black levels between NGU and Jinc.
__________________
Sapphire RX 5700 XT (19.9.2) Ryzen 7 3700x, PRIME X570-Pro, Win 10 x64 (1903), Silverstone LC13B-E, Onkyo TX-NR686, Samsung UE55KS8000, Mission M35i speakers, Kodi Dsplayer 17.6 X64
oldpainlesskodi is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 19th February 2019, 16:47   #54850  |  Link
alexnt
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 25
Does any one use madvr with amd?? If so what is the usage of cpu and gpu(in tools like core temp and gpuz, not in task manager). I believe that cpu takes an amount of load from the gpu in decoding and so multiplier never goes under x35. Gpu has an amount of load but not that much as I remember some time ago. Gpu clock is aroung 500mhz and cpu 3500 when playing a movie. I believe this is weird.
alexnt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th February 2019, 17:07   #54851  |  Link
madjock
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexnt View Post
Does any one use madvr with amd?? If so what is the usage of cpu and gpu(in tools like core temp and gpuz, not in task manager). I believe that cpu takes an amount of load from the gpu in decoding and so multiplier never goes under x35. Gpu has an amount of load but not that much as I remember some time ago. Gpu clock is aroung 500mhz and cpu 3500 when playing a movie. I believe this is weird.
Does playing a video without madVR not do the same thing ?

Your Core Temp is a little out of date ?

You -> Version 1.0 RC8 - 21st February, 2016
Now - Version 1.13 - 8th January, 2019

You also had Opera/Firefox and Skype open in the screenshot, my multiplier is up at 38x and I have nothing open, its the load more than the multiplier as I am on High Performance so I would assume the CPU will kick in quicker. but I do not think all the load you showed was from madVR. It does not share loads anyway, if the GPU is selected it will do all the work.

Task Manager will show you where the load is going.
__________________
Windows 10-1909 | i5-3570k | GTX 1070 Windforce OC Rev2 8GB : 430.64 | Yamaha RX-V377 | Philips 65PUS6703 - 65"

Last edited by madjock; 19th February 2019 at 17:24.
madjock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th February 2019, 19:27   #54852  |  Link
el Filou
Registered User
 
el Filou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 548
Calibration test patterns are not the ideal tool to test the differences between upscalers tbh.
Is that black level difference between Jinc and NGU visible in real scenes?

Edit: regarding that new LCD tech, I'll believe it when I see it in mass production at affordable prices. The liquid crystals in the subpixels are already a light modulation layer, so what are they doing here? Adding another layer of liquid crystals on top? Or is it another tech? If it's another tech, why don't they just replace the existing liquid crystals in the subpixels with that new tech?
That just sounds like throwing brute force at a problem and it risks making LCD's other problems (off-axis viewing, response time) worse. It also could end up consuming more power than OLED which would be funny. I think this tech is bound to be limited to professional displays like medical and studio mastering.
__________________
HTPC: Windows 10 1809, MediaPortal 1, LAV Filters, ReClock, madVR. DVB-C TV, Panasonic GT60, 6.0 speakers Denon 2310, Core 2 Duo E7400, GeForce 1050 Ti

Last edited by el Filou; 19th February 2019 at 19:38.
el Filou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th February 2019, 20:59   #54853  |  Link
tp4tissue
Registered User
 
tp4tissue's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 408
Quote:
Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
Calibration test patterns are not the ideal tool to test the differences between upscalers tbh.
Is that black level difference between Jinc and NGU visible in real scenes?

Edit: regarding that new LCD tech, I'll believe it when I see it in mass production at affordable prices. The liquid crystals in the subpixels are already a light modulation layer, so what are they doing here? Adding another layer of liquid crystals on top? Or is it another tech? If it's another tech, why don't they just replace the existing liquid crystals in the subpixels with that new tech?
That just sounds like throwing brute force at a problem and it risks making LCD's other problems (off-axis viewing, response time) worse. It also could end up consuming more power than OLED which would be funny. I think this tech is bound to be limited to professional displays like medical and studio mastering.
That's exactly what it is, it's a non color layer beneath the top color layer.

That's why it's NOT new tech, and why it can be implemented rapidly.

Using existing tech.

Not limited to medical/studio, it's already been demoed at ces.
__________________
Ghetto | 2500k 5Ghz
tp4tissue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th February 2019, 21:12   #54854  |  Link
alexnt
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by madjock View Post
Does playing a video without madVR not do the same thing ?

Your Core Temp is a little out of date ?

You -> Version 1.0 RC8 - 21st February, 2016
Now - Version 1.13 - 8th January, 2019

You also had Opera/Firefox and Skype open in the screenshot, my multiplier is up at 38x and I have nothing open, its the load more than the multiplier as I am on High Performance so I would assume the CPU will kick in quicker. but I do not think all the load you showed was from madVR. It does not share loads anyway, if the GPU is selected it will do all the work.

Task Manager will show you where the load is going.
I forgot to mention that my brother's rig with a 4670k(stock) and 660ti and similar madvr settings has not the same issue. Gpu clock stays over 1000mhz and multi goes down to x12.


You can have a look at the video
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5uhhtk2zl0...91407.mp4?dl=0

Browsers are closed and skype too.
Gpu clock goes over 900mhz when movie starts and then falls.
The freezing is due to fullscreen exclusive. I never had this issue in the past but this is not a problem, I turn the option off.
As you can see cpu is around 30% in task manager but in coretemp it reaches 60-70-80% sometimes(this dowsn't show in this video) and gpu clock is not raising when mpc window gets bigger or even fullscreen.


Sorry for the video, it needs rotation.

https://postimg.cc/Js7C5n6c (noticed 2 instances of madvr?)

https://postimg.cc/vDdY6QsX (downloaded hevc 265 sample - lock cpu and gpu clocks)

https://postimg.cc/VrP8MF35 (same video as above 81% on core2 ??? madvr is gpu render)

Last edited by alexnt; 19th February 2019 at 21:43.
alexnt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th February 2019, 21:51   #54855  |  Link
madjock
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexnt View Post
I forgot to mention that my brother's rig with a 4670k(stock) and 660ti and similar madvr settings has not the same issue. Gpu clock stays over 1000mhz and multi goes down to x12.


You can have a look at the video
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5uhhtk2zl0...91407.mp4?dl=0

Browsers are closed and skype too.
Gpu clock goes over 900mhz when movie starts and then falls.
The freezing is due to fullscreen exclusive. I never had this issue in the past but this is not a problem, I turn the option off.
As you can see cpu is around 30% in task manager but in coretemp it reaches 60-70-80% sometimes(this dowsn't show in this video) and gpu clock is not raising when mpc window gets bigger or even fullscreen.


Sorry for the video, it needs rotation.

https://postimg.cc/Js7C5n6c (noticed 2 instances of madvr?)

https://postimg.cc/vDdY6QsX (downloaded hevc 265 sample - lock cpu and gpu clocks)

https://postimg.cc/VrP8MF35 (same video as above 81% on core2 ??? madvr is gpu render)
Something strange with your setup, when I run a video in MPC-BE (maybe try that instead of HC), I dont even see a madVR in task manager.

Post a picture of your LAV Video settings as well please.
__________________
Windows 10-1909 | i5-3570k | GTX 1070 Windforce OC Rev2 8GB : 430.64 | Yamaha RX-V377 | Philips 65PUS6703 - 65"
madjock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th February 2019, 22:04   #54856  |  Link
ashlar42
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by tp4tissue View Post
Not limited to medical/studio, it's already been demoed at ces.
As far as I understand, this is available in a couple of professional monitors at $20,000+ in smaller than 40" sizes.
As for "it's been demoed at CES", CLEDIS was demoed at CES and it went nowhere. There's serious hurdles to overcome to get to mass market in consumer sizes. But again: I wish you are right and we'll be able to buy perfect TVs in a couple of years.
ashlar42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th February 2019, 22:12   #54857  |  Link
alexnt
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by madjock View Post
Something strange with your setup, when I run a video in MPC-BE (maybe try that instead of HC), I dont even see a madVR in task manager.

Post a picture of your LAV Video settings as well please.
https://postimg.cc/DWS2T0Kd

the 2nd instance in task manager is when fullxscreen an back to window

same with mpc be

Last edited by alexnt; 19th February 2019 at 22:20.
alexnt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th February 2019, 22:59   #54858  |  Link
tp4tissue
Registered User
 
tp4tissue's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 408
Guys, I have a question about -Different LUTs-

If I want to use a gamma 2.4 (SDR) lut only for SDR material

and a gamma 2.2 lut for the (HDR -> SDR) material. <as recommended>


Is the only thing I have to do is put the gamma 2.4 (SDR) lut in the Rec709 lut box

and then put the gamma 2.2 (SDR) lut in the Rec2020 lut box

Right now, both my luts 2.2 and 2.4 were generated with source colorspace as rec709.

Does that work, or do I have to create a different gamma 2.2 lut with rec2020 as source colorspace in Dispcal.. ?

Do I need the following setting vv image below.

https://imgur.com/a/Vv7tLxy
__________________
Ghetto | 2500k 5Ghz

Last edited by tp4tissue; 19th February 2019 at 23:02.
tp4tissue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th February 2019, 23:07   #54859  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 5,977
you can load different LUT using profiles.
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th February 2019, 23:09   #54860  |  Link
tp4tissue
Registered User
 
tp4tissue's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 408
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexnt View Post
I forgot to mention that my brother's rig with a 4670k(stock) and 660ti and similar madvr settings has not the same issue. Gpu clock stays over 1000mhz and multi goes down to x12.


You can have a look at the video
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5uhhtk2zl0...91407.mp4?dl=0

Browsers are closed and skype too.
Gpu clock goes over 900mhz when movie starts and then falls.
The freezing is due to fullscreen exclusive. I never had this issue in the past but this is not a problem, I turn the option off.
As you can see cpu is around 30% in task manager but in coretemp it reaches 60-70-80% sometimes(this dowsn't show in this video) and gpu clock is not raising when mpc window gets bigger or even fullscreen.


Sorry for the video, it needs rotation.

https://postimg.cc/Js7C5n6c (noticed 2 instances of madvr?)

https://postimg.cc/vDdY6QsX (downloaded hevc 265 sample - lock cpu and gpu clocks)

https://postimg.cc/VrP8MF35 (same video as above 81% on core2 ??? madvr is gpu render)

I don't understand why you think something may be going wrong.

Whatever is happening isn't some trick that's eating your CPU cycles for no reason. However many CPU cycles is taken, that's the correct amount necessary to do what you've asked the computer to do.

There is no process virus here stealing CPU cycles.

Different videos, Different SEGMENT of the SAME VIDEO, different CPUs, different Graphics cards will ALL TOGETHER, exhibit Different quantities of processing consumption, You're not comparing apples to apples.

Between fullscreen and windowed, full screen scales luma through ngu, windowed does not.

As for GPU clock Not going up higher, I don't think it needs to, because that is a very low bitrate file and you're not upscaling it by very much.

For the CPU load change, Check your cpu in HWmonitor, I'm not sure, but see if all cores are clocked to the same frequency, maybe on the windowed smaller screen mode, some cores are clocked lower, so it represents higher % of utilization during that moment.
__________________
Ghetto | 2500k 5Ghz

Last edited by tp4tissue; 19th February 2019 at 23:38.
tp4tissue is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:26.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.