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Old 12th May 2019, 16:41   #56221  |  Link
el Filou
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Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post
Preserved in most cases, yes.
I watch UHD movies downscaled to 1080p tone mapped to 200 nits with madVR, but even with downscaling I've noticed that film grain/digital noise is much less aesthetically pleasing than in any 1080 Blu-ray I've seen. Don't know if it's because of HDR or the better source definition or something else but it looks more like artifacts than grain or camera read noise (which usually doesn't bother me).
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AVX2 is very important for decoding and gives serious IPC gains and is used a lot in the past years: [link]
But if you're using GPU decode for the codecs that are supported now, then this would only be useful for AV1 while there is no fixed function hardware support. If it will be really useful or not all depends on how often you upgrade your GPU.
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Old 12th May 2019, 16:56   #56222  |  Link
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Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
I watch UHD movies downscaled to 1080p tone mapped to 200 nits with madVR, but even with downscaling I've noticed that film grain/digital noise is much less aesthetically pleasing than in any 1080 Blu-ray I've seen.
I agree UHD's film grain is eyes-scratching. When madshi returns, we should ask him about it.
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Old 12th May 2019, 18:25   #56223  |  Link
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The CPU wasn't for madvr. My 3770k machine developed a bad Mobo and the whole machine had to be upgraded. And I don't like upgrading often so I tend to go all out when I do. I completely agree that the 9900k is overkill for madvr.
I also have a 3770K and the motherboard (Asus P8P-67 Pro) is on its last leg. The only thing preventing me from upgrading it as long as it doesn't die is that I'm waiting for PCI-E 4.0 or 5.0, to future-proof my upgrade a bit more.

I'm like you, I don't upgrade my mobo/chassis very often. I built this system in 2011 and I have upgraded many components since (RAM, SSD, CPU, GPU). The mobo has been rock solid apart from a few SATA and USB ports disintegrating over time.

Hopefully it will hold until I can get a MOBO with a PCI-E standard for the next 10 years, possibly with a GPU with HDMI 2.1...

It's still not a bottleneck for madVR and my 1080ti, so fingers crossed it will last a bit longer...
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Old 12th May 2019, 18:35   #56224  |  Link
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I'd been putting this upgrade off a while. The machine has had stability issues for a couple years now and the usual troubleshooting did not determine the issue. I even put it in a new case/power supply and the issues continued. Turns out it was an intermittently bad DIMM slot causing random (and I mean RANDOM) reboots under medium and heavy loads. Super hard to diagnose. At that point it became imperative to replace the mobo, cpu, and ram. The upgrade was planned a year ago but I got distracted with my UHD upgrade first, and then getting laid off 7 months ago. But now that I have a new job I wanted to get this thing fixed and upgraded first thing. I think I built a little monster that should last a while.

Quote:
Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
I watch UHD movies downscaled to 1080p tone mapped to 200 nits with madVR, but even with downscaling I've noticed that film grain/digital noise is much less aesthetically pleasing than in any 1080 Blu-ray I've seen. Don't know if it's because of HDR or the better source definition or something else but it looks more like artifacts than grain or camera read noise (which usually doesn't bother me).But if you're using GPU decode for the codecs that are supported now, then this would only be useful for AV1 while there is no fixed function hardware support. If it will be really useful or not all depends on how often you upgrade your GPU.
Some movies are worse than others. And from what I can tell it really does match the original source material. Karate Kid 1984, for example, has a ton of grain in it but the original source material does. I think on a lot of 1080p blu-rays they filter some of that out when they master it whereas the UHD is trying to retain source material as much as possible. I'm good with original film grain. I'm not as much of a fan as digitally added film grain to try to make it look like film. I think that's where they overdo it quite a bit. IMO anyway.
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Old 12th May 2019, 19:13   #56225  |  Link
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I've read that the next generation of Ryzen chips should have mobos with the next PCIe gen on them.
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Old 12th May 2019, 20:59   #56226  |  Link
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Yes it's coming. I'll wait for Intel though.
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Old 12th May 2019, 21:14   #56227  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post
from what I can tell it really does match the original source material. [...] I think on a lot of 1080p blu-rays they filter some of that out when they master it whereas the UHD is trying to retain source material as much as possible.
Yes, possibly when those old movies were released we didn't witness that grain in the cinemas as the 35mm projection prints always lose quality compared to the negatives, so it just may be the first time we actually encounter it and it looks weird to us.
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Old 12th May 2019, 21:37   #56228  |  Link
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Yes it's coming. I'll wait for Intel though.
Forget about Intel go for AMD this time (and as mclingo use to say, I'm not a fanboy ), they have the better bang for money today, and they will have the better product tomorrow.
The market started to shift a year ago, hopefully Intel's mindshare will be finally completely shattered in the next couple of months, and noone - I mean literally noone - will buy Intel for couple of years as a punishment for what they did to the PC market in the last decade due to lack of competition.
I looked around half a year ago when I put together my current rig and I was shocked that they still wanted to sell 4C4T cpus for loads of money. And I have mates who still bought that overpriced crap because they thought: if cpu then Intel.
What Intel did was stealing and they only could do that because customers allowed them to do it and they will continue this habit unless...
The following companies already voted for AMD: Sony with PS5, Google, datacenters, etc. This will be a completely different game this time.
Don't get me wrong: every corporation is the same in the long run, but today...

On the VGA front the situation is a bit different: AMD doesn't care about PC gaming for now and there are rumours that the upcoming Navi won't be the savour either.
Maybe Intel will step up in this market - and no, not for us users - and bring down the insane prices of nVidia.
We will be smarter after Computex.

(And no, I don't want to upgrade my PC - that is not just an HTPC - in the next 5-8 years , maybe buying 2-4 years old power efficient nVidia GPUs strictly from the used market)
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Old 12th May 2019, 21:58   #56229  |  Link
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Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
Yes, possibly when those old movies were released we didn't witness that grain in the cinemas as the 35mm projection prints always lose quality compared to the negatives, so it just may be the first time we actually encounter it and it looks weird to us.
But it's correct.
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Old 13th May 2019, 06:21   #56230  |  Link
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May be a stupid question.My projector is BenQ TK-800 (XPR 4K).I have been using madVR for years and always very happy with the results, and no exception with my current setup. I was just playing around with madvR settings last night, and accidentally found out that if I select BT.709/601 curve instead of pure power curve, the brightness increases, and it gives me a nice bright picture compared to what I have with pure power curve. I have selected BT 709 as my primaries/gamut and as it gives me the best picture with excellent colors. If I select BT2020, the colors become dull and undersatuarated but DCP-P3 gives me a slightly better picture.What I am asking is, under these settings, is it correct to select "BT.709/601 curve" or am I doing something wrong by selecting it? Thank you.
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Old 13th May 2019, 07:21   #56231  |  Link
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The BT.709/601 curve has a flat spot in the gamma curve near black which causes it to rise much faster than pure power. If your display benefits from it it is correct, however it was not designed for displays but as a way to deal with too much noise near black with early digital cameras. It is not technically correct for your projector but if you get some shadow crush it can improve the picture a lot. A custom calibration for you projector would be better, but that does require extra hardware.

This is separate from the gamut, which you should always set to whatever primaries your display uses. Your projector uses BT 709 primaries, selecting DCI-P3 or BT.2020 in madVR will give you an incorrect (and washed out) image.
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Old 13th May 2019, 08:07   #56232  |  Link
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Thank you very much, Asmodian. Thoroughly understood.
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Old 14th May 2019, 00:31   #56233  |  Link
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Originally Posted by huhn View Post
AVX2 is very important for decoding and gives serious IPC gains and is used a lot in the past years: http://www.redaktion.tu-berlin.de/fi...n/chi2015b.pdf
I agree it's -a good thing-. However, it's NOT-important in the least for videoplayback/ madvr.

If a 4.7ghz i5 Sandybridge can CPU decode Full bitrate 4K bluray, There's flat out no reason to chase a CPU upgrade, if that budget can be put towards GPU instead.
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Old 14th May 2019, 09:12   #56234  |  Link
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never said someone should upgrade just if you get a new CPU get AVX2 is used everywhere.
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Old 14th May 2019, 14:20   #56235  |  Link
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Anyone have any suggestions for this issue?

I am not sure where to ask it, but I think it's probably a Windows or maybe NVidia thing?

I set up a HTPC for a friend, but for some reason, whenever a video opens or closes (Like starting a video in MPC-HC or then closing MP-HC itself) it causes his display to have to re-acquire it's signal.

This is pretty annoying as he has an older JVC (RS600) with a near 20-second sync time.

Now, I am completely familiar with refresh rate switching and such, but I have all of that completely disabled. I have the HTPC set for 3840x2160 23Hz RGB 12-bit (tried 8-bit as well). Refresh rate switching is disabled in madVR and disabled in MPC-HC.

Any ideas of how I can have it so that the JVC doesn't need to re-sync every time I open and close a video?
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Old 14th May 2019, 14:38   #56236  |  Link
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should be fullscreen exclusive.
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Old 14th May 2019, 14:44   #56237  |  Link
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Guys, How is 980Ti's NGU performance, assuming CPU decode.

It's got all dem' Cudas
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Old 14th May 2019, 15:01   #56238  |  Link
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should be fullscreen exclusive.
You are saying this in response to my question on the display signal re-syncing?

I have full-screen exclusive off, but I also tried it on and the behavior didn't change with respect to the display needing to re-sync the signal when the video opens and closes.
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Old 14th May 2019, 15:15   #56239  |  Link
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Anyone have any suggestions for this issue?

I set up a HTPC for a friend, but for some reason, whenever a video opens or closes (Like starting a video in MPC-HC or then closing MP-HC itself) it causes his display to have to re-acquire it's signal.
It could be because the player/renderer is set to use Full Screen Exclusive. Set it to use Full Screen Windowed and you shouldn't get the resync.

Alternatively, the desktop is set to 60hz or 50hz and the player/madVR switches to a different refresh rate when the video is played (usually 23hz).

For this reason, I have my desktop set to 23hz, that way only get a resync when playing non-23p content. However, with HDR there is a resync anyway, even if the refresh rate is the same.

If you don't want a resync ever, then you have to switch the OS to HDR and use an option to convert everything to the same refresh rate, but that's really not recommended.
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Old 14th May 2019, 15:47   #56240  |  Link
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It could be because the player/renderer is set to use Full Screen Exclusive. Set it to use Full Screen Windowed and you shouldn't get the resync.

Alternatively, the desktop is set to 60hz or 50hz and the player/madVR switches to a different refresh rate when the video is played (usually 23hz).

For this reason, I have my desktop set to 23hz, that way only get a resync when playing non-23p content. However, with HDR there is a resync anyway, even if the refresh rate is the same.

If you don't want a resync ever, then you have to switch the OS to HDR and use an option to convert everything to the same refresh rate, but that's really not recommended.
I tried both exclusive full screen and full screen windowed mode. I tried every option in the rendering tab in madVR.

But even when the player opens the video in a small window in MPC-HC in the middle of the display it still happens.

I mentioned I have Windows already locked at 3840x2160 23Hz RGB 12-bit (and I tried 8-bit as well).

I have all refresh rate switching features in the video player and madVR disabled. The JVC info screen reports the exact same video signal info before and after it goes to a black syncing screen.

It's just completely stumping me as to why it's happening. And remember then it also happens when the video player is closed, but again there is no refresh rate change actually taking place.

There is also no syncing issue happening when i switch between window and full screen in the player, just when the video is started and when it's closed.


Why would HDR need to be on? I am tone-mapping HDR to SDR in madVR. The projector is seeming not actually switching anything between the desktop and video playback, but yet it always has to re-sync.
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