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Old 17th October 2019, 10:00   #121  |  Link
Boulder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by excellentswordfight View Post
At this bitrate/compression I dont think turning off sao will do much good, and x265 medium has already more detail than nvenc in these samples anyway. I think the reason why NikosD finds nvenc superior is cause it is smoother, not the other way arround (he thinks the the clothes looks better, and they are more smudged together). x265 medium is overall much sharper, this is very clear when jumping between them, but since the bitrate is not sufficiant this also makes the people seem more cluttered.

I also had a look at the new JC samples without any filters, and it looks much better (if it was the old filters that was the issue or the new settings I'm not sure though). JC_const_quality_4Mbps looks absolutely fine now and do not suffer at all as much from inconsistent frame quality.
Gah, I had the images in a wrong order in the tabs so I was looking at NVEnc thinking it's x265 and vice versa. That's why I thought x265 looked so smoothed out.
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Old 17th October 2019, 10:24   #122  |  Link
NikosD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by excellentswordfight View Post
I think the reason why NikosD finds nvenc superior is cause it is smoother, not the other way arround (he thinks the the clothes looks better, and they are more smudged together)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boulder View Post
That's why I thought x265 looked so smoothed out.
Guys, are you telling me that the clothes of x265 medium are detailed and sharp and not messed up with the background of grass and trees and leafs ?
Because I just see blocks of pixels mixed with the background instead of clothes.
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Old 17th October 2019, 10:44   #123  |  Link
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They are more detailed than in the NVEnc one. I don't care if it's fake detail or real because when you watch the video from the normal viewing distance, you cannot tell which one it is. NVEnc is just oversmoothed to my taste. If you look at the leaves in the trees, they are quite smudged compared to x265. The same goes for the tree bark, it's almost unicoloured in NVEnc so all the detail in the shadows is lost.
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Old 17th October 2019, 16:08   #124  |  Link
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x264 Very Slow is better than x265 Medium, but NVEnc is better than both especially x265 medium
I like how you ignored blurry leaves,tress and dark area in center. x264 is still a king. Period.



x264 veryslow

Last edited by Atak_Snajpera; 17th October 2019 at 16:16.
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Old 17th October 2019, 17:38   #125  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Atak_Snajpera View Post
I like how you ignored blurry leaves,tress and dark area in center. x264 is still a king. Period
This is a little embarrassing for x265.
And are you comparing x265 medium with x264 very slow ?
It's not fair.
I didn't have the time and patience to encode x265 very slow at 0,6fps, so I don't have the frame to compare.
Anyway, I prefer NVEnc, you prefer x264 and all the others prefer x265 because obviously they own a Ryzen 3900X and leave their machines encoding for weeks...

@Boulder
While playing video, NVEnc is even better than x264 and x265 compared to still images.
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Old 17th October 2019, 18:02   #126  |  Link
Atak_Snajpera
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Originally Posted by NikosD View Post
This is a little embarrassing for x265.
And are you comparing x265 medium with x264 very slow ?
It's not fair.
I didn't have the time and patience to encode x265 very slow at 0,6fps, so I don't have the frame to compare.
Anyway, I prefer NVEnc, you prefer x264 and all the others prefer x265 because obviously they own a Ryzen 3900X and leave their machines encoding for weeks...

@Boulder
While playing video, NVEnc is even better than x264 and x265 compared to still images.
I took NVenc frame not x265! Start thinking for god sake!

Furthermore, You are exaggerating like always regarding encoding speed. Anything above x265 medium is basically a placebo.
x265 veryslow
https://i.imgsafe.org/5f/5fe574aa0d.png

x265 medium
https://i.imgsafe.org/5f/5f80fbaaef.png
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Old 17th October 2019, 18:27   #127  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Atak_Snajpera View Post
I took NVenc frame not x265! Start thinking for god sake!
You quoted my phrase comparing all of them, not in couples.
It is you, that you have to start thinking some time because you are still comparing apples with oranges.
You have to decide which is better after all and put them in order.
You jump from NVenc to x264 very slow and NVEnc to x265 medium.
We are talking about Turing's HEVC encoder and you always refer to x264, forgetting about x265.
Your comparisons are a mess!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atak_Snajpera View Post
Furthermore, You are exaggerating like always regarding encoding speed. Anything above x265 medium is basically a placebo.
I'm the only one posting encoding speeds, how on earth could I exaggerate regarding speed ?

My Core i3 9100F using 4C/4T at 4.0 GHz achieved 3,7fps using x264 2pass very slow and 8,6fps using 2pass x265 medium.
x265 very slow was 0,6fps for the first pass.

On the other hand Turing's encoder at max quality achieves 160 fps.

So, Turing's HEVC is 43 times faster than x264 very slow, almost 20 times faster than x265 medium and 270 (!) times faster than 1st pass of x265 very slow.
I don't dare to compare it with total time of x265 very slow.

Can you take a calculator in your hands please and stop making wrong assumptions ?

Thanks!

P.S
If everything above x265 medium is placebo, then we shouldn't being talking about x265.
It's a dead project for sure.
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Last edited by NikosD; 17th October 2019 at 18:52.
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Old 17th October 2019, 21:47   #128  |  Link
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I really appreciate you guys giving your opinion and posting test encodes, screenshots and such, but you're kind of going round in circles.

If you want my two cents, x264 is still better than anything else when it comes to transparency and fine details. NVenc has improved a lot and is giving very satisfying results with fast encoding speeds. If you want to best possible quality, use x264. If you're ready to lose a small amount of visual information to save a lot of time and CPU work, use NVenc. If you are most interested in compression, then try x265.

Each and every codec has pros and cons, just use what's better for your specific needs and expectations.

Also, could somebody please include SVT HEVC in these comparisons ? I haven't been able to test it myself and wonder how good it is.
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Old 17th October 2019, 22:49   #129  |  Link
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I'm retired form encoding... but still follow some threads like this to be able to maintain staxrip. I didn't even know nvenc or hardware encoders before Nikos suggested integrating it in staxrip and helped me to shape the integration. What people maybe miss is UHD and HD is a complete different story, I would guess that nvenc shines more with UHD content than it does with HD content. About SVT, probably it's not ready because I could not get SVT-AV1 working, piping input is undocumented and does not support y4m.
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Old 17th October 2019, 23:03   #130  |  Link
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FWIW a similar discussion is going on here for AVC
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/...e-AVC-encoders
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Old 18th October 2019, 00:07   #131  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tadanobu View Post

Also, could somebody please include SVT HEVC in these comparisons ? I haven't been able to test it myself and wonder how good it is.

SVT-HEVC Encodes for Parkjoy 50p 10Mb/s

Parkjoy is an AQ sensitive clip ; If you enable or tweak AQ it will move bitrate into some of those areas that look bad Atak is referring to, at the expense of edges (or vice versa). You can try it with x264/x264 with varying AQ strengths.

SVT-HEVC has one adjustment, but not for 1080

Quote:
ImproveSharpness -sharp
This is a visual quality knob that allows the use of adaptive quantization within the picture and enables visual quality algorithms that improve the sharpness of the background. This feature is only available for 4k and 8k resolutions
0 = OFF, 1 = ON
=> Note earlier SVT-HEVC builds had PSNR, VMAF, Visual tuning, but they removed the -tune for builds in the last few months. I suspect they will make a comeback



These were all done at -encMode 2 (quality from 0-11, 0 is best), 1pass VBR (they don't have 2 pass yet).
SvtHevcEncApp.exe from 20191017

1) Default intra period and lookahead (turns out to be gopsize 49, LAD 48)
Code:
"SvtHevcEncApp.exe" -i "yuv420p10le.yuv" -w 1920 -h 1080 -n 500 -bit-depth 10 -color-format 1 -intra-period -2 -rc 1 -profile 2 -fps-num 50 -fps-denom 1 -encMode 2 -tbr 10000000 -b SVT-HEVC_20191017_enc2_rc1_10Mbps_intraauto_ladauto.hevc
https://www.mediafire.com/file/isnzx...dauto.mkv/file

2) (1) + SAO off
Code:
"SvtHevcEncApp.exe" -i "yuv420p10le.yuv" -w 1920 -h 1080 -n 500 -bit-depth 10 -color-format 1 -intra-period -2 -rc 1 -profile 2 -fps-num 50 -fps-denom 1 -encMode 2 -tbr 10000000 -sao 0 -b SVT-HEVC_20191017_enc2_rc1_10Mbps_intraauto_ladauto_sao0.hevc
https://www.mediafire.com/file/qr6ab..._sao0.mkv/file

3) intra-period 250, LAD 250
Code:
"SvtHevcEncApp.exe" -i "yuv420p10le.yuv" -w 1920 -h 1080 -n 500 -bit-depth 10 -color-format 1 -intra-period 250 -rc 1 -profile 2 -fps-num 50 -fps-denom 1 -encMode 2 -tbr 10000000 -lad 250 -b SVT-HEVC_20191017_enc2_rc1_10Mbps_intra250_lad250.hevc
https://www.mediafire.com/file/wz0xv...ad250.mkv/file

4) (3) + SAO off
Code:
"SvtHevcEncApp.exe" -i "yuv420p10le.yuv" -w 1920 -h 1080 -n 500 -bit-depth 10 -color-format 1 -intra-period 250 -rc 1 -profile 2 -fps-num 50 -fps-denom 1 -encMode 2 -tbr 10000000 -lad 250 -sao 0 -b SVT-HEVC_20191017_enc2_rc1_10Mbps_intraauto_ladauto_sao0.hevc
https://www.mediafire.com/file/5h7em..._sao0.mkv/file
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Old 18th October 2019, 00:56   #132  |  Link
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I would love to use SVT, but AFAIK there is no working GUI. I know it is being considered to be added to staxrip, but until then, I am sick and tired of command lines. It's also no where near as tunable as x265 is, yet.
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Old 18th October 2019, 01:08   #133  |  Link
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I would love to use SVT, but AFAIK there is no working GUI. I know it is being considered to be added to staxrip, but until then, I am sick and tired of command lines. It's also no where near as tunable as x265 is, yet.
Push for it ;

The more GUI support, the more users, the more encodes being done, the more feedback for developers and the more improvements.

There were Y4M pipe issues in the last few months for SVT-HEVC - but I think they got those issues fixed. Selur was involved in that on the issue tracker, so I'm guessing he will probably add it to hybrid. Working Y4M pipe is almost mandatory for most GUI's .
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Old 18th October 2019, 01:29   #134  |  Link
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y4m helps, what it missed is including the frame count.
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Old 20th October 2019, 10:56   #135  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Atak_Snajpera View Post
Anything above x265 medium is basically a placebo.
x265 veryslow
https://i.imgsafe.org/5f/5fe574aa0d.png

x265 medium
https://i.imgsafe.org/5f/5f80fbaaef.png
I find myself agreeing with you most of the time when reading posts of you on this forum dude... there are some clear differences between x265's medium and veryslow presets... veryslow retains noticeably more details and overal shapes
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Old 26th October 2019, 21:38   #136  |  Link
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Yep, and it lets you push bitrate reasonably lower while keeping same quality.

For most people anywhere from faster to slow is all that's useful. For scaled VOD delivery to keep CDN costs down it's worth it to use slower/veryslow and drop bitrates by a bit.
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Old 17th December 2019, 11:13   #137  |  Link
ReinerSchweinlin
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Originally Posted by RanmaCanada View Post
I would love to use SVT, but AFAIK there is no working GUI. I know it is being considered to be added to staxrip, but until then, I am sick and tired of command lines. It's also no where near as tunable as x265 is, yet.
I recently started playing around with hybrid - it has SVT included. Didnīt use it so far though, so no experience yet to share with it...
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