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4th May 2020, 21:33 | #59461 | Link |
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ANYONE know how to autmatically switch to different 3Dluts between rec2020/ dcip3 ?
What profile variable can I set. currently it will only select the rec2020 lut if i insert one, always ignoring the p3 lut
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4th May 2020, 21:47 | #59463 | Link |
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You normally don't need multiple 3DLUTs, but if you really want, just make another madVR profile for the calibration tab and load the other 3DLUT into it and then set up the rule or hotkey for the profile to switch to the other profile.
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4th May 2020, 21:57 | #59465 | Link | |
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Could you explain how to setup the hotkey to switch to profile ? What is the RULE, variable for the difference between the file reporting rec2020 and p3 primaries ? that was my original question.
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4th May 2020, 23:52 | #59467 | Link | |
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But the problem is, your display is nowhere near full BT.2020 color gamut coverage and if you try to make a 3DLUT targeting BT.2020 you will get some posterization at high color saturation. You will have to try it out for your self and see what results you can get. Most of us who are calibrating wide color gamut calibrate for DCI-P3 as our projector can do 100% DCI-P3 or at least very close. And then madVR converts the the video BT.2020 into DCI-P3 so it matches the calibration and all is well. |
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5th May 2020, 00:03 | #59468 | Link | |
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All consumer video is rec709 or BT.2020. In madVR you would right click on your display and choose "create profile group". And then in the popup pick calibration. Then right click on on the new Profile Group 1 and do add profile. Now you will have 2 calibration tabs. In the Profile 1 and Profile 2 tabs you can enter in a hotkey to select which profile to use that you can press while in your media player to switch. Or in the Profile Group 1 tab you can write a profile auto select rule that looks like this: if (hdr) "Profile 1" else "Profile 2" And in Profile 1 load a BT.2020 3DLUT and in Profile 2 load a rec709 3DLUT. As for selecting between DCI-P3 and BT.2020 you can't do that with the standard madVR variables, but you could put "DCI-P3" somewhere in the filename for videos that you have that you know are DCI-P3 and then have madVR auto select the DCI-P3 3DLUT profile based on the filename. Like: if (fileName = "*DCI-P3*") "Profile 1" else if (hdr) "Profile 2" else "Profile 3" Note that you can also rename Profile Groups and Profiles to make things easier to keep track of. I use ArgyIICMS amd DisplayCAL and have seen no reason for multiple 3DLUTs. I just have a single DCI-P3 3DLUT, and madVR automatically converts any source color space (like rec709 and BT.2020) into DCI-P3 which is what my 3DLUT and display is calibrated for so everything comes out looking correct and calibrated. I have tried making a BT.2020 3DLUT but get noticeable posterization in saturated colors and have tried a rec709 3DLUT but that comes out with just as good of results as my DCI-P3 3DLUT so I just stick with the DCI-P3. I guess if my display like a projector had a color filter for DCI-P3 mode that lowered the light output, I might want a separate rec709 3DLUT with the color filter disabled for a brighter picture, but my display is the same brightness in rec709 and DCI-P3 mode. Last edited by SirMaster; 5th May 2020 at 00:09. |
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5th May 2020, 00:11 | #59469 | Link | |
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97% of DCI-P3. For example: "After calibration this RS520 was covering 97% of the DCI-P3 color gamut. With some extra calibration work, this RS520 could potentially get more coverage but it would be at the expense of color accuracy." It has some special filter that helps with that. I will try that first and see how it looks. Thanks Last edited by shaolin95; 5th May 2020 at 00:39. |
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5th May 2020, 00:17 | #59470 | Link | |
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If you make a DCI-P3 3DLUT you should get good results. But a BT.2020 3DLUT will not yield good results as the coverage of that color gamut on the display is way too low. |
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5th May 2020, 02:07 | #59471 | Link | |
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It's not the file that's causing problems, it's how argyll cms compresses the gamuts into whatever gamut the tv has. It does a different operation between P3 / Rec2020 as the source colorspace. Depending on the movie, this may or may not work well. It's at the whim of Argyll, and its algorithm's interplay with the primaries of the TV. You need both.
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5th May 2020, 02:52 | #59472 | Link | |
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5th May 2020, 03:15 | #59473 | Link | |
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So, in total, probably 12-15 different luts that you play with depending on the movie. This is all created from the same set of measurements, so you only need to measure once. < assuming you set these settings correctly > None of them will look-bad, but for example one lut might push red into an orange/pink area (depending on the primary of the device). and you'd need a different lut which doesn't do that. This is a long chain of color-interplay between file, cms, lut intent, madvr. There's no one size fits all. It might work on someone else's tv, but not yours.
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Ghetto | 2500k 5Ghz Last edited by tp4tissue; 5th May 2020 at 03:19. |
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5th May 2020, 03:48 | #59474 | Link | |
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Now on some possible less exciting news I also found this piece of intriguing information from a poster on avsforum: "Quick notes for nVidia HTPC/MadVR users [others please skip]: the magenta bug present on the rs500 at 4K60 8bits in 385.28 and for all 8bits resolutions in all recent drivers including the latest is gone, which is great news. This means 8bits becomes usable, and leaving MadVR dither to 8bits might be a better option than forcing 12bits out because levels are still borked in 12bits with recent drivers. [EDIT 01/03/19: I found the reason for this: there is a bug in the new models that force YCC422 behind madVR's back when RGB 12bits is selected in the nVidia CP. The driver sends RGB 12bits, the JVC reports RGB 12bits, but in reality it's forcing YCC422. JVC knows about the bug, so hopefully they will fix it in an upcoming f/w update]." It is a post from last year...guess I need to figure out a way to test if this affects my projector. I hope not as he said new models and his post is from 2019 so maybe mine is not affected. Any suggestions where to see this issue more easily? Last edited by shaolin95; 5th May 2020 at 04:56. |
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5th May 2020, 04:54 | #59475 | Link | |
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I have tried making dozens of 3DLUTS for BT.2020 and every single one ends up with posterization near the gamut limits. And for rendering intent, if you are trying to make a 3DLUT for a gamut that is wider than your display, the only ones that yield good results are the default "Absolute colorimetric with white point scaling" or maybe "Luminance matched appearance" All the others are bad and lead to shrinking the native gamut even more and colors being much farther off. Here is a measurement I took of what the 3DLUT does with 6 of the rendering intents for a display that cannot reach P3. Clearly the "Absolute colorimetric with white point scaling" is the best. https://slow.pics/c/mldFlPW3 But unless your display can come within 10% of the native gamut you are targeting I would't target that gamut and would drop down to the lower one. Like if you are above 90% P3 then with enough patches you can get a result that's largely posterization free, otherwise if you are less than 90% then I wouldn't bother with P3 and would just stick to rec709. And again I don't think anyone should be trying to target BT.2020 as that always leads to a lot of posterization no matter which rendering intent I used and for which display I tried making the 3DLUT for. |
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5th May 2020, 05:20 | #59476 | Link | |
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It has NOTHING to do with specific underpinnings of rec2020 or dci p3. It's not resultant of the size of the gamut. On one of my displays, I get posterization on Red while setting dcip3 as source, while rec2020 doesn't have this problem. You can fix this to some degree just by moving your primaries in the tv's cms a little left or right. But overcorrection might cause issues of its own. So In general, steer clear of tv / monitor CMS except for the tone curve. You're also wrong about rendering intent. Colorimetric w/ white point scaling actually shrinks the gamut the most. because it cuts off earlier along the primaries to preserve accuracy over saturation. But again, this depends on where the primaries are. it may not behave this way for all situations. Preserve saturation, and saturation, gives you the widest use of the gamut, but can be oversaturated.
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Ghetto | 2500k 5Ghz Last edited by tp4tissue; 5th May 2020 at 05:38. |
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5th May 2020, 06:09 | #59477 | Link | |
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@SirMaster: Can you share your display characterization data (the display profile), for which you were not able to get a good BT.2020 HDR to SDR LUT? |
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5th May 2020, 06:24 | #59478 | Link | |
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5th May 2020, 07:19 | #59479 | Link | |
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I have done this on my computer monitors, TVs, and projectors all with the same result. Sure I cannot say it will be this way for every monitor because I cannot test every monitor. But every display I have generated 3DLUTs for and where I have tried multiple rendering intents have ended up this way. "Absolute colorimetric with white point scaling" has simply always led me to the best results that I see after verifying the LUT no matter what displays I have calibrated so far. Unless I am doing something very wrong. I am definitely open for learning. I just write about what I have found based on my own experiences with the software and the process. Last edited by SirMaster; 5th May 2020 at 07:39. |
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5th May 2020, 07:29 | #59480 | Link | |
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https://nicko88.com/misc/NX5_gamut/ The DCI-P3 LUT causes a very, very tiny amount of posterization, small enough to not really notice normally. The BT.2020 one causes pretty massive posterization that can't be ignored IMO. But I saw this same phenomenon making a DCI-P3 3DLUT on one of my computer monitors which has just slightly more than rec709 and not near full P3 gamut (it's the display that was shown in my 6 screenshot measurements earlier). Same thing on my Samsung TV that has near full P3 coverage when I tried a BT.2020 LUT. If there is a way to make a 3DLUT with ArgyIICMS targeting a gamut that is substantially wider than the display's native gamut and there to be no noticeable posterization then I guess I just don't know how to achieve such results. It's the only result I have ever seen on a multitude of displays that I have generated LUTs for. And I have tried all the rendering intents. I am not sure what else I can adjust. But when I target a gamut that is smaller than the display's native or only slightly larger then the results have always been fine. |
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direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling |
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