Hardware discussion/analysis relating to software playback

[SamuriHL]

Firmly in the rumor no one has a clue category:

https://www.thefpsreview.com/2020/10...-7-nm-process/

[chros]

I see, cheers, well, I guess we will see, but even if it will happen, it won't be tomorrow

[Manni]

Originally Posted by chros

Yep, just cancel it, this is ridiculous.
Do you have a link about the 7nm rumors?

https://www.hardwaretimes.com/nvidia...in-2021-rumor/

https://www.thefpsreview.com/2020/10...-7-nm-process/

No idea how trustworthy these rumors are...

[chros]

Thanks. I still don't understand the reason why the +100W difference between 3070 and 3080:
- is it gddr6x?
- and/or awful scaling of hardware?

[el Filou]

Originally Posted by huhn

why should there be something wrong with the PCIe 4 implementation? the only thing related to issue with PCIe 4.0 are NAVI GPUs where the cure for blackscreens is >everything<.

There have been issues on X570 with add-in cards designed for older PCIe revisions. Among those reported that I've read about are sound cards, NICs, and FireWire adapters, but maybe there are others. Some motherboards manufacturers have fixed them with new BIOS that enable a "compatibility mode" that disables newer features of the protocol added in 4.0, one of those being the "10-bit tag" explained here: https://blogs.synopsys.com/vip-centr...n-4-bandwidth/
This has not been reported with GPUs AFAIK, and some people have reported that putting those add-in cards in the slot connected to the CPU does not cause the issues (but then you have to put your GPU on the chipset, so not a fix), so it may be related to the lanes on the X570 chipset. Then again as it's the only chipset currently providing PCIe 4.0 outside of the CPU lanes, there is no way to verify this on another platform (of course the issues could also come from the design of those older adapters not 100% following the protocol spec and causing forward compatibility issues, or "undefined behaviour").
Anyway, yes there have been issues even if it's limited to a very small percentage of hardware and users.
If I had to buy a new system now I would buy a B550 just to avoid that because I'm using an old add-in soundcard and PCIe Wi-Fi.

[QBhd]

I have zero issues with my soundcard... I don't think the problems described above are widespread.

QB

[huhn]

the x1 slots are PCIe 3 not 4 on x570 only the CPU slot and the x4 slot are PCIe 4. i have tested quite some sounds cards with it no problem and the PCIe x1 slots should be identical between b550 and x570.

older PCIe had that problem multiply times (even GPUs) where they stopped working in a new slot and the mainboard bios had to find a workaround. what so ever the topic was a new card in a new spec. if you create a PCIe x4 4 card right now you create it for x570 (for the most part). there shouldn't be any problem.

[Asmodian]

Originally Posted by el Filou

There have been issues on X570 with add-in cards designed for older PCIe revisions.

I am not sure how much I would worry about this, I am sure there are issues with some older cards but most work fine.

My Mellanox MCX354A (ConnectX-3, ca. 2011) and CX455A (ConnectX-4, ca. 2014) work perfectly in my X570 Asus Crosshair VIII Hero with no workarounds. I have all legacy compatibility modes disabled and the slots all in "auto" generation. I don't think these PCIe 3.0 devices are ones Asus did a special BIOS workaround for.

Originally Posted by huhn

the x1 slots are PCIe 3 not 4 on x570 only the CPU slot and the x4 slot are PCIe 4. i have tested quite some sounds cards with it no problem and the PCIe x1 slots should be identical between b550 and x570.

The PCIe x1 slots support 4.0 on X570. Support for PCIe 4.0 lanes from the chipset is the major difference between X570 and B550. All the PCIe slots on my motherboard support PCIe 4.0.

[huhn]

i just checked again on msi they use PCIe 3.i only checked like 10 boards. the interface between chipset and CPU is PCIe 4 x4.

[Asmodian]

Weird, I just totally assumed it was standard for all X570 boards.

[huhn]

i just looked at an random board first which was an MSI board and i assumed it was normal that it uses PCIe 3 so that makes two.

[el Filou]

Originally Posted by huhn

what so ever the topic was a new card in a new spec.

Apologies, I misunderstood from the replies.

Yeah I did not say that this problem was widespread, just that it happened. I wasn't aware there had been forward compatibility issues with GPUs and PCIe before.

@QBhd I also have an X-Fi Ti which is good news, but on Creative's subreddit a lot of people reported problems with the very recent AE-x series of card for example, in fact I first learned about it on that forum.

AMD's spec page for X570 (https://www.amd.com/en/chipsets/x570) says:

Up to 16x PCIe® 4.0 Lanes [...] PLUS all of the PCIe 4.0, USB, and storage I/O from the AMD Ryzen Processor

which clearly indicates PCIe lanes from the chipset can be 4.0, so I wouldn't be surprised if some manufacturers (especially MSI who was the first to provide a fix for the 10-bit tag issue) had limited the chipset lanes to 3.0 to avoid any potential issues.

[huhn]

i have an AE-X lying around somewhere.

the x570 is connected to the CPU (IO die) using PCIe 4 x4 so the max speed is PCIe 4 x4 no matter what.

in short zen 2 consumer has 24 PCIe 4 lanes 16 directly to the CPU 4 to the IO die for M.2 and 4 for the chipset (from the IO die).

it's quite complicated: https://images.anandtech.com/doci/14161/X570.png

[QBhd]

On my ASUS TUF X570...

AMD X570 chipset
1 x PCIe 4.0 x16 (max at x4 mode)
3 x PCIe 4.0 x1

So this confirms the 4 lanes from the chipset at least on mine. And also confirms the PCIe slots are all 4.0 when using Zen2 (3rd gen)

EDIT: Actually I think I am interpreting this wrong... that's 7 of the 8 available (based on the diagram above). My board has 8 SATA (Yes I use them all, LOL) so there seems to be lanes left on the table with this budget board.

EDIT 2: It's only 1 lane left unused? I do have the 2 NVMe (one from the CPU and one from the chipset)... UGH, I will agree with the "it's quite complicated" statement from huhn LOL

QB

[SamuriHL]

Seriously....it should NOT be that complicated but apparently is. I think I'll just....hold off a while before considering upgrading to something with a PCIe 4.x solution. LOL

[QBhd]

The PCIe 4.0 is not the complicated part... It's the versatility and customizability of the X570 chipset and how the vendors implement such flexibility. You just need to do the leg work and make sure the board suits your needs.

Edit: What nev said too

QB

[nevcairiel]

Originally Posted by QBhd

The PCIe 4.0 is not the complicated part... It's the versatility and customizability of the X570 chipset and how the vendors implement such flexibility. You just need to do the leg work and make sure the board suits your needs.

Indeed. And this isnt really new to this generation. But I guess there was less to care about before for many people. Motherboard picking has always been an art for me with big spreadsheets.

[QBhd]

Oh yeah, I spent the better part of a year deciding what X570 board to get. I originally wanted a Hero, but after really sitting down and thinking about the things I truly need, the TUF was the better option and about $250 cheaper....

Although, I really do like and want the new refreshed Hero Dark... Damn I just upgraded in March after 8 years on 990FX/8350... and now I want Zen3 and a Hero Dark... LOL

QB

[nevcairiel]

I'm currently looking at the Gigabyte X570 Aorus Master since it ticks all my boxes, but i'm still looking if they release new boards until November.

[Manni]

I cancelled my 3090 order today as I made barely any progress on the queue this week and wanted the money back before I had to pay the VISA bill, given they weren't even sure they could deliver by the end of November.
I'll wait until early next year to upgrade the GPU, when I have more time and we know better what the options are. Hopefully a 3080ti with 20Gb in 7nm.
CPU-wise, I'm still waiting until Rocket Lake is out to make a decision between Intel and AMD, but still leaning towards Intel for now due to my specific needs.
I guess most people would lean towards AMD, and rightly so. Zen 3 looks very appealing.
I don't expect to have my new rig fully built until the middle of 2021 now, so I have plenty of time to decide.
I'm like Nevcairiel, I use spreadsheets a lot when deciding on components for a new rig...