madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[el Filou]

Originally Posted by Asmodian

There are situations where it can scale chroma to 1440 while scaling 4K luma to 1440. Probably doesn't work with SSIM though.

Originally Posted by huhn

you just have to make sure the chroma scaler isn't a x2 algorithm even with SSIM

I stand corrected, I made a wrong assumption. I compared on my desktop which has a 1440 display and it indeed works, and the difference (ReconSoft + SSIM2D) is massive: -55% performance without it!

[huhn]

well do you want to fill put the bug report. i mean it says scale chroma separately if it saves performance it clearly doesn't.

[el Filou]

I meant minus 55% performance with the option unchecked, so it does indeed saves performance. Or, if you prefer to phrase it another way, more than 2x the rendering time if the save performance option is not checked.

[tp4tissue]

hang on what's going on with chroma ? what are the comparisons for the performance saving?

[whitestar999]

Originally Posted by el Filou

I meant minus 55% performance with the option unchecked, so it does indeed saves performance. Or, if you prefer to phrase it another way, more than 2x the rendering time if the save performance option is not checked.

I am planning on installing win 10 v1909(currently using LTSC 2019 on ryzen 1200 with 1050Ti) but heard that too many updates result in issues with madvr. Would you recommend it over LTSC & if yes then are there any steps to follow to avoid issues with madvr?

[Siso]

Originally Posted by whitestar999

I am planning on installing win 10 v1909(currently using LTSC 2019 on ryzen 1200 with 1050Ti) but heard that too many updates result in issues with madvr. Would you recommend it over LTSC & if yes then are there any steps to follow to avoid issues with madvr?

I'm goin' to install ltsc in about 1-2 weeks, but haven't heard about any issues with madvr. Are there any, if anyone knows please do tell.

[Asmodian]

I am using Win10 20H2. No issues with madVR after lowering the frame presented in advance.

What issues are people having?

[el Filou]

Originally Posted by whitestar999

I am planning on installing win 10 v1909(currently using LTSC 2019 on ryzen 1200 with 1050Ti) but heard that too many updates result in issues with madvr. Would you recommend it over LTSC & if yes then are there any steps to follow to avoid issues with madvr?

Based on experience, it's not the frequency of updates but their timing. I play it very safe on my HTPC and only update about 6 months after a Windows release and I've never had any problems even though I'm not using LTSC (I will very soon update to 20H2, as now the H1 and H2 builds share the same core).
Most of the time the problems are with GPU drivers or the OS itself and get resolved after a few weeks.
IIRC I've only seen one issue with Windows 10 where a change was needed in madVR itself, and it was resolved by madshi after some months.

Originally Posted by tp4tissue

hang on what's going on with chroma ? what are the comparisons for the performance saving?

I was comparing the performance with "scale chroma separately" (in trade quality for performance options) checked and unchecked, with 4K video on a 1440 display. I thought that didn't work but it was a misguided assumption from when I was using NGU for chroma (you can't use a doubling scaler for it to work, as huhn mentioned).
Of course the case with an even bigger performance gain is where display def = exact half of video def.

[whitestar999]

Originally Posted by Siso

I'm goin' to install ltsc in about 1-2 weeks, but haven't heard about any issues with madvr. Are there any, if anyone knows please do tell.

Currently there seems to be no issues but I have noticed some serious fluctuations in download speeds of my wifi(maybe my case only as I am using an old usb ac wifi adapter which works fine on win 8.1 in another system) & also Microsoft had released update for ryzen scheduling issue in v1903(LTSC is v1809) which can increase the performance of ryzen processors by a decent amount in gaming like scenarios so thinking of trying the v1909(comments suggests it is very stable plus enterprise version support is there till 11 may 2021).

[whitestar999]

Originally Posted by el Filou

Based on experience, it's not the frequency of updates but their timing. I play it very safe on my HTPC and only update about 6 months after a Windows release and I've never had any problems even though I'm not using LTSC (I will very soon update to 20H2, as now the H1 and H2 builds share the same core).
Most of the time the problems are with GPU drivers or the OS itself and get resolved after a few weeks.
IIRC I've only seen one issue with Windows 10 where a change was needed in madVR itself, and it was resolved by madshi after some months.

By updates you mean windows regular updates or windows version updates(say 1903 to 1909)?

[el Filou]

If you're going to switch to the standard branch and you've got recent (= still supported by manufacturer) hardware, I'd switch directly to 20H2. It's the same kernel as 20H1 so it's been out for 6 months now, all the showstopping bugs have been fixed and you'll get 12 additional months of updates compared to 1909.
If you're worried about issues, just update Windows once a year around november/december and you should be fine.

Originally Posted by whitestar999

By updates you mean windows regular updates or windows version updates(say 1903 to 1909)?

Both really. I update to a newer Windows version once a year around november/december, and for monthly updates I manually pause them and update during the second weekend after patch tuesday (i.e. a week and a half after the monthly update is released).

[Siso]

Originally Posted by whitestar999

Currently there seems to be no issues but I have noticed some serious fluctuations in download speeds of my wifi(maybe my case only as I am using an old usb ac wifi adapter which works fine on win 8.1 in another system) & also Microsoft had released update for ryzen scheduling issue in v1903(LTSC is v1809) which can increase the performance of ryzen processors by a decent amount in gaming like scenarios so thinking of trying the v1909(comments suggests it is very stable plus enterprise version support is there till 11 may 2021).

My cpu is xeon x5650, so I don't need the new ryzen stuff. So I guess ltsc still would be a good choice.

[brazen1]

I've been using W10 20H2 for about a month on my workstation/HTPC with MadVR, etc. All is well. Everything is updated to the latest, Kodi 19 nightly, LAV, various players, nVidia, etc. etc. One thing stands out on my setup after upgrading to 20H2 - Windows desktop color saturation.

Video has always been as spot on as it can be and still is after the upgrade. Nothing changed. What changed drastically is the Windows desktop. It's always looked a bit drab when it comes to colors and blacks. I could compensate by changing some settings in my panel to make Windows look more vibrant and blacker without crushing but then it destroys the video playback and who wants to toggle settings video vs desktop, so I always lived with it. Not that it was terrible or anything.

Now with 20H2, the colors and the blacks have come alive. I notice it in web video. I first noticed it in the start menu. All the yellow folders and the pinned icons look so much better. Many things including GUI's of different apps look so much better. No settings anywhere were changed and it isn't coincidence. I even reverted back to 1909 (toggling from 1909 vs 20H2 in essence) without upgrading or downgrading anything and compared. Considering I've done many, many O/S versions throughout time, this 20H2 is something special imo... at least for me.

The only way I can describe it is - You know when you enable Windows HDR... and you navigate things throughout Windows, apps, etc. Some things look sort of overly saturated but appealing. Other things look horrible. What I see now is appealing and nothing horrible. This with Windows HDR OFF of course.

Maybe it just likes my old GTX 960 or something? Has anyone else noticed this?

[tp4tissue]

Originally Posted by el Filou

Based on experience, it's not the frequency of updates but their timing. I play it very safe on my HTPC and only update about 6 months after a Windows release and I've never had any problems even though I'm not using LTSC (I will very soon update to 20H2, as now the H1 and H2 builds share the same core).
Most of the time the problems are with GPU drivers or the OS itself and get resolved after a few weeks.
IIRC I've only seen one issue with Windows 10 where a change was needed in madVR itself, and it was resolved by madshi after some months.I was comparing the performance with "scale chroma separately" (in trade quality for performance options) checked and unchecked, with 4K video on a 1440 display. I thought that didn't work but it was a misguided assumption from when I was using NGU for chroma (you can't use a doubling scaler for it to work, as huhn mentioned).
Of course the case with an even bigger performance gain is where display def = exact half of video def.

That's pretty neat. Buhhhh.. it's blasphemous to watch 4K on NON-4K screens. A War-Crime..

You will be tried and found guilty of Treason, Madshi himself will sentence you to 10 years of rock breaking.

[VBB]

@brazen1 - As you know, we both have almost the same exact rig, but I can't say that I've noticed anything different when I upgraded last month. I did a clean install, though, and I use a black background and never really access the start menu. I'm also mismatching levels intentionally by having the video card set to full and the TV to limited. Perhaps that's why I can't tell a difference

And speaking of outdated/unsupported hardware... brazen and I both run 12-year old CPUs and mobos! No issue with any of the five! major OS's I've had installed throughout the years

[brazen1]

I too use a black background along with all the apps that offer 'dark themes' such as MPC. Mismatching levels is the cure for desktop in the setting changes I mentioned but not for video for me. Full, Full, Full here and I understand the panel differences require it. It really is a testament how significant the GPU role is in relationship to our other ancient hardware and even our GPU's are outdated.

That said, I, and perhaps you have little reason to upgrade assuming you also passthrough... and why wouldn't you. I do admit the 960 does not have enough oomph to use MadVR denoising with 2160p HDR and I'd like to have that for older titles that were remastered from film that contained a lot of grain to begin with. Newer digital titles are fine without it though. Even HDR 2160p 60Hz Gemini Man. Probably one of the best cameras used. Aircraft Carrier is another. I've had denoising mapped to my remote so when a noisy title is played I can simply toggle it on and repeat through the intensities until it cleans up. Only on non-HDR titles though. It's probably the most go to fine adjustment I make in real time playback and I'm so, so happy madshi created it for us. Big thank you if you're still monitoring this thread.

That said, I can't justify upgrading my 960 basically just for that - Not at todays rip-off pricing nor last years, nor the year before that. And what owners are selling their used units for... another complete joke. They can keep them or let some other thrifty nut job buy my share.

[VBB]

I'm a purist and a masochist, apparently, so I don't mind grain or stutter. Gives me even less of a reason to upgrade in the near future, although the 960 has been showing signs of aging lately (occasional freezes followed by hard reset). I can live with it for now. Next year might be the time to build a new PC from scratch along with getting a replacement for the trusty C7.

[brazen1]

Personally, I'm waiting for a Windows MadVR update that will force me to upgrade. (crosses fingers) That or 8k down the road when releases are abundant. Until then, I remain perfectly happy as is.

[tp4tissue]

Has anyone else noticed that 60hz kind of smears 24fps content.. Whereas if you have matched refresh, the frames look more stochastic but also more clear.

[huhn]

Originally Posted by el Filou

I meant minus 55% performance with the option unchecked, so it does indeed saves performance. Or, if you prefer to phrase it another way, more than 2x the rendering time if the save performance option is not checked.

my point is that you have to disable 2x chroma scaler for 1420p+ output for an UHD source.