madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[Betroz]

Originally Posted by ryrynz

I just commented on your worst setting. You should really understand the settings and evaluate their impact on picture quality rather than just blindly setting the highest possible options.

Okay, but I simply didn't just go for the highest settings strait away. I like NNEDI3 more than super-xbr, so I want to use that.

What setting of super-xbr compares to NNEDI4 64 i terms of overall IQ in your opinion?

[Betroz]

Originally Posted by Backflash

You say your friend has 128, and yours is 256. That's not just twice the performance cost, it's much more.

Tried 128 and saved just a few ms in rendering time.

[Ver Greeneyes]

Originally Posted by Betroz

What setting of super-xbr compares to NNEDI4 64 i terms of overall IQ in your opinion?

I don't think you can really compare them directly. Super-XBR tends to leave lines somewhat thicker and is fairly predictable - as a result some consider it best for things like anime and for chroma upscaling.

NNEDI3 can usually pull out a bit more detail and has a more subtle look, but it can also create an artificial (brushed) look, especially on things like landscapes. These errors tend to be more pronounced on the lower settings of NNEDI3. SuperRes tends to reduce the drawbacks of both approaches (though I personally feel that a strength of more than 2 sharpens too much).

If you really want to optimize your settings, you should spend some time looking at various types of content to see what kind of look you like best. NNEDI3 is very performance hungry at the higher settings, which is fine if you have room to spare, but I don't think it's worth bumping it up as high as it can go at the expense of other things (like the upscaling refinement filters).

Also remember that performance depends strongly on the resolution of the source. Your GPU is very powerful, but even it has limits if you intend to use things like image doubling on HD and (worse) UHD content. You can set up profiles for different resolutions and frame rates to optimize your settings across the board.

[chros]

Originally Posted by 70MM

Is there anyway to control madvr through a third party application?
...
We want to operate A stretch, sharpness controls and blanking via an ipad

There "is", with a little hacking, if you can assign keyboard shortcuts to the functionality you want to use AND you use a player that has a built-in web server with CGI support (like mpc-hc/mpc-be). Take a look at this post: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...91#post1735591
I use 1 madrv feature like this almost every day: toggling the Source Level (CTRL+SHIFT+ALT+i).
I also create a demo html page (with buttons) for me (only 1 html file), which is using the above linked setup. If you want to take a look at it, I can upload it to github during the weekend.

[ryrynz]

Originally Posted by Betroz

What setting of super-xbr compares to NNEDI4 64 i terms of overall IQ in your opinion?

I was talking chroma upscaling specifically here. Everyone has their own tastes, personally I find NNEDI3 64 neurons a great cost effective luma scaler for most content.
There's no easy recommendation, double, sharpen, downscale.. so many possible combinations, you can be at this for awhile.

[fedpul]

Originally Posted by Betroz

Okay, but I simply didn't just go for the highest settings strait away. I like NNEDI3 more than super-xbr, so I want to use that.

What setting of super-xbr compares to NNEDI4 64 i terms of overall IQ in your opinion?

Hi Betroz. Those settings are way overkill for any GPU on earth :P. You can try using super-xbr 100 AR (SR 1 if you want too) for Chroma upscaling and I will not go past 64 neurons for luma doubling. Also you can try super-xbr AB 25 for luma doubling which is quite similar to NNEDI 64 neurons (it looks good but not as good as NNEDI3) but I think with the savings you will have in chroma upscaling using super-xbr you will be fine. Which algorithms are you using for image upscaling and downscaling? Are you using upscaling refinements too?

[Betroz]

Originally Posted by fedpul

Hi Betroz. Those settings are way overkill for any GPU on earth :P. You can try using super-xbr 100 AR (SR 1 if you want too) for Chroma upscaling and I will not go past 64 neurons for luma doubling. Also you can try super-xbr AB 25 for luma doubling which is quite similar to NNEDI 64 neurons (it looks good but not as good as NNEDI3) but I think with the savings you will have in chroma upscaling using super-xbr you will be fine. Which algorithms are you using for image upscaling and downscaling? Are you using upscaling refinements too?

Thanks for your reply and tips

I did a quick test now with some 480p and 720p content with these settings :

- Deinterlacing : OFF
- artifact removal : medium/high
- image enhancements : None
- chroma upscaling : Super-xbr 100 AR, SR1
- image downscaling : SSIM 2D100%, AR relaxed, LL
- image doubling : Allways, NNEDI3 128 double and quad LUMA
- image upscaling : Jinc AR
- upscaling refinement : CE1, ED1, LS 0.65, AR
- D3D11 Fullscreen exclusive mode
- dithering : Error Diffusion 2
- smooth motion off (Reclock)
- trade settings : all OFF

No dropped frames so far (only tested 23 fps content), so I saved a lot by going for super-xbr for Chroma Upscaling With rendering time under 30ms for 480p content i tested. I may be able to tweak the upscaling refinements a bit more too.

[Uoppi]

After upgrading to 90.17 (from 90.15, I believe) and without changing any settings, render queues are suddenly struggling to fill up with some of my profiles.

Any ideas which new features might have become more taxing to the system compared to 90.15? I'd really prefer not having to go through all the profiles one by one again and try to guess what's different. FWIW, I'm not using any "gimmicks" besides doubling other than super-res x1.

EDIT: The only thing I can think of causing this is the tweaked upscaling/downscaling anti-ringing filters = much more performance hungry than before.

Can the actual rips influence performance? My rig does Image Doubling - Luma with NNEDI3 32n SuperSampling always enabled on most 1080p 23-24p BD's and rips I made, but some specific rips stutter heavily with SuperSaming enabled with identical 23-24p 1080p content using identical rip settings and H.264 encoder settings... I obviously use the same madVR settings for both rip types - the ones that stutter with SS and the ones that do not.

- Any ideas why the above happens?
- Does madVR waste resources on rendering the black bars?
- Why do films that run at 23-24Hz are called 23-24p content? I mean whybis there a "p" there? 1080p "p" stands for Pixels AFAIK, which makes sense, but 23-24p "p" is there because..?

Originally Posted by Uoppi

After upgrading to 90.17 (from 90.15, I believe) and without changing any settings, render queues are suddenly struggling to fill up with some of my profiles.

Any ideas which new features might have become more taxing to the system compared to 90.15? I'd really prefer not having to go through all the profiles one by one again and try to guess what's different. FWIW, I'm not using any "gimmicks" besides doubling other than super-res x1.

EDIT: The only thing I can think of causing this is the tweaked upscaling/downscaling anti-ringing filters = much more performance hungry than before.

It happens to me with new builds once in a while. Make sure to remove all previous madVR files, including the settings file. That solved it for me, but Resetting Settings is another thing you can do.

[bcec]

Originally Posted by XMonarchY

- Why do films that run at 23-24Hz are called 23-24p content? I mean whybis there a "p" there? 1080p "p" stands for Pixels AFAIK, which makes sense, but 23-24p "p" is there because..?

p stands for progressive (as opposed to i, which stands for interlaced).

[Uoppi]

Originally Posted by XMonarchY

It happens to me with new builds once in a while. Make sure to remove all previous madVR files, including the settings file. That solved it for me, but Resetting Settings is another thing you can do.

Hmm, maybe I'll try that. I always uninstall before upgrading but I leave my settings file intact. Any tips on how to handily back up and reimport the settings other than copy-pasting the profile rules text?

[huhn]

Originally Posted by XMonarchY

Can the actual rips influence performance? My rig does Image Doubling - Luma with NNEDI3 32n SuperSampling always enabled on most 1080p 23-24p BD's and rips I made, but some specific rips stutter heavily with SuperSaming enabled with identical 23-24p 1080p content using identical rip settings and H.264 encoder settings... I obviously use the same madVR settings for both rip types - the ones that stutter with SS and the ones that do not.

- Any ideas why the above happens?
- Does madVR waste resources on rendering the black bars?
- Why do films that run at 23-24Hz are called 23-24p content? I mean whybis there a "p" there? 1080p "p" stands for Pixels AFAIK, which makes sense, but 23-24p "p" is there because..?

do you have a sample?

[Warner306]

Originally Posted by 70MM

Warner can you take a look at this for me please...
Ive noticed if I set debanding to anything higher than low I get a lot of dropped frames. With both set to low I get 16 dropped frames after 9mins, is that ok?
Im now using 12 frames in advance and there are no skipped frames that are visible with the settings like this.
Remember Im playing my BDs at 60Hz due to my long sync issues I have with mixed content 50/60/24 on my RS600 projector.
http://forum.doom9.org/attachment.ph...1&d=1459320046

You can't use attachments on this forum. They take too long to be approved. You need to use an image hosting service, Google Drive, Dropbox, etc.

Are these frame drops happening at the very beginning of each video?

Are you using any custom refresh rates?

Are you bitstreaming?

To completely eliminate dropped frames, you would have to use PCM output and use VideoClock in JRiver. Clock jitter exists on almost every system. Most people won't notice one frame drop every three minutes or so. But it sounds like you may have another issue as I don't know why changing debanding settings leads to more or less dropped frames. I am assuming your rendering times are no higher than 35 ms.

If it is debanding causing the problem, madshi may have to comment. It would help to see your rendering stats.

[Manni]

Originally Posted by 70MM

Is there anyway to control madvr through a third party application?

I use MCE Controller to send the MadVR keybord shortcuts using iRule. Works great .

[scollaco]

Originally Posted by Manni

I use MCE Controller to send the MadVR keybord shortcuts using iRule. Works great .

I use MCE controller and iRule too. I can attest it works like a charm!

[70MM]

Originally Posted by Warner306

You can't use attachments on this forum. They take too long to be approved. You need to use an image hosting service, Google Drive, Dropbox, etc.

Are these frame drops happening at the very beginning of each video?

Are you using any custom refresh rates?

Are you bitstreaming?

To completely eliminate dropped frames, you would have to use PCM output and use VideoClock in JRiver. Clock jitter exists on almost every system. Most people won't notice one frame drop every three minutes or so. But it sounds like you may have another issue as I don't know why changing debanding settings leads to more or less dropped frames. I am assuming your rendering times are no higher than 35 ms.

If it is debanding causing the problem, madshi may have to comment. It would help to see your rendering stats.

Sorry about that Warner, Im now using Google Drive...
The dropped frames are at the beginning if I set banding higher than low/low

I am using 60Hz for everything

I am bitstreaming and prefer to stay this way for Atmos etc

Again my build is:

CPU: Intel Skylake Core i7 6700 3.4Ghz
Motherboard: Asus H170M-PLUS Intel H170
Memory: 16GB 2133MHz DDR4
Video: Asus STRIX GTX 970 DirectCU II Overclocked 4GB GDDR5
Optical drive: ASUS BC-12D2HT 12x Blu-ray Reader
Storage: Crucial BX100 250GB SATA3 2.5" SSD

Here you go, can you tell me what might be wrong...


http://forum.doom9.org/attachment.ph...1&d=1459320046

[leeperry]

Originally Posted by Ver Greeneyes

SuperRes (..) a strength of more than 2 sharpens too much

Totally, 3 & 4 are unusable IME.

[Warner306]

Originally Posted by 70MM

Sorry about that Warner, Im now using Google Drive...
The dropped frames are at the beginning if I set banding higher than low/low

I am using 60Hz for everything

I am bitstreaming and prefer to stay this way for Atmos etc

Again my build is:

CPU: Intel Skylake Core i7 6700 3.4Ghz
Motherboard: Asus H170M-PLUS Intel H170
Memory: 16GB 2133MHz DDR4
Video: Asus STRIX GTX 970 DirectCU II Overclocked 4GB GDDR5
Optical drive: ASUS BC-12D2HT 12x Blu-ray Reader
Storage: Crucial BX100 250GB SATA3 2.5" SSD

Here you go, can you tell me what might be wrong...


http://forum.doom9.org/attachment.ph...1&d=1459320046

I can't see your attachment. It might be because I'm on a phone. Can someone help 70 MM?

If the dropped frames only happen when the movie starts, it is probably an issue with JRiver or a problem with madVR you can't control. Like I said, Kodi DSPlayer drops a bunch of frames at the start of a 23.976 fps video. After that, it's fine so I don't care all that much. It's not that noticeable.

[Warner306]

Originally Posted by leeperry

Totally, 3 & 4 are unusable IME.

I posted an image comparison a couple of pages ago that shows SuperRes (3) applied to an upscale of 480p -> 1080p results in an image that is not oversharpened.