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Old 13th September 2019, 04:29   #1821  |  Link
marcomsousa
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Adapt to multi-codec world or die, warns Bitmovin as AV1 escalates

Observing the video ecosystem from the video developer perspective is often overlooked, overshadowed somewhat by those higher up, so it was refreshing to read a report from encoding expert Bitmovin – giving the devs a well-deserved voice. Results from Bitmovin’s third annual developer survey showed an expectantly overwhelming reliance on H.264, although interestingly one-in-five developers plan to implement AV1 in 2020 – with big ramifications for the wider video industry. Device manufacturers, browser vendors, and content distributers like Cisco, Mozilla, and YouTube have already started implementing AV1 on larger scales, leading Bitmovin to conclude that AV1 is well positioned to compete with H.265/HEVC and to succeed VP9 for open-source use cases in 2020. This goes against the majority of conversations…
https://rethinkresearch.biz/articles...av1-escalates/
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Old 13th September 2019, 07:19   #1822  |  Link
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It's all "conservative politics", even in technology
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Old 13th September 2019, 09:14   #1823  |  Link
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What's conservative about adapting, or am I missing something in the full article?
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Old 14th September 2019, 19:04   #1824  |  Link
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If x265 and nvenc are the last encoders relevant for home users then I will miss building encoder GUIs, the first generations were painful but the last two generations were quite fun.
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Old 17th September 2019, 10:22   #1825  |  Link
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If x265 and nvenc are the last encoders relevant for home users then I will miss building encoder GUIs, the first generations were painful but the last two generations were quite fun.
There isn't anything codec-specific about nvenc. NVidia supports HW decode for multiple codecs, and can add more.

Something like 85% of new phones have HEVC HW decode, and we don't even have a release date for the first phone SoC that does hardware AV1. UHD Blu-ray and ATSC 3.0 are HEVC. There is going to be a substantial market for HEVC for a decade or more, just like there is still quite a lot of MPEG-2 still being encoded and delivered, and just like there will be a lot of H.264 for years too.

Heck, there was still Windows Media PlaysForSure content being published as of 2-3 years ago.
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Old 17th September 2019, 19:51   #1826  |  Link
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The usual threshold of hardware encoders is the limited temporal complexity. This hurts more for more advanced codecs taking more advantage of temporal redundancies. NVEnc may be a useful realtime encoder for AVC and HEVC. But it will be beaten easily if you can encode "offline" and spend more efforts into looking ahead.
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Old 20th September 2019, 19:07   #1827  |  Link
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There is lot of interest right now for HEVC 8k real time for the next sport events..
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Old 21st September 2019, 00:11   #1828  |  Link
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Phoronix has more benchmark numbers of SVT-AV1 v0.5 and dav1d v0.3, this time with the 48-core EPYC 7642:

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...pyc-7642&num=3
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Old 23rd September 2019, 08:32   #1829  |  Link
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There is lot of interest right now for HEVC 8k real time for the next sport events..
Which is crazy to me, I work with alot of UHD sport events, and we dont use enough bandwith already to do it justice, both on contribution and distribution side. The move to 8k is just beyond me, it must be tons of money from the monitor manufacturers cause I cant see any broadcasters or productions to see benefits in it. The price/performance ratio for UHD is already awful. I dont get the res craze, if you dont wanna spend the bits, dont increase it. Heck XDCAM50 (mpeg2 1080i) can still look better then what google is doing with 4k.

I would rather see a push for 1080p50/60, full 10bit pipline and rec2020 with a modern codec and a decent bitrate to replace the norm of 1080i/720p h264, cause it still looks amazing and takes way less effort and money to upgrade to. Cause most viewers wouldnt wanna finance an multi million dollar upgrade for some tech dreams, but I guess that we can still make them.

This is from an live/broadcast perspective mind you, VOD is a different scenario.

Last edited by excellentswordfight; 23rd September 2019 at 10:58.
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Old 24th September 2019, 20:44   #1830  |  Link
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I would rather see a push for 1080p50/60, full 10bit pipline and rec2020 with a modern codec and a decent bitrate to replace the norm of 1080i/720p h264, cause it still looks amazing and takes way less effort and money to upgrade to. Cause most viewers wouldnt wanna finance an multi million dollar upgrade for some tech dreams, but I guess that we can still make them.

This is from an live/broadcast perspective mind you, VOD is a different scenario.
And that is certainly what North American sports broadcasters are focused on for the next big thing: 1080p60 10-bit HEVC HDR.

Interest in broadcast 8K is mainly in countries like Japan. South Korea, and China where there is a lot more available RF to use and where TV production is material to the national economy.

It is an interesting question for how many bits with what codec where a higher resolution pays off. At 6 Mbps CBR, 1080p60 is obviously better than 4K. But going from 1080 H.264 to 1080 HEVC worked at similar bitrates. The next gen VVC codec looks like it might offer the efficiency to do 8K VVC at the same bitrates as 4K HEVC. But we're some years out from having practical real-time VVC 8K encoders. Even 8K HEVC is still emerging tech, although certainly being done in trails and such.
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Old 25th September 2019, 03:58   #1831  |  Link
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Even 8K HEVC is still emerging tech, although certainly being done in trails and such.
A 64core Zen2 Epyc processor can already do realtime 8k HEVC 10bit encoding, and at 79fps to boot:

https://www.techspot.com/news/81905-...l-time-8k.html


So if you only need 30fps or 24fps, or perhaps 50fps or 25fps for 50Hz territories, then you could get away with a considerably lower CPU core count.

Heck even for 60fps you could probably get away with a 48 core Epyc since, if the multi-threaded encoding scaling was 100%, you'd be seeing 59.25fps on a 48core Epyc. However, since multi-threaded encode scaling almost never perfectly scales with core-count, and since CPUs with fewer cores tend to also have higher base clocks, it'd be quite likely that you could even see slightly above the required 60fps from a "mere" 48core Zen2 Epyc processor.
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Last edited by Nintendo Maniac 64; 25th September 2019 at 04:01. Reason: forgot the word "realtime" (bit of an important detail)
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Old 25th September 2019, 08:46   #1832  |  Link
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And that is certainly what North American sports broadcasters are focused on for the next big thing: 1080p60 10-bit HEVC HDR.
So i noticed, "3G" seems to be much more a thing there than here in europe. Even if a broadcaster would like to switch to 1080p/3G most productions over here dont offer that contribution anyway. I visited a brand new station/studio in the states not that long ago, everything built on 1080p60, nothing for UHD.

I'm still not sold on HDR for live content tbh, I have played around with both PQ and HLG and both comes with backwards comparability to SDR issues and complexity, and to be frank the live productions I've seen had issues even i HDR. I'm all for "HDR" as a tech, but when it comes to real world live productions it creates a lot of headache, maybe to much for it to ever become mainstream. Something that just going 10bit (which productions in most cases already are) and just increasing the colorspace doesnt (rec2020 specc), and imo is good enough, especially on a high contrast tv-set like an oled.

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Interest in broadcast 8K is mainly in countries like Japan. South Korea, and China where there is a lot more available RF to use and where TV production is material to the national economy.
Yeah there is no suprice that it's the same countries that wanna push the consumer hw...

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Originally Posted by Nintendo Maniac 64 View Post
A 64core Zen2 Epyc processor can already do realtime 8k HEVC 10bit encoding, and at 79fps to boot:

https://www.techspot.com/news/81905-...l-time-8k.html


So if you only need 30fps or 24fps, or perhaps 50fps or 25fps for 50Hz territories, then you could get away with a considerably lower CPU core count.

Heck even for 60fps you could probably get away with a 48 core Epyc since, if the multi-threaded encoding scaling was 100%, you'd be seeing 59.25fps on a 48core Epyc. However, since multi-threaded encode scaling almost never perfectly scales with core-count, and since CPUs with fewer cores tend to also have higher base clocks, it'd be quite likely that you could even see slightly above the required 60fps from a "mere" 48core Zen2 Epyc processor.
Well, although it is impressive, without knowing the actual image quality and bitrate of the produced encode, it doesnt mean that much to me.

Last edited by excellentswordfight; 25th September 2019 at 09:24.
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Old 25th September 2019, 18:09   #1833  |  Link
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without knowing the actual image quality and bitrate of the produced encode, it doesnt mean that much to me.
If broadcasters were that concerned with quality and bitrate, then they wouldn't be pushing to broadcast 8k in the first place.
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Old 26th September 2019, 09:56   #1834  |  Link
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Broadcom BCM7218X STB SoC Comes With AV1 Hardware Decoding
https://www.cnx-software.com/2019/09...coding-wifi-6/
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Old 27th September 2019, 18:36   #1835  |  Link
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AV1 codec encoder/decoder implementation SVT-AV1 releases version 0.7.0, with more SIMD optimizations for performance, improved multithreading support, and more video features.
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Old 27th September 2019, 19:04   #1836  |  Link
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AV1 codec encoder/decoder implementation SVT-AV1 releases version 0.7.0, with more SIMD optimizations for performance, improved multithreading support, and more video features.
I get 11fps with a 1080p BD source. CPU ryzen 2600. Not bad.
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Old 29th September 2019, 12:59   #1837  |  Link
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New Phoronix tests with SVT-AV1 (0.6 and 0.7)

Link here.
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Old 29th September 2019, 17:33   #1838  |  Link
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New Phoronix tests with SVT-AV1 (0.6 and 0.7)

Link here: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...8280-Video-Enc
Don't forget they included dav1d v0.4.0 results as well, and they're not only measuring performance by FPS now but are even including the max and min FPS to boot.

And they're even testing 10bit AV1 decoding in dav1d! This makes me very happy since, from previous testing, I actually found dav1d's 10bit decode performance on typical consumer CPU thread counts (2 to 8 threads) to be slower than the reference AV1 decoder, so I'll be keeping an eye out for any future performance gains for 10bit AV1 decoding.


(for reference, their most recent review had used dav1d v0.3.0 and measured performance by seconds with 8bit only)
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Old 29th September 2019, 21:53   #1839  |  Link
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And they're even testing 10bit AV1 decoding in dav1d! This makes me very happy since, from previous testing, I actually found dav1d's 10bit decode performance on typical consumer CPU thread counts (2 to 8 threads) to be slower than the reference AV1 decoder, so I'll be keeping an eye out for any future performance gains for 10bit AV1 decoding.
There will be a lot to gain, the various SIMD issue/bugs on gitlab show basically nothing accelerated for 10 bit as yet, as they have been concentrating on 8 bit for all ISA currently:

AVX2.
SSSE3.
NEON.

Nevcariel mentioned something about 10 bit content not being available at the moment (broadcast, not test content ala Chimera), so I doubt it's a priority while there are still missing gaps in the 8 bit SIMD code, which there still is on NEON at the very least.

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Old 30th September 2019, 01:22   #1840  |  Link
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Nevcariel mentioned something about 10 bit content not being available at the moment
Well, non yar-har-fiddle-dee-dee content anyway.
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