madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[clsid]

NGU Sharp was designed for inputs that are of high quality (such as Bluray). While NGU AA works good for lower quality inputs as well.

[Siso]

Originally Posted by clsid

NGU Sharp was designed for inputs that are of high quality (such as Bluray). While NGU AA works good for lower quality inputs as well.

Is NGU Sharp a good option for blu-ray chroma upscaling, or NGU AA is ok?

[nevcairiel]

NGU Sharp is not really ideal for Chroma. If anything it would be wasted on Chroma, and if you have processing to spare, put it to work on Luma instead. NGU AA is decent for Chroma though.

[mclingo]

my eyes could be telling lies then, all my material is full bluray remux 1080p/4k so max quality, which is best allround for that, NGU sharp or AA?

[Asmodian]

Originally Posted by Siso

Is NGU Sharp a good option for blu-ray chroma upscaling, or NGU AA is ok?

I prefer NGU AA for chroma, chroma is usually not super detailed anyway and AA results in a cleaner chroma channel.

[Siso]

Originally Posted by Asmodian

I prefer NGU AA for chroma, chroma is usually not super detailed anyway and AA results in a cleaner chroma channel.

I see, I will keep NGU AA then.

[brazen1]

Feel free to correct and add additional thoughts. Is the following correct?

For 1:1 2160p rips, Luma is not as important as Chroma since there is nothing to upscale when using 2160p displays. Therefor, set Chroma as high as possible and then whatever is left over apply to other settings. Since Luma really is of no importance, it can be set as low resource intensive as possible such as Lanczos 3 taps without affecting visible picture quality. Doubling and quadrupling 2160p sources on a 2160p display is worthless.

For 1:1 rips or highly compressed rips with resolution under 2160p such as 1080p, 720p or 540p, Luma becomes much more important than Chroma due to the necessary upscaling for a 2160p display. Therefore, set Luma as high as possible and whatever resources are left over can then be applied to Chroma and other settings. Luma using NGU AA is preferred vs NGU Sharp although subjective and a matter of preference. Doubling 1080p for example would be beneficial when upscaling to 2160p and quadrupling would be worthless and better left disabled or left to madVR to decide. Quadrupling 540p for a 2160p display is more beneficial than doubling so doubling should be disabled or left for madVR to decide.

Not sure what to do with 720p? I've always had it at NGU AA (med) for Luma and Chroma letting madVR decide the rest of the settings.

[Asmodian]

This is a bit of a misunderstanding or over complicating setup or something.

For 1:1 2160p content luma is just as important as it always is. For upscaling cropped UHD (e.g. 2030p or something) you still want to prioritize luma quality over chroma. If you are not scaling luma at all then setting image upscaling to NGU AA very high will not take any GPU power, so you can set chroma upscaling to a higher quality option in this case. However, there is no reason to set luma upscaling to Lanczos 3 or something. Just set the trigger for doubling to 1.5x and quadrupling to 3x and configure 'if any (more) scaling needs to be done' as desired.

For 1:1 <2160p content. Again disabling quadrupling is not important for 1080p -> 2160p, madVR is already not going to use quadrupling for that. Disabling doubling for 540p makes no sense. Doubling twice is higher quality than direct quadrupling and NGU AA does not support direct quadrupling anyway. If your quadrupling is set to direct quadruple then doubling is not used so there is no need to specifically disable it (not that you can anyway).

For 720p I do like quadrupling, so I set activate quadrupling to 3.0x. This allows 720p and below to be quadrupled while anything higher than 720p, up to 1440p, is doubled and anything above that is only upscaled with Jinc AR (or as configured), and as always - only if needed.

[nsnhd]

Originally Posted by Asmodian

This is a bit of a misunderstanding or over complicating setup or something.

You are talking about chroma upscaling, right?
What about the chroma inside the NGU's in image upscaling ? When selecting NGU quality high/veryhigh you'll be able to choose that chroma as normal/high/very high. Is that chroma quality important and how to choose it ? Thanks

[Asmodian]

The chroma quality set there is automatically matched to the luma quality, no need to change it specifically. If you leave it on "let madVR decide" (recommended) madVR will use the same selection as luma, however for the chroma component of NGU image upscaling "very high" actually uses NGU medium for doubling and low for quadrupling. The only thing to tune is possibly turning down the chroma quality a bit if you are almost able to run luma on high or very high, so setting chroma to medium or low might allow a higher luma setting.

The chroma setting there is less important than the 'chroma upscaling' option.

[Grimsdyke]

Originally Posted by Grimsdyke

@ Madshi.
When I try to play a file with build 87 my TV turns black and then reports no input signal !! After turning off and on the TV MPC-BE has loaded the file but with wrong refresh rates, etc.
Build 86 works perfectly fine.

This problem is unfortunately still there even in the latest test build 91. I don't have an account at AVS so if anyone could alert Madshi of this issue it would be much appreciated.
(And, of course, if Madshi then wishes that I should register there for better/faster bug fixing I would do this.)

[Manni]

Originally Posted by Grimsdyke

This problem is unfortunately still there even in the latest test build 91. I don't have an account at AVS so if anyone could alert Madshi of this issue it would be much appreciated.
(And, of course, if Madshi then wishes that I should register there for better/faster bug fixing I would do this.)

You should definitely register on AVS and leave feedback in the thread there explaining your issue as precisely as possible, so that madshi can get more details from you if needed.

[brazen1]

Originally Posted by Asmodian

This is a bit of a misunderstanding or over complicating setup or something.

For 1:1 2160p content luma is just as important as it always is. For upscaling cropped UHD (e.g. 2030p or something) you still want to prioritize luma quality over chroma. If you are not scaling luma at all then setting image upscaling to NGU AA very high will not take any GPU power, so you can set chroma upscaling to a higher quality option in this case. However, there is no reason to set luma upscaling to Lanczos 3 or something. Just set the trigger for doubling to 1.5x and quadrupling to 3x and configure 'if any (more) scaling needs to be done' as desired.

For 1:1 <2160p content. Again disabling quadrupling is not important for 1080p -> 2160p, madVR is already not going to use quadrupling for that. Disabling doubling for 540p makes no sense. Doubling twice is higher quality than direct quadrupling and NGU AA does not support direct quadrupling anyway. If your quadrupling is set to direct quadruple then doubling is not used so there is no need to specifically disable it (not that you can anyway).

For 720p I do like quadrupling, so I set activate quadrupling to 3.0x. This allows 720p and below to be quadrupled while anything higher than 720p, up to 1440p, is doubled and anything above that is only upscaled with Jinc AR (or as configured), and as always - only if needed.

I wanted to thank you for taking the time to detail this for me.

Setting the trigger for doubling to 1.5x and quadrupling to 3x allowed me to bump all the settings to 'very high' for NGU AA Luma 2160p 60fps & 24fps profiles. I achieved Chroma NGU AA 'high' for 2160p 24fps & NGU AA 'low' for 60fps.

Setting the trigger for doubling to 1.5x and quadrupling to 3x for my 1080p (not sure those are correct for 1080p >2160p) profile yielded NGU Sharp 'medium' Luma doubling & direct quadruple 'very high' with any more scaling set to Jinc AR. Chroma is at NGU Sharp 'High'. I can still apply the denoising algo which is important for some of my compressed rips.

Do you consider these settings more correct now using my little GTX 960 4GB? Thanks again for the tips.

[tp4tissue]

Originally Posted by nevcairiel

This is only true if you can make use of the better black values, which means you need a pitch-black environment. Gaming screens and gaming setups, which is what we're talking about here right now, are not setup for that.

Also, the screen in question is not OLED. Context is important.

There is no User-determined context for HDR

HDR stipulates a darkened environment for viewing.

The guess work is taken out, if you want to view HDR TO SPEC, it has be a near dark room.. I forgot the exact number , something like 5cd/m^2

So from the perspective of FULLY respecting the director's intent.

THERE IS ONLY 1 way to view HDR, and that is in a Blackened room.

Since that is the case in writing, OLED and the Upcoming LMCL should be the only endpoints. All existing 1000 nit LCDs can GTFO.

I'd say anything above 300nit LCD side is plenty awful already.

[tp4tissue]

Originally Posted by Asmodian

I prefer NGU AA for chroma, chroma is usually not super detailed anyway and AA results in a cleaner chroma channel.

NO it is not, It is impossible to tell the difference between ANY of the chroma choices at real viewing distances in a normal image.

The only way to see any difference whatsoever for chroma is with your nose up against the TV, while flipping back and forth on high contrast edges.

[Asmodian]

Originally Posted by tp4tissue

NO it is not, It is impossible to tell the difference between ANY of the chroma choices at real viewing distances in a normal image.

Ok.

[janos666]

Originally Posted by DMU

Download "source" and comparison. AMD HDR vs TV player.

I plan to investigate this a bit further and more thoroughly (including the use of a DSLR instead of a smartphone camera) at a later date but here is an example of under-saturated HDR colors with AMD (-> see the attachments).
When the AMD output looks like this the TV's OSD info banner does not list Rec2020 (though no Rec709 or other standard either, the list is just shorter) whereas Rec2020 appears with nVidia and also with AMD when it happens to function as expected (nVidia seems to be reliable nowadays while the AMD is a random coin flip, sometimes it's fine, other times it's bad, I don't have enough data to tell what could cause this if there is any specific trigger).
And yes, now I am aware DXVA2 is broken but that "only" causes banding (a lot with AMD, a little with nVidia), not color gamut mismatch. I switched to D3D11 decoder on both systems by now.
NV HDR - AMD HDR

[Klaus1189]

@janos666: Please uploasd files to a filehoster, because we can not open the files uploaded direct here:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wdG...ew?usp=sharing

[tony359]

Hi there,

I have a question about MadVR and HDR. My projector is an Epson 9300, haven't really played with HDR much yet. Tonight I realised that with the latest nVidia drivers the projector switches to HDR when I play HDR (yay!) but when I go into full screen it goes back to SDR. Exclusive mode is disabled.
I read of people complaining of black screen when in full screen: I have picture but it goes back to SDR.

I am using MPC-HC 1.8.8, Windows 10 1903, nVidia drivers 431.70 and projector is directly connected to VPR.

Any help please?

Since I'm here, another unrelated question: if I play some older videos (in my case a 720x480 video), picture is not upscaled to full screen. What am I missing?

Thanks all!!

[DMU]

@janos666
I look forward to your research. Here are some more photos (oversaturation vs undersaturation) for comparison. True (built-in TV player) somewhere in the middle. AMD driver, which affects the color - 19.5.1. But if you install it under Windows 1903, the HDR does not work at all (the image will be dark).
Please tell me your photos of which movie? And what time code? Can you give a link or upload somewhere?