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Old 21st February 2016, 16:51   #36301  |  Link
Uoppi
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Originally Posted by huhn View Post
this shows the color boosting from reconstruction and the ringing i reported some weeks ago.
And this occurred with Reconstruction sharp, not soft, if I recall correctly?
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Old 21st February 2016, 16:55   #36302  |  Link
nevcairiel
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Originally Posted by Werewolfy View Post
I have a question. I see that there is an option to move the subtitles. Would it be possible to allow the user to change the color and the font too? I know it's easy with .srt files but I can't find a way to do it with DVD and Blu-Ray subtitles. I found that your option to move the subtitles works with Blu-Ray so I immediately thought to ask you if it would be possible.
DVD and Blu-ray subtitles are bitmaps (images), to change their font you would need to OCR and re-render them, nothing I would ever expect to happen.
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Old 21st February 2016, 17:03   #36303  |  Link
l0rdraiden
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Originally Posted by Unr3aL View Post
Are you, by any chance, running your screen at 120Hz or something? If yes try to use 60 Hz and see if that works...

MadVR never used to play nice with 120Hz in my case.

Greetz, Unr3aL67
Thanks a lot, as you pointed out at 60 Hz works fine, my monitor was at 144 Hz.

Is this a bug or known issue of Madvr? is there any plan or any way to fix it?

@madshi ?

Last edited by l0rdraiden; 21st February 2016 at 17:06.
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Old 21st February 2016, 17:04   #36304  |  Link
DragonQ
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Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
DVD and Blu-ray subtitles are bitmaps (images), to change their font you would need to OCR and re-render them, nothing I would ever expect to happen.
Seriously? Why would you ever use bitmaps for such a thing?
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Old 21st February 2016, 17:05   #36305  |  Link
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Originally Posted by FDisk80 View Post
I have the same problem if I use MPC-BE with internal filters.
But if I use MPC-BE with LAV filters the problem goes away.

Just tested and it's the same problem also with the latest madVR version.
Updated madvr and have the same problems too. I use LAV filters+madvr+ac3filter with MPC.
Black screen after skiping a video file to another in the same folder.
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Old 21st February 2016, 17:06   #36306  |  Link
nevcairiel
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Originally Posted by DragonQ View Post
Seriously? Why would you ever use bitmaps for such a thing?
Because font rendering is an annoying topic, and it greatly simplifies the required playback capabilities to just show images. Blu-ray subtitles can even include small images for commentary tracks or interactive elements.
While you can't do some of the transformations that you could with text subtitles, bitmap subtitles instead generally just work out of the box without having to worry about having the proper font, supporting the language and encoding the text is in, etc etc.

Blu-rays can actually include text subtitles, but its an extremely rarely used feature. I don't think I have a single disc that uses it, out of hundreds.
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Last edited by nevcairiel; 21st February 2016 at 17:10.
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Old 21st February 2016, 17:40   #36307  |  Link
XMonarchY
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Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
After 345 posts, I have a hard time believing any of your questions are serious? Do you really want an answer or are you trying to flood this forum with useless posts?

You must know what NNEDI3 is -- image doubling, not image upscaling. And of course not all of the downscaling options are Bicubic; they are no different than the image upscaling algorithms. Many probably use very similar approaches to image scaling, with similar math -- but they are not the same.
Yet I have it in Chroma Upscaling... So Chroma Upscaling is similar to Image Doubling? You're confusing me further. I visited this thread enough times to understand the most important aspect - the best image quality settings with flawless performance (no dropped/skipped/delay frames and/or no presentation glitches) on my rig and, generally speaking, how these settings compare against lower quality settings. Dithering, SuperRes, Sharpening, 3DLUT, color depth, 0-255/16-235 range, de-blocking/artifact reduction, smooth motion, Image Downscaling and Image Doubling/Quadrupling.

I know what Chroma is, what Luma is, what SuperRes does, but full understanding of Chroma Upscaling and Image Upscaling and the differences between them, as well as, differences between different types of processing for those functions is not yet present in my brain. I know what processing looks best (IMHO) and runs great on my rig.

Aside from my day-time job search, I get paid building, setting up, and optimizing Home-Theater Gaming PC's (which obviously includes settings up madVR!), as well as, calibrating displays/projectors for those interested in having a decent Home Theater with the best image quality their Home-Theater Gaming PC's can pull. The completely understanding of Chroma Upscaling and Image Upscaling is not necessary to perform the work I described above...

Do you really think most people visiting this thread have complete understanding of Chroma Upscaling and Image Upscaling and why there's NNEDI3 available for Chroma Upscaling, but not Image Upscaling, even though NNEDI3 is available for Image Doubling/Quadrupling??? I am sorry if my ignorance aggravated your mood....

I also asked about whether different processing names were equivalent to some form of Bicubic because some members reported little-to-no difference between SSIM and Bicubic 125/150 (whatever value). Thus, it possibly implies other processing types could also be equivalent to some Bicubic value.
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Old 21st February 2016, 17:56   #36308  |  Link
Ver Greeneyes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XMonarchY View Post
Yet I have it in Chroma Upscaling... So Chroma Upscaling is similar to Image Doubling?
Yes, it could just as well be called Chroma Doubling. It's only used for videos where the chroma channels are stored at a lower resolution than the luma channel (most videos, but not all, are stored with the chroma channels half as wide and half as tall as the luma channel). The chroma channel is doubled first (using data from the higher resolution luma channel in the case of Bilateral and Reconstruction), and then the other upscaling and downscaling options operate in (linear) RGB.
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Old 21st February 2016, 19:08   #36309  |  Link
huhn
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Originally Posted by Uoppi View Post
And this occurred with Reconstruction sharp, not soft, if I recall correctly?
yeah that should be the case not sure anymore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by markanini View Post
How does superXBR75 compare to reconstruction?
it's not nearly as sharp but it doesn't really mess up.
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Old 21st February 2016, 19:10   #36310  |  Link
huhn
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Originally Posted by tObber166 View Post
Hmm, something's wrong with DXVA Upscale colors

DXVA vs Spline
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/162815


DXVA vs Jinc
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/162814


It seems to only affect upscale, not DXVA downscale.
Anyone else who experienced this?


Using madvr 0.90.10
Nvidia 361.91
i guess checking your GPU settings is a start.

DXVA scaling can be affected by the GPU driver settings. which is a real problem.
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Old 21st February 2016, 19:21   #36311  |  Link
JarrettH
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If I had to visually judge between jinc, sxbr75, and reconstruction soft...

Reconstruction soft: softest of three, least artifacts

Jinc AR: middle sharpness, most aliasing

sxbr75: sharpest, low aliasing, most artifacts from ringing

Madshi said reconstruction sharp isn't something to rely on and soft is more performance optimized.
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Old 21st February 2016, 19:55   #36312  |  Link
James Freeman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
James can you share your videos? Thanks for testing it BTW, I wouldn't have considered it useful for chroma if you hadn't mentioned it.
I can not share, but I can tell you the name of the greatest movie for all chroma upscaling tests and share some pictures from it (under fair use).
The movie called Samsara (2011), it's one of the most beautiful Bluray discs every picture quality fan should own.

This movie is my "go to" for anything madVR testing.

Cheers

http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/d88...otcrv1cuzg.jpg
http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/087...mbdapxqtzg.jpg
http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/b05...6xw2qd2czg.jpg
http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/6cd...j4u64c44zg.jpg
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Last edited by James Freeman; 21st February 2016 at 20:03.
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Old 21st February 2016, 19:57   #36313  |  Link
huhn
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pls change the pictures to links. the image host is way to slow anyway.
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Old 21st February 2016, 20:00   #36314  |  Link
madshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
Madshi, anything useful in the ChromaReconstructor 3.0 update that can be applied to madVR?
Also, any chance of other options improving soft? Placebo soft? Soft AR? The sharp options seem pretty unusable as far as accuracy goes.
Would like something that's a mix of what Jinc AR and Reconstruction gives me essentially.
There is one new algo in 3.0 which might be useful, but probably rather soft. Maybe it would be an alternative to the current soft variant, I don't know. At this point I have too many other things to do to look into it. Chroma upscaling is not that important compared to some other things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunset1982 View Post
Will there be an option to customize the color of the seekbar in FSE mode when we arrive madvr 1.0? Are there plans to support chaptermarks? That would be really cool, so one vote from me! :-D
No plans right now. Maybe some time in the future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Telion View Post
Yes, this time the memleak is gone completely. Big thanks for all your efforts, madshi!
Good to hear, thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by x7007 View Post
NNEDI3 won't ever work with newer nvidia drivers with CUVID ?
I don't know. Ask NVidia. nevcairiel and I have reported the problem to them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FDisk80 View Post
I have the same problem if I use MPC-BE with internal filters.
But if I use MPC-BE with LAV filters the problem goes away.
Might be a bug in the internal filters, or a bug in madVR. Can't say much more with the limited information I have. I'd recommend using LAV, in any case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by clsid View Post
madshi,
MPC-HC menu > View > Statistics shows the wrong framerate when using madVR. With all other renderers it displays the playback framerate of the video (video framerate * playbackspeed). In case of madVR it shows the screen refresh rate.

According to U78 the info is gathered using "get_AvgFrameRate()" method provided by the "IQualProp" interface of the filter graph.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
Actually it shows the actually rendered frame rate on other renderers. I think madVR does the same thing, except that in some of the rendering modes its going to present a new frame for every VSYNC, hence showing screen refresh.

So I wouldn't necessarily call it wrong. If you use a mode that only presents every frame once, ie. D3D9 or Overlay, it shows what you might expect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by clsid View Post
I use D3D9. Disabling "present several frames in advance" indeed gives the framerate value I expected.
@clsid, please read the section "frame rates" here:

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/lib...(v=vs.85).aspx

It says that IQualProp described the "actual frame rate achieved during playback". What that means exactly is somewhat open for interpretation. From my point of view it's the number of frames per second that madVR is sending to the GPU for presentation. Some of those are duplicates, though, depending on the presentation mode. I suppose I could exclude those duplicates from the IQualProp stats. But to be honest, I don't find it very important, and as nevcairiel said, I don't really think what I'm doing right now is "wrong".

Is there a practical reason why you need this? Or is it just a "cosmetical" problem?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelGraves13 View Post
madshi, will you be extending the GPU queue to maybe 32 or 64 eventually? Same question for frames to present in advance.

I've noticed higher values produce smoother motion with smooth motion turned on. I'm guessing it has to do with how many frames are blended together.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
Present in advance can't be increased, thats a limit of the Direct3D API.
And personally I seriously doubt that increasing the queues increases the smoothness, as long as the value is high enough for the algorithm to work. It won't blend infinitely many frames, just the exactly right amount.
^ Agree with nevcairiel here. Higher queue sizes usually help against frame drops and presentation glitches, but that's the only real use for them. Do you get frame drops or presentation glitches? If not then I don't think higher queues would help in any way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
Unfortunately their OLEDs cost an arm and a leg.
True. But I fear in 2-3 years everything LCD/LED will be yesterday's tech. Also, if you're interested in HDR support, even 2016 models are still considered early adopter (meaning: throw away next year) models. Personally, I'll wait for 2017 or 2018 models. Hopefully OLED might be cheaper by then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thewildsun View Post
I have the same issue in PotPlayer and Windows 10. It doesn't make a difference if I use the latest LAV nightlies or PotPlayer's internal decoders. The only way I've been able to work around this issue is to uncheck D3D11 in madvr. Has anyone found a way to avoid the issue while keeping D3D11?
Not sure why that happens. Works fine for me. Have you tried different GPU drivers, maybe? Windows 10 is still somewhat problematic for HTPC use, unfortunately...

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlosCaco View Post
Madshi there is a way to reduce the perfomance hit on reconstrution placebo and sharp?
I don't think so, at least not without changing image quality. I've already written compute shaders to get the best performance possible. These algos are by design VERY power hungry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by James Freeman View Post
I painted a test pattern with thin and thick lines of blue and red circles in 4:4:4.
Then video captured the screen with CamStudio (screen recording software).
Then compressed the RGB (4:4:4) video through x264 to YCbCr 4:2:0 lossless.

I simply compared the original 4:4:4 video with the 4:2:0 video and chose a chrome upscaler which looks closest to the original 4:4:4 video.

To my eyes Super-XBR 150 almost recreates the thin chroma data without touching much the thick circles.
Be very careful with such tests, though, because the chroma position in a properly encoded video file must be offset in one direction by 0.5 pixels, but not both. Often with manually created test RGB images you end up with a video file which has the chroma channel in the wrong position, which would pretty much render all tests with that video invalid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
I've noticed that when anti-ringing is enabled with super-xbr and to a lesser degree Jinc (both with AR enabled and not along with some other scalers) can bring green tinges and possibly other colors if the source white contains some inside, which isn't ideal. This is only noticeable upon close inspection however.

The below screenshot comparison shows how bad this can be but you'd be hard pressed to notice it while watching.

super-xbr 150 vs super-xbr 150 AR
Yes, in this specific test image super-xbr 150 without AR looks better. But there are other tests images where it's the opposite, e.g. see aufkrawall's favorite Anime test video.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tObber166 View Post
Hmm, something's wrong with DXVA Upscale colors

DXVA vs Spline
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/162815

DXVA vs Jinc
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/162814

It seems to only affect upscale, not DXVA downscale.
Anyone else who experienced this?

Using madvr 0.90.10
Nvidia 361.91
Hmmmm... Could be a bug in madVR, or the NVidia driver doing weird stuff. In any case, the NVidia DXVA scaling implementation wasn't very good, last time I checked. Is your GPU so slow that you have to use it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Werewolfy View Post
I spent a long time playing with your upscaling refinement options but I can't find a correct setting for every contents. I admit that I'm not a fan of sharpening filters, it always sharpens the flaws in the picture (even if your edge enhancement is the best I've seen!) and the only one I can use is the Reality Creation from Sony. The thin edges option is quite good too on DVD anime but I don't want it on movies so it's still not a set and forget setting.
If my edge enhancement is the best you've seen then why can't you live with it, but you can live with Reality Creation? Doesn't that mean you think Reality Creation is the best edge enhancement you've seen? Just wondering...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Werewolfy View Post
I have a question. I see that there is an option to move the subtitles. Would it be possible to allow the user to change the color and the font too?
Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
DVD and Blu-ray subtitles are bitmaps (images), to change their font you would need to OCR and re-render them, nothing I would ever expect to happen.
For text subtitles, this is the job of the subtitle renderer which usually has such options available. For bitmap subtitles see nevcairiel's reply.

Quote:
Originally Posted by l0rdraiden View Post
Thanks a lot, as you pointed out at 60 Hz works fine, my monitor was at 144 Hz.

Is this a bug or known issue of Madvr? is there any plan or any way to fix it?
When running your monitor at 144Hz, please turn on the Ctrl+J OSD and check if the refresh rate is properly detected. If it is, are we talking about fullscreen exclusive mode or windowed mode? One thing you could try is to make the GPU queue bigger and increase the number of prepresented frames. That may help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leandronb View Post
Updated madvr and have the same problems too. I use LAV filters+madvr+ac3filter with MPC.
Black screen after skiping a video file to another in the same folder.
Every time? Or just sometimes? Are you using D3D11 presentation? What happens if you try D3D9 instead?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ver Greeneyes View Post
Yes, it could just as well be called Chroma Doubling. It's only used for videos where the chroma channels are stored at a lower resolution than the luma channel (most videos, but not all, are stored with the chroma channels half as wide and half as tall as the luma channel). The chroma channel is doubled first (using data from the higher resolution luma channel in the case of Bilateral and Reconstruction), and then the other upscaling and downscaling options operate in (linear) RGB.
FWIW, it used to be this way. And still is, if the video isn't downscaled by noticeable amount. For downscales madVR may decide to scale the chroma channel directly to the target resolution. Because of that it's not always "doubling", but it can also be just "chroma upscaling", or in extreme downscaling cases even "chroma downscaling".
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Old 21st February 2016, 20:19   #36315  |  Link
James Freeman
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Originally Posted by madshi
True. But I fear in 2-3 years everything LCD/LED will be yesterday's tech. Also, if you're interested in HDR support, even 2016 models are still considered early adopter (meaning: throw away next year) models. Personally, I'll wait for 2017 or 2018 models. Hopefully OLED might be cheaper by then.
We live in an exiting time indeed!
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Old 21st February 2016, 20:26   #36316  |  Link
nevcairiel
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
When running your monitor at 144Hz, please turn on the Ctrl+J OSD and check if the refresh rate is properly detected. If it is, are we talking about fullscreen exclusive mode or windowed mode? One thing you could try is to make the GPU queue bigger and increase the number of prepresented frames. That may help.
The only mode I found which worked decently on a 144Hz screen is D3D9 Overlay. All others have the present queue running nearly empty. Not sure why this is tied to the refresh rate though.
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Old 21st February 2016, 20:29   #36317  |  Link
Sunset1982
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunset1982 View Post
Will there be an option to customize the color of the seekbar in FSE mode when we arrive madvr 1.0? Are there plans to support chaptermarks? That would be really cool, so one vote from me! :-D


No plans right now. Maybe some time in the future.
Maybe you could add it to your todo list, even with low priority. Thx madshi!
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Old 21st February 2016, 20:45   #36318  |  Link
leandronb
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Every time? Or just sometimes? Are you using D3D11 presentation? What happens if you try D3D9 instead?
Just sometimes, after 2 or 3 episodes and is not episode related because when is not fullscreen i cann skip fine all the episodes.
I am using d3d9.
Right now an episode ended and auto skipped to the next, the screen went black, i quit fullscreen and return to previous episode then back to the next and worked fine. Is something related to fullscreen or refresh rate switch i think.
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Old 21st February 2016, 21:38   #36319  |  Link
FDisk80
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Anyone else seeing strange jitter when using MPC-BE + LAV + madVR with Exclusive Mode when seek bar is on screen?
I checked for frame drops or glitches but they are not registering.

When I reveal the seek bar I'm seeing Present queue dropping from "7-8 / 8" to "1-2 / 2".

Maybe this is the reason? Any way to fix this?

Strangely this jitter does not happen with internal MPE-BE filters instead of LAV.
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Old 21st February 2016, 21:58   #36320  |  Link
Stereodude
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tObber166 View Post
Hmm, something's wrong with DXVA Upscale colors

DXVA vs Spline
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/162815


DXVA vs Jinc
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/162814


It seems to only affect upscale, not DXVA downscale.
Anyone else who experienced this?


Using madvr 0.90.10
Nvidia 361.91
Check the settings in the video card control panel. Some of the color, brightness, or contrast setting have probably been changed.

Edit: I see several others have beaten me to the suggestion.

Last edited by Stereodude; 21st February 2016 at 22:03.
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