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Old 9th December 2017, 08:12   #47641  |  Link
Jesco
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Originally Posted by mclingo View Post
thanks but yes we already know this, NVIDIA cards work, several people have already stated this, AMD cards dont, I cant get mine to work anyway and nobody has stated their works either yet.

FSE has to be on for me or I get no MVC 3D.
Can you get 2D playing on your AMD, in FSE? As I stated yesterday, I can play 2D on my AMD in FSE without any problem. Using mpc-hc that is.
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Old 9th December 2017, 09:17   #47642  |  Link
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Wow! Really? Okay, cheers for this. You have been very helpful and I might as well wait and try and run your settings.bin until I have saved up for the 1080, as most of the material I watch is 720p@25fps and will be doing so on my new 4K TV.
To be honest disabling quadrupling for 720p is not a bad idea at all. Jinc offers very good quality for taking NGU doubled 720p to 2160p directly, the quality difference between that and downscaling from quadrupled 2880p is minor. My settings.bin is meant to maximize quality for a 1080 Ti+ user, not be an optimal quality/power point or anything close to that. It is the settings I use, minus changes I sometimes make for specific sources.

It would be interesting to create a few config options I consider optimal for different power levels without targeting specific GPUs. My current one would probably need to be called "heater mode". I do think I could do a much more reasonable profile for max quality, but without spending power just because it is available. I'll get started.
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Old 9th December 2017, 09:42   #47643  |  Link
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even lanczos3 for 1440p to 2160p using a 720p source is totally fine.
after doubling the benefits of a really good scaler have a huge diminishing return
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Old 9th December 2017, 09:49   #47644  |  Link
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even lanczos3 for 1440p to 2160p using a 720p source is totally fine.
after doubling the benefits of a really good scaler have a huge diminishing return
Really? for this!

You don't happen to have any recommended settings for watching 720p on a 2160p screen, using a GT740 (GDDR5), that I can use until I am able to get my hands on a GTX 1080?

A GT740 will not be able to do any doubling at all, will it?
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Old 9th December 2017, 09:54   #47645  |  Link
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To be honest disabling quadrupling for 720p is not a bad idea at all. Jinc offers very good quality for taking NGU doubled 720p to 2160p directly, the quality difference between that and downscaling from quadrupled 2880p is minor. My settings.bin is meant to maximize quality for a 1080 Ti+ user, not be an optimal quality/power point or anything close to that. It is the settings I use, minus changes I sometimes make for specific sources.

It would be interesting to create a few config options I consider optimal for different power levels without targeting specific GPUs. My current one would probably need to be called "heater mode". I do think I could do a much more reasonable profile for max quality, but without spending power just because it is available. I'll get started.
That'd be incredibly helpful!

I have stuck with v. 0.87.10 longer than I should and mostly because the amount of options now make my head spin.
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Old 9th December 2017, 15:54   #47646  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
To be honest disabling quadrupling for 720p is not a bad idea at all. Jinc offers very good quality for taking NGU doubled 720p to 2160p directly, the quality difference between that and downscaling from quadrupled 2880p is minor. My settings.bin is meant to maximize quality for a 1080 Ti+ user, not be an optimal quality/power point or anything close to that. It is the settings I use, minus changes I sometimes make for specific sources.

It would be interesting to create a few config options I consider optimal for different power levels without targeting specific GPUs. My current one would probably need to be called "heater mode". I do think I could do a much more reasonable profile for max quality, but without spending power just because it is available. I'll get started.
That'd be pretty sweet, actually. I just started over with my 1060 settings now that I've rebuilt the machine with the replacement. I suspect I'm going to start tweaking it again, but, I'm only doing 1080p on a panny plasma. Still, it'd be nice to have everything setup properly for when my golden goose comes in and I can buy a 2016 LG OLED 3D capable 4k screen. LMAO My 1060 is 6gb and works very well for 1080p....no surprise there.
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Old 10th December 2017, 10:46   #47647  |  Link
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GTX1070: Can use NGU Sharp/very high luma, with Lanczos3AR (only NGU high with JincAR), with NGU AA/Sharp high chroma & medium strength RCA, instead of high strength setting. Still comparing, Lanczos3AR vs JincAR. Best choice, might, depend on need for RCA high strength & Madashi, said, he is working on "free" RCA high, for use, with NGU Sharp. Thanks for this.

Sorry for being a n00b; what's "RCA"?
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Old 10th December 2017, 10:55   #47648  |  Link
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Remove Compression Artifacts
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Old 10th December 2017, 11:11   #47649  |  Link
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Remove Compression Artifacts
Thanks! I must be blind, can't find that option at all (I'm on 0.92.4).
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Old 10th December 2017, 11:15   #47650  |  Link
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Not blind, it was added in 0.92.5..
Just update your madVR already. Also a new version will probably be out in the next few days.
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Old 10th December 2017, 11:21   #47651  |  Link
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Not blind, it was added in 0.92.5..
Just update your madVR already. Also a new version will probably be out in the next few days.
Ok. Thanks.
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Old 10th December 2017, 11:49   #47652  |  Link
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Try lowering the the "how many video frames shall be presented in advance: to 4 or less than default of 8. It worked for me on my AMD card.
I tried this yesterday and it did not solve the problem. Actually, the problem is that FSE sometimes locks my RX 480. My both screens go black and they are (often) frozen. Then I need to reset my PC.

Last edited by HillieSan; 10th December 2017 at 12:04.
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Old 10th December 2017, 12:10   #47653  |  Link
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HLG support?

@Madshi

I posted about this by mistake here https://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php...&postcount=403

As Nev has confirmed HLG wasn't supported yet, any chance we could add support for it, even if only in passthrough?

At the moment it's mostly demo files, but real content is coming, at least in streaming/broadcast in the UK/EU/Japan, for example this http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-42225220.

As it's much easier to implement than Dolby Vision, it would be nice to have such support in MadVR/MadTPG, not necessarily for playback but for testing/calibration, especially of non HLG compatible displays such as the pre-2018 JVCs (already have implemented an experimental HLG gamma curve on my rs500, it seems to be working great).
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Old 10th December 2017, 12:36   #47654  |  Link
mclingo
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I tried this yesterday and it did not solve the problem. Actually, the problem is that FSE sometimes locks my RX 480. My both screens go black and they are (often) frozen. Then I need to reset my PC.
same happens here, however, i think this is a driver issue as if i go back to 17.10.2 several things happen.

1. lockups change to hdmi loss instead which can be retrived with a devcon reset so no need to power cycle PC.

2. using 1080p24 / 2160p24 instead of 23p works again, I get no frame drops or repeats in hours.

3. HDR plays ok but is choppy, no frame drops, I think this driver version breaks HEVC decoding.

So we either use latest version of everything and get random lockups, I get them sometimes when FSE is disabled when coming out of HDR stuff so DIRECT3d is also problematic, I think its the 23p thing, could me my LG OLED doesnt properly support that.

or we have a reasonable stable system on older drivers and no HDR playback.

I'm yet to try any later ATI versions, i'm getting a bit tired of all this now.

I may even put my Gefore 1050 back in.
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Old 10th December 2017, 12:59   #47655  |  Link
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might of stumbled on a sweet spot for 4K RX users using KODI DS (havent tried MPC yet)

- AMD driver 17.11.2 (fixes HEVC HDR playback - seems to be on the only stable drive, latest locks up using FSE
- Use 1080p for KODI DS GUI, if you use 4k when you stop a movie, usually a 3D one you get HDMI loss which can only be retrieved with a DEVCON restart.
- use FSE in MADVR to get 3D MVC (doesnt work without)
- use DIRECT3D in MADVR - HDR passthrough doesnt work without.
- use full screen window in KODI DS, seem more stable.
- user 24p display modes not 23p, this also causes lockups and HDMI loss for me but it could be an issue with my LG OL

i'll need a few days to see how stable this is, KODI doesnt tend to switch back to 4k desktop on closing but i've had this problem for ages so its unrelated.
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Old 10th December 2017, 13:00   #47656  |  Link
HillieSan
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same happens here, however, i think this is a driver issue as if i go back to 17.10.2 several things happen.
I think it only happens with NGU. I will check this probably this evening.

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2. using 1080p24 / 2160p24 instead of 23p works again, I get no frame drops or repeats in hours.
Good to hear :-)

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3. HDR plays ok but is choppy, no frame drops, I think this driver version breaks HEVC decoding.
I had this problem too. I can't remember exactly what i did to solve it. I do remember that it was a weird problem, because I thought that all settings were correct. One more thing I had to do was to add "2160p23, 2160p24, 2160p25, 2160p59, 2160p60" to display modes->list all display modes madVR may switch to->. Otherwise madVR picked the wrong frequency and it selected to wrong resolution (1080 instead of 2160).

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So we either use latest version of everything and get random lockups, I get them sometimes when FSE is disabled when coming out of HDR stuff so DIRECT3d is also problematic, I think its the 23p thing, could me my LG OLED doesnt properly support that.
Except for the lockups with FSE, all is working fine with the RX 480. HDR and 4K works good. I use the latest Windows version and the latest drivers.

EDIT: use D3D11 and not D3D9 in LAV and madVR

Last edited by HillieSan; 10th December 2017 at 14:51.
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Old 10th December 2017, 15:08   #47657  |  Link
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bitdepth, dithering and scaling

Although the following quotes are from years ago, since they are still up do date and worth to be discussed, I want to bring up the following again, especially based on what Madshi posted at that time.

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@Mark, all the resampling filters are a compromise between aliasing, sharpness and ringing. There is no filter which is best in every category.
Considering that video signals are essentially the same as audio signals, I wonder why in practice it seems to be such a challenge to get it right in the video domain. I might be corrected but I think when it comes to audio, taking any voodoo/audiophile arguments aside, filters which leave the usable bandwidth quite intact while suppressing any other range which could cause aliasing are rather easily achievable using cheap and decent technics nowadays.

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Do you want higher frequency response and live with ugly jaggies? Or do you want smooth jaggies and can live with a lower frequency response?
So what is the reason that already when it comes to low-pass-filtering of images it seems to be such a trade-off between sharpness and aliasing to be made still in 2017?

For anyone considering my comparison between video and audio far-fetched and "unorthodox": both are the same phenomenon at least in their waveform appearance - amplitude change over time. So any video signal, be it 4K in BT2020 or whatever nowadays fancy color space could be represented by a pure analog waveform to be digitized. Hence I wonder why a downscale is still such a challenge. Couldn't one apply the same already proven tools theoretical in the analog domain of the signal to archieve better results then?

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However, dithering down to 8bit should produce very good results. I don't think anyone could see a difference between dithered 8bit and 10bit.
I'd be interesting in your opinion on the following:

Wouldn't it be possible to reproduce any color space and any gamut and any brightness and gradient with any bitdepth, be it one bit only given ideal dither implementation? The only drawback of lower bitdepth should be a higher noise floor, effectively preventing darker tones to be resolved as they would be masked by the dither and quantization noise of course. Hence I'm not saying that the bitdepth is irrelevant but I'd claim that any color or tonal variation should be able to effectively displayed with whatever bitdepth down to the noise floor at least.

Audio domain teaches that when applying either, there are no stair steps or discrete loudness levels depending on the bitdepth but only the noise floor which is getting higher of about 6dB per bit. That the smoothness of an audio signal depends on the sampling rate or bitdepth is a very common misconception so I wonder why it is still so common with pictures and video. Everywhere, one can read "the higher the bitdepth, the higher the available steps", etc.

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Yes, please. madVR will most probably never do any kind of intermediate frame interpolation. So this discussion doesn't really belong here.
Well, at least from an admittedly quite theoretical point of view, the signal theory would dictate you to do so because the individual frames of a movie are snapshots or samples according to Nyquist/Shannon which - just as pixels - were never supposed to be shown separately but reconstructed as a continuous movement.

Most people would say that the higher a frame rate, the smoother the movie and movement of a movie will become. Theoretically, that's not true: the only thing which changes is the nyquist frequency. In that case: what speed of movement can be reconstructed without aliasing. Anything else, including the frame-by-frame display of a movie - strictly speaking - is wrong to begin with.

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Basically it's the same as with dithering vs debanding: Dithering tries to make sure that madVR processing does not add new banding artifacts.
I recognized that when making a screenshot of a movie when using madVR and dithering to 1-bit only, while error diffusion dithering results in images containing only up to 8 colors just as to be expected, with random dithering, several thousand colors are counted and I wonder why. Apparently, some fusion between neighbour pixels takes place, raising the amount of colors, but why?
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Old 10th December 2017, 16:57   #47658  |  Link
mclingo
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what magic are people using to get decent timings out of their nvidia cards, got a 1050 and no matter what I do cant better 23.971. I tried adding a custom res, when I set it as 23hz and 23.976 it saves it as a 24hz res and changes the time to 24,000, cant get the settings to hold at all, what am i doing wrong?

I set it up, click test, it all looks ok but when its saved it all wrong.
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Old 11th December 2017, 08:23   #47659  |  Link
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madVR 0.92.10 is out.
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Old 11th December 2017, 08:34   #47660  |  Link
oldpainlesskodi
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madVR 0.92.10 is out.
Yep, been putting it through it's paces.

https://www.videohelp.com/software/madVR

The Doom9 site has been down, so I would expect Madshi to post here later.

K

Last edited by oldpainlesskodi; 11th December 2017 at 08:38.
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