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Old 24th October 2019, 03:57   #57681  |  Link
huhn
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if you play a 23p file at 59p you are "repeating" 12 frames every second.
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Old 24th October 2019, 09:24   #57682  |  Link
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I have noticed inconsistent behaviour when upscaling DVD to 4k, it behaves something like it isn't upscaling for some period of time and then it corrects itself and starts upscaling again. This can happen at arbitrary times, e.g. within a single scene without having touched any playback controls or changed any settings.

An example to illustrate, I created these by just replaying a scene on a loop. It rendered it "correctly" v few times, it is mostly looking bad. Look at the guy on the wire for the obvious difference. The fact this is two different frames is irrelevant btw as the effect occurs regularly on different content, i.e. it's not specific to one scene or one particular source file.

Anyone seen something like this before? Any tips on how to resolve?

Bad - https://ibb.co/7YLkcg9
Good - https://ibb.co/P6VwpKD
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Old 24th October 2019, 10:02   #57683  |  Link
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Your screenshots are very low resolution, making it hard to judge anything, or even read the madVR OSD at all. Perhaps upload the original screenshots to a better image host?
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Old 24th October 2019, 10:04   #57684  |  Link
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This is not an issue with upscaling. It is due to deinterlacing working well or not. madVR either uses the GPU hardware for deinterlacing or it has its own IVTC algorithm if you put it in film mode. This behavior should depend on the DVD itself, is it telecined or true interlaced?

On that note, you do not want to use 25 Hz for this DVD. It is being deinterlaced to 50 fps, as indicated by the 20ms frame time.

Edit:
Your rendering times are very high for a 20ms frame time, perhaps the deinterlacer is getting confused due to performance issues? Try turning down the NGU 4x to medium, or maybe only double with NGU high, for testing. (maybe a problem with paused OSD... I shouldn't pay too much attention to the rendering times when paused. )

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Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
Your screenshots are very low resolution, making it hard to judge anything, or even read the madVR OSD at all. Perhaps upload the original screenshots to a better image host?
On desktop (Chrome) I got a link on the image to download the full resolution, which did get a good image.
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Last edited by Asmodian; 24th October 2019 at 10:11.
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Old 24th October 2019, 10:14   #57685  |  Link
nevcairiel
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Oh now I see it. Thats some bad UX for an image host.
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Old 24th October 2019, 10:59   #57686  |  Link
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Yeah definitely upscaling correctly, the obvious NGU upscaling can be seen throughout the image, definitely a deinterlacing issue.
You may wish to change between deinterlacing types to see what yields the best result.
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Old 24th October 2019, 12:17   #57687  |  Link
3ll3d00d
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
This is not an issue with upscaling. It is due to deinterlacing working well or not. madVR either uses the GPU hardware for deinterlacing or it has its own IVTC algorithm if you put it in film mode. This behavior should depend on the DVD itself, is it telecined or true interlaced?
thanks

I'm not 100% sure how to tell if it is telecined or not, mediainfo reports


Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 25.000 FPS
Scan type : Interlaced
Scan order : Top Field First


with regards to the "deinterlacing on" or "deinterlacing off" message, am I correct in thinking this refers to whether madvr or upstream is doing the deinterlacing? i.e. if on then madvr is deinterlacing, if off then something upstream is doing it.
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Old 24th October 2019, 14:11   #57688  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Furgiuele View Post
if in doubt, deactivate deinterlacing, disable automatic source type, force video mode [...]
I've issue to watch 29.970 fps videos, with a lot of dropped frames, motion juddering and stuttering. I have a lot of concerts with this fps (Diana Krall, Carlos Santana, Miles Davis, ecc.).
Based on your description, what could be happening is those 29,970 fps concerts are telecined, and as you are forcing video mode they are deinterlaced with very bad quality to 59,94 fps and you have 3:2 motion judder, but it's hard to be sure without knowing what the source is: Blu-ray? DVD? TV?
Try to enable film mode for those concerts (you can assign a keyboard shortcut key to it) and see if it is better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ll3d00d View Post
with regards to the "deinterlacing on" or "deinterlacing off" message, am I correct in thinking this refers to whether madvr or upstream is doing the deinterlacing? i.e. if on then madvr is deinterlacing, if off then something upstream is doing it.
No, it just informs on what is the source of madVR's decision to deinterlace or not. In this case the upstream filter, i.e. video decoder, says it's interlace so madVR deinterlaces.
This looks to be a PAL DVD you're playing. In most cases with films on PAL DVDs you can just force disable deinterlacing and you will get a 25 fps progressive image (I've got only one PAL DVD in my film collection where this isn't the case). You will then see 'deinterlacing off' and 'frame time 40 ms'
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Last edited by el Filou; 24th October 2019 at 14:15.
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Old 24th October 2019, 14:34   #57689  |  Link
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Hi. I post a question yesterday. Please, can someone help me?
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Old 24th October 2019, 14:37   #57690  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Furgiuele View Post
Hi. I'm Italian and new on this forum and I don't speak English very well.
I appreciate a lot the guide about MadVR and I'm trying to optimize it for my needs.
I have a htpc with MSI Z390A-pro mobo, I5-9600K cpu, 16 Gb ram, Nvidia 1660 gpu, bd drive, ssd and nas with a lot of concerts and movies ripped from br discs.
I have a Sony VPL-vw870es (calibrated BT2020) as projector and a Trinnov Altitude 16 as processor. I use Jriver Media Center 25 with MadVR, but I don't like to use more than one setup.
So I set MadVR with PC levels 0-255,10 bit, already calibrated BT2020 pure power curve 2.20, 2160p23, 24, 25, 29, 30, 50, 60, tone map HDR using pixel shaders, tp 100, BT2390, highlight medium, measure each frame's peak; if in doubt, deactivate deinterlacing, disable automatic source type, force video mode, only look at pixels in the frame center; chroma ups. NGU Antialias medium, image ups. luma NGU Sharp, luma qu. direct qudrupole very high, chroma high; "use Direct3D 11..." and " "present a frame for every VSync" flagged in general settings, smooth motion only if there would be motion judder; ordered dithering, no flag in trade for quality.
It works very fine with all 23.970 fps videos (4k hdr, fhd, etc.), without interlacing. But I've issue to watch 29.970 fps videos, with a lot of dropped frames, motion juddering and stuttering. I have a lot of concerts with this fps (Diana Krall, Carlos Santana, Miles Davis, ecc.).
Can someone help me?
Thanks.
Please, can someone help me?
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Old 24th October 2019, 14:57   #57691  |  Link
ashlar42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Furgiuele View Post
Please, can someone help me?
You need to be patient. Nobody is payed here to provide assistance. Everybody does it in his/her free time. Be patient and somebody capable enough will try to help you, I'm sure.
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Old 24th October 2019, 15:00   #57692  |  Link
mclingo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Furgiuele View Post
Please, can someone help me?
have you created a custom display mode in MADVR for 29.970?

disply modes/custom modes/add
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Old 24th October 2019, 16:56   #57693  |  Link
Klaus1189
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@Furgiuele:
See post #547 in AMD, Intel and Nvidia driver issues and last recommended version
Don't use 25Hz, 29Hz and 30Hz modes, madvr picks these three first, so delete them, if you want to play properly interlaced content which has double "motion resolution" by creating fields (top field and bottom field) and not frames and store two fields in one frame.
But use 2160p for your setup, if you have "4K" Equipment

Last edited by Klaus1189; 24th October 2019 at 17:08.
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Old 24th October 2019, 17:02   #57694  |  Link
huhn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ll3d00d View Post
I have noticed inconsistent behaviour when upscaling DVD to 4k, it behaves something like it isn't upscaling for some period of time and then it corrects itself and starts upscaling again. This can happen at arbitrary times, e.g. within a single scene without having touched any playback controls or changed any settings.

An example to illustrate, I created these by just replaying a scene on a loop. It rendered it "correctly" v few times, it is mostly looking bad. Look at the guy on the wire for the obvious difference. The fact this is two different frames is irrelevant btw as the effect occurs regularly on different content, i.e. it's not specific to one scene or one particular source file.

Anyone seen something like this before? Any tips on how to resolve?

Bad - https://ibb.co/7YLkcg9
Good - https://ibb.co/P6VwpKD
you are deinterlacing 25i to 50p which is the correct thing to do for a deinterlacer but you are displaying it at 25 which creates all kind of problems.

the next issue you are dropping frames and quite a lot of them because of some render spikes it seems hard to judge screens are from the paused state.

hardware deinteralcing needs to get a constant stream of frames not feeding it one frame my already break it so try a different player/decoder and it needs multiply frames to kick in so you can skip into the file and look at the frame it needs like 3 or frames to even start working.
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Old 24th October 2019, 18:16   #57695  |  Link
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Can't remember which one is better for creating a custom resolution - nvidia control panel or cru 1.4.1.
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Old 24th October 2019, 18:17   #57696  |  Link
3ll3d00d
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
you are deinterlacing 25i to 50p which is the correct thing to do for a deinterlacer but you are displaying it at 25 which creates all kind of problems.
what sort of problems?

I don't watch many DVDs admittedly but I haven't noticed any issues (apart from the deinterlacing one). I'm bandwidth constrained (due to HDBaseT) til I can run a new hdmi cable anyway.

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the next issue you are dropping frames and quite a lot of them because of some render spikes it seems hard to judge screens are from the paused state.
there always seem to be a few dropped frames when playback starts, the stats shown are from pausing and jumping back and forth so aren't indicative of normal behaviour. i.e. it isn't regularly dropping frames in normal playback.

Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
hardware deinteralcing needs to get a constant stream of frames not feeding it one frame my already break it so try a different player/decoder and it needs multiply frames to kick in so you can skip into the file and look at the frame it needs like 3 or frames to even start working.
It would stick in that state for a prolonged period of time as opposed to flickering in and out. As far as I can see, switching the config in LAV so madvr is presented with an already deinterlaced stream seems to produce a better result. I'm not sure exactly what is changing in this case though as I'm comparing my LAV config to the jriver packaged version (which they don't expose config for)
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Old 24th October 2019, 18:25   #57697  |  Link
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@3ll3d00d
Take a look at my previous post, same issue here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klaus1189 View Post
See post #547 in AMD, Intel and Nvidia driver issues and last recommended version
Don't use 25Hz, 29Hz and 30Hz modes, madvr picks these three first, so delete them, if you want to play properly interlaced content which has double "motion resolution" by creating fields (top field and bottom field) and not frames and store two fields in one frame.
But use 2160p for your setup, if you have "4K" Equipment
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Old 24th October 2019, 19:57   #57698  |  Link
Furgiuele
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Sorry!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashlar42 View Post
You need to be patient. Nobody is payed here to provide assistance. Everybody does it in his/her free time. Be patient and somebody capable enough will try to help you, I'm sure.
Sorry! And thanks to all of you.
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Old 24th October 2019, 20:15   #57699  |  Link
Furgiuele
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[QUOTE=el Filou;1888560]Based on your description, what could be happening is those 29,970 fps concerts are telecined, and as you are forcing video mode they are deinterlaced with very bad quality to 59,94 fps and you have 3:2 motion judder, but it's hard to be sure without knowing what the source is: Blu-ray? DVD? TV?
Try to enable film mode for those concerts (you can assign a keyboard shortcut key to it) and see if it is better.

Thanks!!! It solves my issue. I disabled "automatically activate deinterlacing..." and I flagged "disable automatic source... force film mode... only look at pixels...". Now no dropped frames, no stutter, no judder"! Can I leave this settings for all my videos? I have all blu ray discs ripped (fhd and uhd)...
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Old 24th October 2019, 20:22   #57700  |  Link
Furgiuele
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Sorry, I have another question. I have a Sony vpl-vw870es prjector (laser lamp with 2200 lumen). MadVR v0.92.17. In devices, my device, hdr, I flagged "tone map HDR using pixel shaders", "measures each frame's peak..." and "output video in HDR format". How many nits I've to wright in "target peak nits"? Thanks.
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