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Old 17th December 2016, 00:49   #25361  |  Link
Lathe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ch3vr0n View Post
No such thing as PAL or NTSC huh? You try telling that to the DVD alliance. Try playing a PAL DVD on a NTSC player. You'll have either A) no video, B) no audio, C) glitchy B&W video, D) all of the previous. There's no such thing as pal or ntsc FOR BLU-RAY only. On DVD's it's very much existing.
Oh great... you woke up Ch3vr0n...

Thanks a LOT Mr. Video!
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Old 17th December 2016, 03:24   #25362  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Ch3vr0n View Post
No such thing as PAL or NTSC huh? You try telling that to the DVD alliance. Try playing a PAL DVD on a NTSC player. You'll have either A) no video, B) no audio, C) glitchy B&W video, D) all of the previous. There's no such thing as pal or ntsc FOR BLU-RAY only. On DVD's it's very much existing.
The digital video is neither PAL, nor NTSC. It is either 480i59.94 or 576i50. It is the ANALOG OUTPUT of the player that is either NTSC or PAL. So, 480i DVDs are meant for NTSC output DVD players and 576i DVDs are meant for PAL output DVD players.

Take that same DVD and play it in your computer and I'll bet that it won't have any problem being displayed, no mater the resolution or frame rate. The only issue could possibly be the damn region coding.

Overseas you will find it really difficult to find a DVD player that will not play both 480i and 576i DVDs. It has been that way for ages, because people imported a lot of US releases and basically forced the selling of multi-standard DVD players. Many TVs/monitors were also multi-standard.

That said, I have an older DVD player that will handle all regions and both frame rates. Because it is sold in the U.S., it outputs the video as NTSC. Only because multi-standard TVs were not the norm here.

I now have a Blu-ray/DVD player that is all region (BD or DVD) and will play all resolutions.
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Old 17th December 2016, 03:58   #25363  |  Link
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Originally Posted by jdobbs View Post
I wish people would stop saying that. They both still exist. Things still fail when attempting to use the wrong standard in the other parts of the world. Constantly telling people they can ignore it is incorrect and not helpful.
I never say that anyone can ignore the frame rate on a DVD. You have to know what your playback equipment is capable of. In the old analog only days, especially here in the U.S., the playing of 576i DVDs was pretty difficult. The playing of 480i DVDs overseas was a lot more common (see previous posting). Since we in the U.S. had the wealth of DVDs available, the demand for 576i playback just wasn't called for. Because I prefer the original 576i50 DVD releases for Doctor Who, I bought a modified DVD player that was region free and would convert 576i50 to 480i59.94 so that I could watch them on my NTSC only TV.

Since DVD encryption was hacked ages ago, software became available that not only allowed for the copying of DVDs, it also allowed for the ignoring of the region codes. That allowed people to play 576i region 2,4 DVDs on their computers. No such thing as PAL/NTSC when playing DVDs on a computer system.
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By the way, I just did a search and the term NTSC is referenced more than 40 times in the Blu-Ray standard.
I'd have to see how the terms PAL and NTSC are used. The Blu-ray standard is many years old and terms like PAL and NTSC can be mis-used easily. Look up the technical definitions of PAL and NTSC and you will find that they are analog only, not digital in any shape or form, especially since digital video was unheard of when the standards were created.

I will always try and point out that NTSC and PAL no longer exists in the mainstream. Yes, there are still those that only have DVD players and possibly only analog TVS. But, the main stream these days is digital, either HD or SD (for those damn subchannels). Ever since Jan 1, 2014, Blu-ray players could no longer be manufactured with analog outputs, HDMI only (there were execptions). No more NTSC, or PAL, analog outputs. No more NTSC, or PAL, period. The HDMI display device needed to be able to handle the frame rates of the user's discs. Hard to believe, but there seem to be display devices that do not handle 576i50. While looking for a computer display device (VGA/DVI/HDMI), it was hard find those that listed the complete specs. Most were generic listings.

I hope you all can see where I am coming from.
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Old 17th December 2016, 03:59   #25364  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Lathe View Post
Oh great... you woke up Ch3vr0n...

Thanks a LOT Mr. Video!
It is a dirty job, but someone has to do it.
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Old 17th December 2016, 05:09   #25365  |  Link
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Just a general rule of thumb -- anytime it takes that many words to explain why you're right... you usually aren't.
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Old 17th December 2016, 06:11   #25366  |  Link
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Originally Posted by jdobbs View Post
Just a general rule of thumb -- anytime it takes that many words to explain why you're right... you usually aren't.
Heh heh... you really are terrible JD...

I think we are just dealing with 'semantics' here guys...
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Old 17th December 2016, 14:35   #25367  |  Link
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3D source with several 3D clips:
a. When selecting Full backup mode all 3D clips are reencoded/remuxed in MVC format
b. When selecting Full backup mode and selecting "Enable SBS/OU 3D Movie-Only output", all clips are encoded as 2D only, and none as 3D SBS.
Would it be possible to have all 3D clips encoded SBS/OU for case b. (=Full backup in SBS/OU format)?
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Old 17th December 2016, 14:41   #25368  |  Link
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Originally Posted by jdobbs View Post
Just a general rule of thumb -- anytime it takes that many words to explain why you're right... you usually aren't.
And sometimes a short explanation isn't good enough.
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Old 17th December 2016, 15:06   #25369  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Lathe View Post
I think we are just dealing with 'semantics' here guys...
There have been people who have labeled 1080i/p 59.94/29.97 as NTSC and 1080i50 as PAL. Impossible. DGDecNV's status column on the left used to label HD video as NTSC as well. Several versions ago after I posted on his forum that NTSC/PAL HD doesn't exist, he removed the label. I do not remember if he still labels SD video as NTSC/PAL, since I haven't sent 480i, or 576i, thru the program in ages.

What started all of this off was a poster wanted to convert 576i to 480i Blu-ray. I should run a test with a Doctor Who DVD to see if just repackaging the MPEG-2 files onto a Blu-ray will play in one of my older Blu-ray players. I know it will play in the newest player as it will play the DVD itself just fine. If the Samsung player that I have does, it wouldn't mean that every other manufacturer's Blu-ray player will. It isn't mandatory that U.S. players play 25/50.

Now I'm curious to see if it will work, or not.
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Old 17th December 2016, 15:35   #25370  |  Link
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A player with the Blu-Ray logo (certified) must play 720x576i25 and 720x576p25. I don't think that this is an option which is left to the mood or preference of the manufacturer.
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Old 17th December 2016, 16:21   #25371  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Sharc View Post
A player with the Blu-Ray logo (certified) must play 720x576i25 and 720x576p25. I don't think that this is an option which is left to the mood or preference of the manufacturer.
Not according the Blu-ray Demystified book. It is the layman's book to the Blu-ray specification.
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Old 17th December 2016, 17:27   #25372  |  Link
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Not according the Blu-ray Demystified book. It is the layman's book to the Blu-ray specification.
Are you sure about that? According to the spec it must play 720x576i@25. It should also support 720x576p@25 for secondary video (usually PiP usage) -- but I'll have to check and see if that is actually required in order to be certified.

Either way -- let's get back on topic. This is a bug thread. If we want to discuss it more, let's open another thread for it.
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Last edited by jdobbs; 17th December 2016 at 17:31.
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Old 17th December 2016, 19:24   #25373  |  Link
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I think you mean pour.
It should be pore.
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Old 17th December 2016, 21:01   #25374  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdobbs View Post
Are you sure about that?
Code:
Table 6.4 General Characteristics of BDMV Presentation Data
Frame rate: 24/23.976 fps (film) [sic!]
    29.97/59.94 fps (NTSC) [sic!]
    25/50 fps (mandatory in PAL regions only)
I've marked two of the entries as sic because the one marked film is not necessarily true. Scripted drama TV shows are shot at 23.976 here in the U.S. The NTSC as a generic label is wrong because there is no such thing as HD NTSC.
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Old 17th December 2016, 21:17   #25375  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrVideo View Post
Code:
Table 6.4 General Characteristics of BDMV Presentation Data
Frame rate: 24/23.976 fps (film) [sic!]
    29.97/59.94 fps (NTSC) [sic!]
    25/50 fps (mandatory in PAL regions only)
I've marked two of the entries as sic because the one marked film is not necessarily true. Scripted drama TV shows are shot at 23.976 here in the U.S. The NTSC as a generic label is wrong because there is no such thing as HD NTSC.
I just went through the specification and especially references to 720x576 (and notes) and I couldn't find anything that supports the "mandatory in PAL regions only" statement. About the only time regions are mentioned (other than things like text and screen regions) is where they are documented in tables or for playback control. On the other hand the A/V specification volume is well of 1400 pages long -- so saying anything definitively always has to come with the caveat "from what I could find".
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Last edited by jdobbs; 17th December 2016 at 21:20.
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Old 17th December 2016, 21:56   #25376  |  Link
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I'm currently extracting an episode of Primeval from its U.K. DVD release. So, I'll be putting together a single item menu BD disc as a test.
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Old 17th December 2016, 22:52   #25377  |  Link
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@MrVideo

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrVideo View Post
Code:
Table 6.4 General Characteristics of BDMV Presentation Data
Frame rate: 24/23.976 fps (film) [sic!]
    29.97/59.94 fps (NTSC) [sic!]
    25/50 fps (mandatory in PAL regions only)
I've marked two of the entries as sic because the one marked film is not necessarily true. Scripted drama TV shows are shot at 23.976 here in the U.S. The NTSC as a generic label is wrong because there is no such thing as HD NTSC.
You of all people use reference material that refer to NTSC and PAL
OH...the irony!!!

Last edited by gonca; 17th December 2016 at 22:59.
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Old 17th December 2016, 23:56   #25378  |  Link
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@jdobbs
Any thoughts on this?
Is there a good reason why SBS/OU is not available with full backups?
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Old 18th December 2016, 04:14   #25379  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonca View Post
You of all people use reference material that refer to NTSC and PAL
OH...the irony!!!
You need to read the book. NTSC/PAL is used correctly in many places in referring to the terms with television standard. It is unfortunate how the author used the terms in that particular table.
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Old 18th December 2016, 04:42   #25380  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharc View Post
@jdobbs
Any thoughts on this?
Is there a good reason why SBS/OU is not available with full backups?
Have you tried the hidden option TYPE_OF_3D, or am I missing something?
Code:
TYPE_OF_3D=n		n = 0-3 - 0=Side-by-side (SBS, default), 1=Over/Under (O/U), 2=RC Anaglyph, 3=GM Anaglyph
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