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Old 11th December 2018, 16:21   #21  |  Link
Groucho2004
 
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Originally Posted by hello_hello View Post
The "force keyframes every" option could possibly use a rename
Why? It does exactly what it says on the tin - setting a key frame every xxx frames.
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Old 11th December 2018, 17:22   #22  |  Link
GillesH
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FILM9 is already working in 2 steps with a Lagarith intermediate file.
The encoding is, of course, in the 2nd step.
As has been said, everything works fine except with H264/FullHD encoding.
And only with some clips. Probably those who have hectic images that forces the GOP to work more.
Therefore, the impact of the GOP should be reduced to limit the memory bug.
For the problem of versions W10 : leave aside for the moment. Not everything is for the last 1809.
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Old 11th December 2018, 19:03   #23  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Groucho2004 View Post
Why? It does exactly what it says on the tin - setting a key frame every xxx frames.
Forcing a keyframe every xxx number of frames and setting xxx as the maximum distance between keyframes aren't the same thing.

For "force keyframes every" to work exactly as the option name suggests, it'd have to also set --no-scenecut or --scenecut 0, but it doesn't.
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Old 11th December 2018, 19:12   #24  |  Link
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Originally Posted by GillesH View Post
FILM9 is already working in 2 steps with a Lagarith intermediate file.
The encoding is, of course, in the 2nd step.
As has been said, everything works fine except with H264/FullHD encoding.
And only with some clips. Probably those who have hectic images that forces the GOP to work more.
Therefore, the impact of the GOP should be reduced to limit the memory bug.
For the problem of versions W10 : leave aside for the moment. Not everything is for the last 1809.
I didn't realise that. I assumed you were editing/filtering/encoding in a single step.
To me though, that makes the problem more odd, given all you're doing at the x264 stage is re-encoding a lossless file. I run XP, so I only have 4GB RAM, with only 3.5GB being usable (due to the video card RAM) and I don't have a problem encoding 1080p, even with a bit of slow Avisynth filtering included in the process.

If that's what you're doing, do you need to use FILM9 for the x264 encoding? You could open the lossless file with most GUIs to re-encode it.
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Old 11th December 2018, 19:31   #25  |  Link
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Originally Posted by hello_hello View Post
Forcing a keyframe every xxx number of frames and setting xxx as the maximum distance between keyframes aren't the same thing.

For "force keyframes every" to work exactly as the option name suggests, it'd have to also set --no-scenecut or --scenecut 0, but it doesn't.
I don't know how else to get this into your thick skull. Last try:

Clip encoded with VD2/H.264 8 bit using "Force keyframes every 39 frames":
Quote:
Encoding settings : cabac=1 / ref=5 / deblock=1:-1:-1 / analyse=0x3:0x113 / me=hex / subme=8 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.15 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=2 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=-3 / threads=6 / lookahead_threads=1 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=2 / b_adapt=1 / b_bias=0 / direct=3 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=2 / keyint=39 / keyint_min=3 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=39 / rc=crf / mbtree=1 / crf=18.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=0 / qpmax=69 / qpstep=4 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00
Clip encoded with VD2/H.264 8 bit using command line option "--keyint 39":
Quote:
Encoding settings : cabac=1 / ref=5 / deblock=1:-1:-1 / analyse=0x3:0x113 / me=hex / subme=8 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.15 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=2 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=-3 / threads=6 / lookahead_threads=1 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=2 / b_adapt=1 / b_bias=0 / direct=3 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=2 / keyint=39 / keyint_min=3 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=39 / rc=crf / mbtree=1 / crf=18.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=0 / qpmax=69 / qpstep=4 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00
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Old 11th December 2018, 19:34   #26  |  Link
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GillesH,
Is it only VD2 running during the x264 encoding part of the process?

I just opened a video with VD2 via an Avisynth script and resized it to 1920x1080 as a quick test. It encoded with x264 fine (I only encoded 1000 frames). It converted to huffyuv in an AVI container without problems and also to huffyuv in an MKV (using VD2). Both lossless files encoded with x264's default settings without an error (using VD2).

Last edited by hello_hello; 11th December 2018 at 19:54.
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Old 11th December 2018, 19:50   #27  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Groucho2004 View Post
I don't know how else to get this into your thick skull
The irony there is quite funny.

Even if you're not clever enough to understand, I haven't denied the "force keyframes every" option sets --keyint for x264. Although due to the option name I didn't realise that's what it did originally, which is why I said it could possible use a rename, but --keyint doesn't necessarily force keyframes to be an exact distance apart. Without disabling scene detection, --keyint only sets the maximum distance between keyframes.

You might end up with the same result much of the time for low keyint values, as the maximum distance will often be reached before a scene change, but you only have to encode with x264 once or twice to realise --keyint 250 doesn't give you keyframes exactly 250 frames apart.

I just opened a video I encoded yesterday with --keyint 250, picked a random keyframe and then looked at the distance to the next one. They were 135 frames apart. How would the VD2 option have forced them to be 250 frames apart instead?

Last edited by hello_hello; 11th December 2018 at 23:44.
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Old 13th December 2018, 14:16   #28  |  Link
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Originally Posted by hello_hello View Post
I just opened a video I encoded yesterday with --keyint 250, picked a random keyframe and then looked at the distance to the next one. They were 135 frames apart. How would the VD2 option have forced them to be 250 frames apart instead?
Do you expect "force keyframes" option to put keyframes on exactly the specified interval (and allow extra keyframes on scene changes)?
Honestly I did not put much thinking in it. For me linking this option to "--keyint" sounds reasonable. I needed to do something with the option (either disable it or make it do something), and implementing any behavior other than --keyint is just more effort and maybe unnecessary confusion. As I understand, forcing keys at fixed frames is only good for precise cutting afterwards.
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Old 13th December 2018, 14:21   #29  |  Link
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GillesH,

It seems you pass message about crashes from somebody else (rather than yours own).
If the person who encounters crash can isolate reproducible case, he/she should report it directly and prepare files, crash reports, logs.
This way I may find out what the problem really is and whether it is possible to improve something.
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Old 13th December 2018, 17:35   #30  |  Link
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Originally Posted by shekh View Post
Do you expect "force keyframes" option to put keyframes on exactly the specified interval (and allow extra keyframes on scene changes)?
"Force keyframes every xxx frames" seems to imply the keyframes will always be the same distance apart.
It might work that way for other formats, but now I know it sets the maximum keyframe distance without disabling scene change detection for x264, I know what to expect. Only setting --keyint probably makes more sense most of the time.

As I mentioned previously, if the option also set "--scenecut 0" for x264, it'd work as the name seems to imply, but that's probably not too important.

Although for x264 at least, you could possibly have the best of both worlds without too much work. The current option for specifying --keyint and automatically enforcing "--scenecut 0", with an additional option to enable x264's scene detection. Or the other way around. If something like that involves too much work, I'd probably leave it as it is (or maybe have the option's name change when appropriate to indicate it sets --keyint instead).

Edit: Currently the option is greyed out when selecting a codec for which it doesn't apply, so maybe you could duplicate the option and call it --keyint, and grey out the appropriate option(s) as it'd apply to the selected codec.

Just some thoughts....

Last edited by hello_hello; 13th December 2018 at 17:57.
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Old 13th December 2018, 18:46   #31  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hello_hello View Post
The irony there is quite funny.

Even if you're not clever enough to understand, I haven't denied the "force keyframes every" option sets --keyint for x264.
Yes, you have:
Quote:
Originally Posted by hello_hello View Post
I think it'd be better to reduce the maximum gop size instead
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Originally Posted by Groucho2004 View Post
Instead of what?
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Originally Posted by hello_hello View Post
See the post immediately before my previous one (#13).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Groucho2004 View Post
What shekh recommended does exactly the same as "--keyint xxx".
Your statement "I think it'd be better to reduce the maximum gop size instead" clearly says that they're not the same. The fact that you didn't know they were the same does not change that.
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Old 13th December 2018, 20:47   #32  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Groucho2004 View Post
Yes, you have:
You're beginning to look silly by continuing with this, but here's what I said including the part you left out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hello_hello View Post
Even if you're not clever enough to understand, I haven't denied the "force keyframes every" option sets --keyint for x264. Although due to the option name I didn't realise that's what it did originally, which is why I said it could possible use a rename...
And after you pointed out my mistake I said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by hello_hello View Post
I don't use VD2 regularly so not for 1000000000000000000000000 years would I have assumed a setting labelled "force keyframes every" would set the maximum gop size rather than "force keyframes every" according to the specified interval (as though a qp file was being used for x264).
What don't you understand about that? Does it sound like I didn't realise I was mistaken?

Ever since then you've been claiming that setting a --keyint and "forcing keyframes every xxx frames" are the same. The option might set --keyint, but as I've said several times, setting --keyint doesn't force keyframes every xxx frames as the VD2 option suggests, it just sets the maximum distance between them. Have you used x264 before?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Groucho2004 View Post
Why? It does exactly what it says on the tin - setting a key frame every xxx frames.
It doesn't say "set a keyframe every xxx frames". It says "force a keyframe every xxx frames". You can't even quote the tin correctly.

Here's the question you ignored. I can only assume you're so intent on proving me wrong you were blinded to it, but I'll try again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hello_hello View Post
I just opened a video I encoded yesterday with --keyint 250, picked a random keyframe and then looked at the distance to the next one. They were 135 frames apart. How would the VD2 option have forced them to be 250 frames apart instead?

Last edited by hello_hello; 14th December 2018 at 00:39.
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Old 13th December 2018, 22:30   #33  |  Link
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Old 13th December 2018, 23:05   #34  |  Link
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Stop squabbling girls, nuff is e-nuff
Agreed.

@hello*2
Time is too precious to argue with you. Your tendency to mis-quote and deflect is annoying and pathetic.
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Old 14th December 2018, 00:02   #35  |  Link
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@hello*2
Time is too precious to argue with you. Your tendency to mis-quote and deflect is annoying and pathetic.
And yet two days after your last post you returned specifically to spend your time arguing again (and parrot what I said about mis-quoting). Before you leave while pretending not to notice my question for a second time, would you please give me an example of where I mis-quoted you to show you're not blatantly lying.

Last edited by hello_hello; 14th December 2018 at 00:23.
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Old 17th December 2018, 12:26   #36  |  Link
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Code:
It seems you pass message about crashes from somebody else (rather than yours own).
If the person who encounters crash can isolate reproducible case, he/she should report it directly and prepare files, crash reports, logs.
This way I may find out what the problem really is and whether it is possible to improve something.
Hi Shekh,
Yes, about FILM9, we have user feedback on some issues.
But the analysis of these problems is not always easy to identify.
Also, in general, these users do not attend Doom9.

That said, I confirm that the setting of the "keyint" has improved the x264 encoding for formats FullHD (1920x1080) which is very greedy in memory.
The crash has disappeared. This setting in the "Force keyframes every" window is convenient.
This makes it possible to enter the value in the line "VirtualDub.video.SetCompression" without difficulty.

Thanks for your advices.
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Old 17th December 2018, 13:15   #37  |  Link
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would you please give me an example of where I mis-quoted you
I never wrote that you mis-quoted me. Try to read my post again before accusing me of lying.
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Last edited by Groucho2004; 17th December 2018 at 22:04.
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Old 18th December 2018, 17:18   #38  |  Link
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I never wrote that you mis-quoted me. Try to read my post again before accusing me of lying.
Yeah... "tendency to mis-quote" takes the specifics out of it. Plenty of "implication" to hide behind of course (otherwise why say it?) while hoping nobody notices you're just name-calling because you've got nothing else. That's fine though. It's a big forum and there's a search function. Show me twice where I've mis-quoted anyone and I'll admit you're not a liar. Once isn't a tendency. Three barely qualifies, but I'll settle for two to make it easy..... although could you throw in an example of where I've "deflected"? I think you might be confusing your failure to understand with deflection.

Whoops.... it's been so long since you contributed to discussing the actual topic I almost forget to ask again....

Quote:
Originally Posted by hello_hello View Post
I just opened a video I encoded yesterday with --keyint 250, picked a random keyframe and then looked at the distance to the next one. They were 135 frames apart. How would the VD2 option have forced them to be 250 frames apart instead?

Last edited by hello_hello; 18th December 2018 at 17:57.
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Old 18th December 2018, 18:24   #39  |  Link
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Old 19th December 2018, 01:40   #40  |  Link
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StainlessS,
I count six posts over eight days not on the topic of GillesH's problem or VD2's "force keyframes every" option (related). Two posts from Groucho2004, two replies from me, and two from the armchair moderator. You must have a very low threshold for tedium.
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