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21st March 2018, 20:26 | #49681 | Link | |
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HOW TO - Set up madVR for Kodi DSPlayer & External Media Players |
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21st March 2018, 20:30 | #49682 | Link | |
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My fingers are tired of typing about this topic, so I hope we're clear? Someone else can confirm what bit depth the GPU is sending to the display; I don't know for sure.
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HOW TO - Set up madVR for Kodi DSPlayer & External Media Players |
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21st March 2018, 20:40 | #49683 | Link |
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so why should i bother with sending 10 bit if i know for sure my TV is 8 bit FRC (like nearly every Tv out there, except what LG claism for the OLEDs but there is no screen with more banding problems...). why should i send 10 bit if i know for sure it doesn't matter for image quality? so i send 10 bit because the number is higher? is 10 bit even better if it gets dithered again?
seriously why can't people simply use there eyes to judge it. if you want to know what an GPU send it easy with an AMD card it will always send what you select be default it is 10 bit if the device supports it. by nvidia well not that easy. in the past the bitdeep option was ignored(generally not a totally bad idea if you ask me) and was based on what was used for presentation. |
21st March 2018, 20:45 | #49684 | Link | |
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And, 10-bit RGB > 8-bit RGB > 10-bit YCbCr 4:2:2 > 10-bit YCbCr 4:2:0. That is a direct quote from madshi. He didn't clarify the quality difference between each setting.
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HOW TO - Set up madVR for Kodi DSPlayer & External Media Players Last edited by Warner306; 21st March 2018 at 20:47. |
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21st March 2018, 20:45 | #49685 | Link | |
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21st March 2018, 20:47 | #49686 | Link |
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Sorry for bugging you guys. I'm just going to use the new driver and let it do its thing at 8bit. Fwiw, my 'go to' movie for checking this discussion is Allied 2016. Scene 2:15 through 3:00 shows a dessert slow pan with a cloudy sky. That sky shows banding using 12bit settings in NCP. Using the 8bit settings (that it's going to revert to after a reboot anyway), there is no banding. I don't know what higher quality I will miss by using 8bit but I won't miss that banding. Thanks for all the input. If I make further progress somewhere down the line, I'll share.
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HOW TO-Kodi 2D-3D-UHD (4k) HDR Guide Internal & External Players W11 Pro 24H2 GTX960-4GB RGB 4:4:4 @Matched Refresh Rates 8,10,12bit KODI 22 MPC-HC/BE 82" Q90R Denon S720W |
21st March 2018, 20:50 | #49687 | Link | |
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Have you tried programming Stop and Exit to the same key on your remote instead of using the automatically close after playback setting? That is what I used to do and it never failed with either player. I try and stay out of your set up guide. And I don't know anything about ISO's or BDMV's or batch files. Sorry to the other users, but Brazen posts a lot of set up information for new users to madVR that want to use Kodi. Edit: Probably shouldn't have posted that here, but I did.
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HOW TO - Set up madVR for Kodi DSPlayer & External Media Players Last edited by Warner306; 21st March 2018 at 20:58. |
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21st March 2018, 20:59 | #49688 | Link |
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bit deep is about banding and noise and that's.
the higher the bit deep the lower the noise floor. even 6 bit can create a banding free image but most people will see the added noise to hide the banding. and that'S why blindly using 10 bit is not a good idea there is a reason it is not default and no sending 8 bit with 10 bit madVR is not that bad... it's clearly not optimal to say it friendly. |
21st March 2018, 21:02 | #49689 | Link |
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And I shouldn't answer you and this will be the end of it. Yes, my remote is programmed exactly like that. For MPC-HC too yet each behaves differently. To get technical beyond my understanding, it depends if stereoscopic is engaged or not. Don't ask me why but that is exactly what it boils down to. I also map alt + f4 to force them to close if the auto function didn't. I prefer the auto close because the less interaction the better. You are welcome in my guide anytime. I appreciate you. You know that. Half of what I know is because of your guides and because of the diverse crowd here. Good folks all of you. Much nicer guide than mine for sure
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HOW TO-Kodi 2D-3D-UHD (4k) HDR Guide Internal & External Players W11 Pro 24H2 GTX960-4GB RGB 4:4:4 @Matched Refresh Rates 8,10,12bit KODI 22 MPC-HC/BE 82" Q90R Denon S720W Last edited by brazen1; 21st March 2018 at 21:16. |
21st March 2018, 21:09 | #49690 | Link |
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Yes huhn. I've finally grasped what you are trying convey all this time. 8 bit vs 10 bit is just a couple of numbers. Because one is higher does not mean it is better especially when you consider hardware being used. In the end, what our eyes see should be our final deciding factor. You've been correct all along. Thank you for finally beating it into my head.
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HOW TO-Kodi 2D-3D-UHD (4k) HDR Guide Internal & External Players W11 Pro 24H2 GTX960-4GB RGB 4:4:4 @Matched Refresh Rates 8,10,12bit KODI 22 MPC-HC/BE 82" Q90R Denon S720W |
21st March 2018, 21:14 | #49691 | Link |
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Starting with madVR's dithered 10-bit output, what would be the difference between 10 bit with trailing zero and "true" 12 bit? The way you perfectly convert 10 bit to 12 bit is to add two zeros. This is a 2D image, we do not have new samples or anything to interpolate between. The best thing to do is simply add zeros, any further processing would generate some non-zero bits in the least two significant positions, reducing the effective bit depth loss from that processing step, but the source would simply have nothing but zero in those positions.
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madVR options explained |
21st March 2018, 22:16 | #49693 | Link | |
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Now my fingers are tired too, so I'm off
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21st March 2018, 22:32 | #49694 | Link |
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There is nothing to interpolate through, I just don't understand what you imagine it could be doing. Making up non-zero values? There is only one value, nothing to interpolate between.
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madVR options explained |
21st March 2018, 22:49 | #49696 | Link | |
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I am aware there is a clear objective difference between 444 rgb and 420 ybcr but I personally choose to run everything in 10 bit 4:2:0, I get hammered for this everywhere but I genuinely see no difference at all between 8 bit 444 full RGB dithered and 10 bit 420, or maybe I should say I see no difference in real world viewing. I do however see a difference between madvr and standard EVR renderer. set this way you dont have to worry about bit depth switching, bandwidth or anything, everything just works as it should. I did try using 4:2:2 but I get small picture dropouts, a couple every evening, I see my receivers DIGI icon disappear when it happens so its losing connection, something in my setup cant handle that extra bandwidth, i've given up trying to find out what after 3 sets of HDMI cables. I'm sure its bandwidth as it doesnt do it at 422 4k 24hz, only 422 4k 60hz. |
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21st March 2018, 22:56 | #49697 | Link | |
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If you are 100% sure that the driver pads with zeros because you've looked at the stream coming out of the nVidia GPU set to 12bits when MadVR sends 10bits dithered, by all means say so, otherwise please allow me to not state something that I am not sure of. The only thing I can guarantee is that the driver does output 12bits when set to 12bits, because I can see that with the Vertex. What's in the last two bits, I can't say for sure, even if chances are that it's padded zeros (fingers crossed).
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21st March 2018, 23:13 | #49699 | Link |
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I simply don't understand what you imagine it might be doing? Making up non-zero values? There is only one data point, you cannot interpolate with one point. I suppose the driver could add noise?
Edit: Ah, true huhn. So maybe they strech the range 000000000000-111111111100 to 000000000000-111111111111, with dithering, which would be odd but possible.
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madVR options explained Last edited by Asmodian; 21st March 2018 at 23:22. |
21st March 2018, 23:23 | #49700 | Link |
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There is actually a bit of a trick when extending the bitdepth of a full range signal, you fill the new bits with the leading bits of the pixel, ie. like this for 8 to 10-bit:
- You shift to 10-bit first, which adds two empty bits. - Then you fill those empty bits with the top bits from the original signal Code:
1111111100 + 11111111 = 1111111111 - All 1 also remains all 1, ie. maximum 8-bit (255) remains maximum 10-bit (1023) - Zero also remains zero - Its easy and fast I can't say that this is what its doing, but it is generally regarded as producing a more faithful signal when increasing bitdepth then plain zero padding, and a full stretch from 0-255 to 0-1023 is computationally rather expensive. Note that this does not apply when you are dealing with limited range (ie. 16-235), because 16 and 235 map to the limited-range 10-bit values exactly when you simply shift them up (ie. 64 to 940) But when handling full-range signals like RGB, plain zero padding is not entirely accurate.
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LAV Filters - open source ffmpeg based media splitter and decoders Last edited by nevcairiel; 21st March 2018 at 23:32. |
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direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling |
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