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Old 14th July 2020, 17:45   #29621  |  Link
Sharc
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NVEncC v5.10 is out. Supporting multipass ... (didn't try yet)
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Old 14th July 2020, 21:31   #29622  |  Link
jdobbs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharc View Post
NVEncC v5.10 is out. Supporting multipass ... (didn't try yet)
What???

And I was close to posting a test version of BD-RB...

I think I'll test multipass first...
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Old 14th July 2020, 22:05   #29623  |  Link
jdobbs
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I set it to --multipass 2pass-full and it shows it as set while it is running... but the speed seems identical and it appears to only do one pass. I think this may be a mode I read about previously (somewhere), where it does two passes on a limited subset of frames (the lookahead, maybe?). It wouldn't be considered as really two pass.

True two-pass encoding requires a look at the entire stream so bits can be allocated with the entire set of frames under consideration.

With that said, I'll do some testing and see if --multipass results in any noticable improvements.

[Edit] Curiouser and curiouser... you can even set --multipass 2pass-full when using CQM mode. How does that work?
And it appears that two-pass is ON no matter what settings you use. The encode shows 2pass-full mode even when I set --multipass none or --multipass 2pass-quater [SIC] It even says it is on if you leave the --multipass option off completely.

v5.10 is running a little slower than v5.09 and the output size with the same setting is a little larger with v5.10 (with the same CQM value)... so something has changed. I'm just not sure what. Maybe it's because 2 pass is stuck on no matter the setting? No idea.

So....

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Last edited by jdobbs; 14th July 2020 at 22:44.
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Old 14th July 2020, 22:43   #29624  |  Link
Sharc
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it requires nvidia driver 445.87 or later (SDK API 10.0).
Can't test it as I am away from home ....

Edit:
Perhaps this explains it
https://github.com/rigaya/NVEnc/issues/248

Edit2:
NVIDIA's multipass description / definition:
https://docs.nvidia.com/video-techno...ame-phencoding

Last edited by Sharc; 14th July 2020 at 23:25.
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Old 14th July 2020, 23:22   #29625  |  Link
jdobbs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharc View Post
it requires nvidia driver 445.87 or later (SDK API 10.0).
Can't test it as I am away from home ....

Edit:
Perhaps this explains it
https://github.com/rigaya/NVEnc/issues/248
I'm currently using nvidia driver 451.48... so that's not it.
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Old 14th July 2020, 23:29   #29626  |  Link
Sharc
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NVIDIA's multipass explanation from their doc:
https://docs.nvidia.com/video-techno...ame-phencoding

Quote:
Multi pass frame encoding
When determining the QP to use for encoding a frame, it is beneficial if NVENC knows the overall complexity of the frame to distribute the available bit budget in the most optimal manner. In some situations, multi-pass encoding may also help catch larger motion between frames. For this purpose, NVENC supports the following types of multi-pass frame encoding modes:

1-pass per frame encoding (NV_ENC_MULTI_PASS_DISABLED)
2-passes per frame, with first pass in quarter resolution and second pass in full resolution (NV_ENC_TWO_PASS_QUARTER_RESOLUTION)
2-passes per frame, with both passes in full resolution (NV_ENC_TWO_PASS_FULL_RESOLUION).
In 1-pass rate control modes, NVENC estimates the required QP for the macroblock and immediately encodes the macroblock. In 2-pass rate control modes, NVENC estimates the complexity of the frame to be encoded and determines bit distribution across the frame in the first pass. In the second pass, NVENC encodes macroblocks in the frame using the distribution determined in the first pass. As a result, with 2-pass rate control modes, NVENC can distribute the bits more optimally within the frame and can reach closer to the target bitrate, especially for CBR encoding. Note, however, that everything else being the same, performance of 2-pass rate control mode is lower than that of 1-pass rate control mode. The client application should choose an appropriate multi-pass rate control mode after evaluating various modes, as each of the modes has its own advantages and disadvantages. NV_ENC_TWO_PASS_FULL_RESOLUION generates better statistics for the second pass, whereas NV_ENC_TWO_PASS_QUARTER_RESOLUTION results in larger motion vectors being caught and fed as hints to second pass.

Last edited by Sharc; 14th July 2020 at 23:33.
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Old 14th July 2020, 23:37   #29627  |  Link
jdobbs
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Thanks for that. That make sense. So it isn't really 2 pass encoding in the traditional sense at all -- it's just 2 passes on a single frame during that frame's encoding.

It looks to me like the new version of NVENCC keeps it in 2-pass-full no matter what setting you specify. I'm sure that's a bug... but probably not a bad one, since 2pass-full is likely the best option in most cases anyhow.

[Edit] I submitted a bug report on GITHUB related to the mode always staying 2pass-full. (or, at least, always reporting 2pass-full)

Interestingly, the encode seems to actually be faster on a UHD source on v5.10 vs. v5.09 -- even with 2pass-full always selected. I'm not sure that that might mean.
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Old 14th July 2020, 23:45   #29628  |  Link
jdobbs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cartman0208 View Post
thanks for the description.

From my limited knowlege ... HDR10+, almost like DolbyVision, adds dynamic metadata to adjust brightness scene-by-scene, while HDR10 only uses static metadata
Just an interesting aside on this subject. NVENCC has an option built in in which the additional information associated with HDR10+ can be copied from the original file automatically during encoding.
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Old 15th July 2020, 13:56   #29629  |  Link
cartman0208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdobbs View Post
Just an interesting aside on this subject. NVENCC has an option built in in which the additional information associated with HDR10+ can be copied from the original file automatically during encoding.
Yep, found that, too
Actually a lot of parameters can just be copied ... like colormatrix, master-display and so on, even the audio...
https://github.com/rigaya/NVEnc/blob..._Options.en.md

Doesn't that make your job a lot easier?
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Old 15th July 2020, 13:59   #29630  |  Link
jdobbs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cartman0208 View Post
Yep, found that, too
Actually a lot of parameters can just be copied ... like colormatrix, master-display and so on, even the audio...
https://github.com/rigaya/NVEnc/blob..._Options.en.md

Doesn't that make your job a lot easier?
Yes, for NVEncC -- but I'll also have to make it work for X265 encoding. That means I'll probably have to create a JSON file from the extracted HEVC file, so it can be referenced from the command line -- which will add about 6-10 minutes to each job.

As for the other settings that can be copied... they are readily available in a BD structure and BD-RB already has the code to extract it and use it. My attention-to-detail tendencies also make me want to have control over things like that rather than "trust" other software.

Just a note on that. In my testing, I'm finding (as you might expect) that X265 is significantly more efficient than the NVIDIA hardware encoder. For example, if you encode some sources with a CQM of 25 using the hardware encoder you will get a file that is twice as large as one created by X265 with a CRF of 25. Of course you also have to factor in that the hardware encode is about 20-40x faster...
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Old 15th July 2020, 15:24   #29631  |  Link
Sharc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdobbs View Post
Just a note on that. In my testing, I'm finding (as you might expect) that X265 is significantly more efficient than the NVIDIA hardware encoder. For example, if you encode some sources with a CQM of 25 using the hardware encoder you will get a file that is twice as large as one created by X265 with a CRF of 25. Of course you also have to factor in that the hardware encode is about 20-40x faster...
Would you say that the quality (in terms of metrics or by visual comparison) is about the same for the CQM=25 (HW, h.265) and and CRF=25 (SW, x265) encodes?
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Old 15th July 2020, 18:11   #29632  |  Link
jdobbs
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Originally Posted by Sharc View Post
Would you say that the quality (in terms of metrics or by visual comparison) is about the same for the CQM=25 (HW, h.265) and and CRF=25 (SW, x265) encodes?
I'm not sure. I don't like doing subjective comparisons, so I'll have to use AVISYNTH and do some SSIM testing.

More on the "--multipass" thing: It turns out that setting --vbrhq mode automatically sets the encoder to do 2 pass-full. So I'm not sure that there is actually any additional capability associated with that parameter other than it may provide a bit of granularity (with the ability to set 2pass-quarter).
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Old 15th July 2020, 22:57   #29633  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdobbs View Post
I'm not sure. I don't like doing subjective comparisons, so I'll have to use AVISYNTH and do some SSIM testing.

More on the "--multipass" thing: It turns out that setting --vbrhq mode automatically sets the encoder to do 2 pass-full. So I'm not sure that there is actually any additional capability associated with that parameter other than it may provide a bit of granularity (with the ability to set 2pass-quarter).
well yess compressing around 80 gig to 25 will have its tradeoff in quality, i think for h264 max quality, is like x264 medium not sure with 265
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Old 16th July 2020, 12:20   #29634  |  Link
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hmm i wonder if the AMD Ryzen Threadripper 3970X Processor (32 Core / 64 Threads , 128 MB Cache, 4.5 GHz Boost) would bring x265 times down ? its only 1.8k for the chip :P

Last edited by Mike-uk; 16th July 2020 at 12:26.
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Old 16th July 2020, 15:53   #29635  |  Link
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The discussion of quality settings makes me smile. My first BD backup/conversion, in Oct 2008 before BD-RB was born iirc, was Live Free or Die Hard which as you all know is action-packed. Yet when compressed to less than 4GB DVD-size it looked flippin' awesome the couple times I played it. I will have to break it out sometime and see how it holds-up 12 years later!

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Old 17th July 2020, 14:42   #29636  |  Link
jdobbs
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Test Release of BD-RB -- with NVENC support

I've created a test release (v0.61.06) of BD Rebuilder for anyone who would like to experiment and report any issues they see with the new support for NVIDIA/NVENC support.

Please note that in order to use the new capability you must run BD-RB on a system that has an NVIDIA card installed that supports NVENC. You can find out more about which cards can be used at this link. BD-RB does a check when you attempt to select the NVENC encoder (under the SETTINGS menu).

There were a considerable number of changes to this release, so this version should be considered "for testing purposes only", so I'm not updating the first post of this thread -- please try it and let me know your experiences and report any bugs you find.

BD-RB v0.61.06

Thanks.
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Last edited by jdobbs; 17th July 2020 at 16:45.
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Old 17th July 2020, 17:30   #29637  |  Link
Mark_Venture
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdobbs View Post
I've created a test release (v0.61.06) of BD Rebuilder for anyone who would like to experiment and report any issues they see with the new support for NVIDIA/NVENC support.

Please note that in order to use the new capability you must run BD-RB on a system that has an NVIDIA card installed that supports NVENC. You can find out more about which cards can be used at this link. BD-RB does a check when you attempt to select the NVENC encoder (under the SETTINGS menu).

There were a considerable number of changes to this release, so this version should be considered "for testing purposes only", so I'm not updating the first post of this thread -- please try it and let me know your experiences and report any bugs you find.

BD-RB v0.61.06

Thanks.
Can I just say, I hate Norton... gives issues on the NVEncC.exe included with BD-RB (says RISK:WS.Reputation.1). didn't have issues with one I downloaded separately.

(had to restore and exclude this)

Last edited by Mark_Venture; 17th July 2020 at 17:33.
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Old 17th July 2020, 19:02   #29638  |  Link
cartman0208
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First encode looks pretty awesome, but I wanted to compare more closely, so I tried AviSynth interleave (first time for me) on the m2ts files

Immediately I noticed random artifacts on the reencoded file.

Code:
a=DirectShowSource("U:\FullDisc\OLYMPUS_HAS_FALLEN\BDMV\STREAM\00021.m2ts").Subtitle("O", align=2, size=30, text_color=$ffffff)
b=DirectShowSource("U:\BD-Output\OLYMPUS_HAS_FALLEN\BDMV\STREAM\00021.m2ts").Subtitle("NV", align=2, size=30, text_color=$ffffff)
return interleave(a, b)
Playing the resulting file alone is without artifacts...
Any Hints from the AviSynth pro's?
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Old 17th July 2020, 19:27   #29639  |  Link
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First encode of ALT-Movie Only (MKV Container, HEVC, NO_Resize, Intact Audio) of Avengers Endgame was quick. ABout 1hr 21 min.
Code:
[07/17/20] BD Rebuilder v0.61.06
[12:35:56] Source:  AVENGERS_ENDGAME-4K_00004
  - Input BD size: 59.49 GB
  - Approximate total content: [03:01:11.527]
  - Windows Version: 6.2 [9200]
  - MOVIE-ONLY/ALTERNATE OUTPUT mode enabled
  - Mode: MKV Container, HEVC, NO_RESIZE, Intact Audio
  - Quality: High Quality (Default)
  - Decoding/Frame serving: NVENCC
  - Audio Settings: AC3=0 DTS=0 HD=1 Kbs=640
[12:35:59] PHASE ONE, Encoding
 - [12:35:59] Processing: VID_00055 (1 of 1)
 - [12:35:59] Extracting A/V streams [VID_00055]
 - [12:56:49] Reencoding video [VID_00055]
   - Source Video: HEVC, 3840x2160
   - Rate/Length: 23.976fps, 260,656 frames
 - [12:56:49] Reencoding: VID_00055, Pass 1 of 1
 - [13:45:26] Video Encode complete
 - [13:45:26] Processing audio tracks
   - Track 4352 (eng): Keeping original audio
   - Track 4353 (eng): Keeping original audio
[13:45:26]PHASE ONE complete
[13:45:26]PHASE TWO - Rebuild Started
 - [13:45:26] Building ALTERNATE OUTPUT Structure
[13:56:22] - Encode and Rebuild complete
[13:56:22] JOB: AVENGERS_ENDGAME-4K finished.

using the following ini...
Code:
[Options]
VERSION=0.61.0.6
ENCODER=1
MODE=3
ENCODE_QUALITY=2
ONEPASS_ENCODING=0
AUTO_QUALITY=0
AUDIO_TO_KEEP=eng;
SUBS_TO_KEEP=eng;
SD_CONVERT=0
OPEN_GOP=0
RESIZE_1080=0
RESIZE_1440=0
RESIZE_720=0
DEINTERLACE=1
SD_TO_1080=0
IGNORE_3D=0
CONVERT_WIDE=0
DTS_REENCODE=0
AC3_REENCODE=0
AC3_640=1
AC3_192=0
KEEP_HD_AUDIO=1
DECODER=3
AVCHD=1
REMOVE_WORKFILES=0
REMOVE_OUTPUT=0
USE_FILTERS=0
BDMV_CERT_ONLY=0
IVTC_PULLDOWN=0
ASSUME_DVD_PAL=0
FRIMSOURCE=0
COMPLETION_BEEP=0
OUTPUT_SBS=1
NEROAAC=0
SUPTITLE=0
AUDIO_TRACK_LIMIT=0
SUBTITLE_TRACK_LIMIT=0
CUSTOM_TARGET_SIZE=23500
PRIORITY_CLASS=0
TARGET_SIZE=23500
MOVIEONLY_TYPE=40
ALTCRF=19
ALT_TARGET=8096
ALTMETHOD=0
ALTAUTOCROP=0
QUICK_EXTRAS=1
AUDIO_DRC=0
PGSTOSRT=0
ALT_CRF_TARGET=1024
FRIM_SW_DECODE=0
FRIM_SW_ENCODE=0
NVENC_CAPABLE=1

[Paths]
SupTitlePath=C:\Program Files (x86)\AviSynth\plugins\SupTitle.dll
SOURCE_PATH=H:\BLURAY\AVENGERS_ENDGAME-4K\
WORKING_PATH=F:\BLURAY-WORKING\
DGIndexNV=D:\BD_Rebuilder\dgdecnv\DGIndexNV.exe
DGDecNV=D:\BD_Rebuilder\dgdecnv\DGDecodeNV.dll
Code:
General
Unique ID                                : 220642287505551334163210721554557699978 (0xA5FE28AA6D37327D898374BC265A078A)
Complete name                            : F:\BluRay-Working\AVENGERS_ENDGAME-4K.mkv
Format                                   : Matroska
Format version                           : Version 2
File size                                : 27.7 GiB
Duration                                 : 3 h 1 min
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 21.9 Mb/s
Encoded date                             : UTC 2020-07-17 17:45:32
Writing application                      : mkvmerge v9.7.1 ('Pandemonium') 32bit
Writing library                          : libebml v1.3.4 + libmatroska v1.4.5

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : HEVC
Format/Info                              : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile                           : Main 10@L5@High
HDR format                               : SMPTE ST 2086, HDR10 compatible
Codec ID                                 : V_MPEGH/ISO/HEVC
Duration                                 : 3 h 1 min
Bit rate                                 : 16.1 Mb/s
Width                                    : 3 840 pixels
Height                                   : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 23.976 (23976/1000) FPS
Original frame rate                      : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0 (Type 2)
Bit depth                                : 10 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.081
Stream size                              : 20.3 GiB (73%)
Default                                  : Yes
Forced                                   : No
Color range                              : Limited
Color primaries                          : BT.2020
Transfer characteristics                 : PQ
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.2020 non-constant
Mastering display color primaries        : Display P3
Mastering display luminance              : min: 0.0050 cd/m2, max: 4000 cd/m2

Audio #1
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : MLP FBA 16-ch
Format/Info                              : Meridian Lossless Packing FBA with 16-channel presentation
Commercial name                          : Dolby TrueHD with Dolby Atmos
Codec ID                                 : A_TRUEHD
Duration                                 : 3 h 1 min
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 4 777 kb/s
Maximum bit rate                         : 8 430 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 8 channels
Channel layout                           : L R C LFE Ls Rs Lb Rb
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 1 200.000 FPS (40 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossless
Delay relative to video                  : 1 ms
Stream size                              : 6.05 GiB (22%)
Language                                 : English
Default                                  : Yes
Forced                                   : No
Number of dynamic objects                : 13
Bed channel count                        : 1 channel
Bed channel configuration                : LFE

Audio #2
ID                                       : 3
Format                                   : AC-3
Format/Info                              : Audio Coding 3
Commercial name                          : Dolby Digital
Codec ID                                 : A_AC3
Duration                                 : 3 h 1 min
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 640 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 6 channels
Channel layout                           : L R C LFE Ls Rs
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 31.250 FPS (1536 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 829 MiB (3%)
Service kind                             : Complete Main
Default                                  : No
Forced                                   : No

Audio #3
ID                                       : 4
Format                                   : AC-3
Format/Info                              : Audio Coding 3
Commercial name                          : Dolby Digital
Codec ID                                 : A_AC3
Duration                                 : 3 h 1 min
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 320 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 31.250 FPS (1536 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 415 MiB (1%)
Language                                 : English
Service kind                             : Complete Main
Default                                  : No
Forced                                   : No

Text
ID                                       : 5
Format                                   : PGS
Muxing mode                              : zlib
Codec ID                                 : S_HDMV/PGS
Codec ID/Info                            : Picture based subtitle format used on BDs/HD-DVDs
Duration                                 : 3 h 0 min
Bit rate                                 : 11.5 kb/s
Count of elements                        : 5266
Stream size                              : 14.9 MiB (0%)
Language                                 : English
Default                                  : No
Forced                                   : No

Menu
00:00:00.000                             : en:00:00:00.000
00:08:06.068                             : en:00:08:06.068
00:20:01.867                             : en:00:20:01.867
00:26:15.448                             : en:00:26:15.448
00:36:57.340                             : en:00:36:57.340
00:43:20.764                             : en:00:43:20.764
00:48:44.338                             : en:00:48:44.338
00:57:36.911                             : en:00:57:36.911
01:07:12.778                             : en:01:07:12.778
01:16:02.683                             : en:01:16:02.683
01:26:25.597                             : en:01:26:25.597
01:32:20.284                             : en:01:32:20.284
01:38:55.971                             : en:01:38:55.971
01:48:12.527                             : en:01:48:12.527
01:57:27.081                             : en:01:57:27.081
02:05:00.409                             : en:02:05:00.409
02:15:06.598                             : en:02:15:06.598
02:25:50.616                             : en:02:25:50.616
02:34:38.102                             : en:02:34:38.102
02:43:04.065                             : en:02:43:04.065
02:49:05.510                             : en:02:49:05.510
03:01:11.277                             : en:03:01:11.277
Original M2TS on disc 59.4 GB, resulting file from BD-RB is 27.6GB, so a nice reduction in size.

Playback on my 1080p monitor looked good. Will check on my 4K TV as soon as I get a chance to step away from my desk.

I also just started a Full Backup to BD-25.. Will post results in a little bit.


NOTE: my graphics card is an EVGA GTX 1660ti XC Ultra Gaming 06G-P4-1267-KR (full PC spec's HERE )

Last edited by Mark_Venture; 17th July 2020 at 19:30.
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Old 17th July 2020, 20:02   #29640  |  Link
Sharc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cartman0208 View Post
First encode looks pretty awesome, but I wanted to compare more closely, so I tried AviSynth interleave (first time for me) on the m2ts files

Immediately I noticed random artifacts on the reencoded file.

Code:
a=DirectShowSource("U:\FullDisc\OLYMPUS_HAS_FALLEN\BDMV\STREAM\00021.m2ts").Subtitle("O", align=2, size=30, text_color=$ffffff)
b=DirectShowSource("U:\BD-Output\OLYMPUS_HAS_FALLEN\BDMV\STREAM\00021.m2ts").Subtitle("NV", align=2, size=30, text_color=$ffffff)
return interleave(a, b)
Playing the resulting file alone is without artifacts...
Any Hints from the AviSynth pro's?
Don't use DirectShowSource. Make .dgi index files of the 2 files (original and encoded) instead.
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