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Old 26th September 2018, 11:24   #52741  |  Link
mclingo
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Originally Posted by famasfilms View Post
Eh? Nothing needs fixing with my setup, SDR and HDR work fine, the only requirement is that I change from PC mode to Home Theatre on the TV to watch HDR.
....C
The only difference the mode makes on mine is that PC mode disables all motion processing, beyond the fact it used to fixed my colour saturation problem with SDR 23hz material there were no other differences.

There is no diff between home threatre and bluray on mine at all for colour or HDR.

Now my colour sat problem is fixed switching modes does nothing at all to colour on mine, but mine is a frst gen OLED and may be different to later models.

I'm using Deep colour on all three HDMI's.
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Old 26th September 2018, 11:27   #52742  |  Link
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Originally Posted by jokerb47 View Post
Hello madshi. Thanks for the quick reply. Glad to know you aware of this problem. I just want to add, that I doubt that my particular system is at fault. I've had this bug with AMD drivers 17.11.1 and now 18.8.1. Have all latest updates. I tried default madvr settings, as well as my custom settings. What I did yesterday is setting "when and how shall the GPU be flushed" all 4 settings to flush&wait(sleep). And I thought that helped, because the whole 2 times after about 10 minites of monitor sleep(but also cpu powerstates go down by ParkControl), the bug dissappeared.

But then I decided to leave the machine running for the night, with monitors in sleep, and bam in the morning that video won't play. So at this point I don't believe just changing madVR settings will help. I'll temporary revert this JRiver profile to EVR, but after madVR the picture is not sharp at all)
I think you are asking a bit too much of you system to resume playback after the PC has been to sleep, too many variables there, why would you leave the movie playing anyway, just set you player to remember its position in the movie and close it before you machine goes to sleep.
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Old 26th September 2018, 11:28   #52743  |  Link
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Madshi, any chance you could send a dummy load to the GPU when resuming playback so the clock ramps up before the playback starts? Should hopefully fix that second or so of stuttering.
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Old 26th September 2018, 12:07   #52744  |  Link
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Originally Posted by mclingo View Post
I think you are asking a bit too much of you system to resume playback after the PC has been to sleep, too many variables there, why would you leave the movie playing anyway, just set you player to remember its position in the movie and close it before you machine goes to sleep.
Only the monitor goes to sleep(I guess first the gpu and then the monitor). ParkControl just parks the cores and changes power plan to PowerSaver(the CPU doesn't go to sleep). And the movie is just paused. Yes, JRiver does save the playback time, so I can stop the file and reopen it, but for some reason for short videos(like 10min or less), JRiver doesn't save playback time.

Actually, forget ParkControl, I tried disabling it(so cpu is always in HighPerformance), I still caught this bug.

Last edited by jokerb47; 26th September 2018 at 12:16.
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Old 26th September 2018, 14:52   #52745  |  Link
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Originally Posted by j82k View Post
The thing with Oleds is, they are terrible at near-blacks.
Hi, this isnt strictly true. I have a first gen LG oled and I can tell you that if you put a good signal into it you'll get a good one out.

Being bad a near blacks seemed to be the mantra I LCD owners and reviewers pedalled a lot to the point where i believed it myself and spent what seemed to be hours trying to find out if I had a good or bad example of my TV as something else that was suggested was that some were better than others.
The issue with OLED is not that they are poor at near blacks, its that near blacks tend to house macroblocking and compression artefacts which aren’t masked like on an LCD.
This isn’t because LCD’s are good at near blacks per sey, its because it cant show pure black so where you would see a blocky black mess in a shadow on an OLED you would just see a smooth dark grey none black area on LCD. If you turn up the brightness on an OLED and lose pure black the blocks disappear. I have both an OLED and a fairly decent LCD so I know this to be the case.

This is most apparent on highly compressed streamed material, some of it is completely unwatchable but this is not the fault of OLED, it’s the source.
Later gen units have deployed some processing to deal with this but these source problems but I’ve heard that some stuff still looks pretty bad.
This is why I use MADVR, this really helps with compression artefacts and macroblocking to the point where some material is watchable again.
I good example of this is Snowpiercer, this was completely unwatchable some early OLEDs, you could crush some problems away but that would just make something else pop. With MADVR you can pretty much deal with all the problems by deploying reduce banding artefacts on high.
One thing new OLEDs are better at is quantisation errors at near black. Brightness on early units was quite notchy in that there would be a large jump between brightness 49-50 but then nothing again until 53. This could cause quantisation problems where you could get raised blacks but again only on poorly compressed material.
The latest SOLO movie is full of near blacks and greys, I have ZERO issues on my OLED.
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Old 26th September 2018, 14:53   #52746  |  Link
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Originally Posted by jokerb47 View Post
Only the monitor goes to sleep(I guess first the gpu and then the monitor). ParkControl just parks the cores and changes power plan to PowerSaver(the CPU doesn't go to sleep). And the movie is just paused. Yes, JRiver does save the playback time, so I can stop the file and reopen it, but for some reason for short videos(like 10min or less), JRiver doesn't save playback time.

Actually, forget ParkControl, I tried disabling it(so cpu is always in HighPerformance), I still caught this bug.
just not sure its a bug, there are all sorts of issues with HDMI CEC and other stuff which could cause, you are making you life more difficult by pausing the movie, just stop it and start it mate.
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Old 26th September 2018, 15:02   #52747  |  Link
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Originally Posted by mclingo View Post
Hi, this isnt strictly true. I have a first gen LG oled and I can tell you that if you put a good signal into it you'll get a good one out.

Being bad a near blacks seemed to be the mantra I LCD owners and reviewers pedalled a lot to the point where i believed it myself and spent what seemed to be hours trying to find out if I had a good or bad example of my TV as something else that was suggested was that some were better than others.
The issue with OLED is not that they are poor at near blacks, its that near blacks tend to house macroblocking and compression artefacts which aren’t masked like on an LCD.
This isn’t because LCD’s are good at near blacks per sey, its because it cant show pure black so where you would see a blocky black mess in a shadow on an OLED you would just see a smooth dark grey none black area on LCD. If you turn up the brightness on an OLED and lose pure black the blocks disappear. I have both an OLED and a fairly decent LCD so I know this to be the case.

This is most apparent on highly compressed streamed material, some of it is completely unwatchable but this is not the fault of OLED, it’s the source.
Later gen units have deployed some processing to deal with this but these source problems but I’ve heard that some stuff still looks pretty bad.
This is why I use MADVR, this really helps with compression artefacts and macroblocking to the point where some material is watchable again.
I good example of this is Snowpiercer, this was completely unwatchable some early OLEDs, you could crush some problems away but that would just make something else pop. With MADVR you can pretty much deal with all the problems by deploying reduce banding artefacts on high.
One thing new OLEDs are better at is quantisation errors at near black. Brightness on early units was quite notchy in that there would be a large jump between brightness 49-50 but then nothing again until 53. This could cause quantisation problems where you could get raised blacks but again only on poorly compressed material.
The latest SOLO movie is full of near blacks and greys, I have ZERO issues on my OLED.
This is quite true. I come from a Panny plasma screen and I can honestly say the OLED is quite a leap forward. But you're 100% correct that it will emphasize poor source quality. Last night watching Mayans on my cable system where they compress everything to 720p59 at around 3mbps the night scenes were attrocious on my OLED. But that's not the OLED's fault! The source was highly compressed and the OLED didn't mask it. Nor do I think it should IMO. Black levels on this thing has been extremely impressive. Like you, I found Solo to be excellent on the OLED.
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Old 26th September 2018, 15:19   #52748  |  Link
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passive MVC 3D OLED is just sick as well, is by far the best viewing experience you'll ever have on a 65+ inch TV, obviously IMHO, its wipes the floor with HDR for immersion and wow factor.

This is why i havent upgraded mine and another reason why I use MADVR + LAV
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Old 26th September 2018, 17:16   #52749  |  Link
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Just to see if I understood things discussed in the last few pages correctly... (I currently still use a Kuro plasma, so I can't test HDR).

madVR offers the option to tone map HDR. This is of great use for people with projectors, as those are quite limited in the amount of nits they can produce.
OLEDs could benefit as well, as they are less capable than LCDs in this regard (nits produced), but, at least for LGs, there's no way to deactivate internal HDR tonemapping without going SDR (thus limiting panel light output below HDR requirements).

Correct so far?

madshi states that TVs are not "smart" enough to deactivate their internal tonemapping routines. What I don't understand is: if madVR already outputs a tone mapped picture and the user has inputted correct peak brightness values for their TV... what would the TV tone map for? Am I correct in assuming that the problem stems from OLED not having a peak brightness "per se" but a peak brighness depending on highlights size? In madVR HDR configuration tab there's just a single "target peak nits" value to input.

If one checks measurements such as these: https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/c8#comparison_1675, it's pretty clear that the peak brighness varies immensely according to the zone to be displayed at high nits, due to ABL. As such, and given the current single value input available, I doubt that madVR can provide a better tone mapping results than the internal system in an OLED screen. Am I wrong/missing something? Is there a chance we could have a more flexible configuration for the target peak nits, in order to better serve OLED screens?

Thanks for reading and for answers. And thanks forever to madshi for all he does for us HTPC lovers.
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Old 26th September 2018, 17:24   #52750  |  Link
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Originally Posted by mclingo View Post
passive MVC 3D OLED is just sick as well, is by far the best viewing experience you'll ever have on a 65+ inch TV, obviously IMHO, its wipes the floor with HDR for immersion and wow factor.

This is why i havent upgraded mine and another reason why I use MADVR + LAV
Yea, I wish I had jumped on OLED sooner than I did. No more 3D capable displays kicking around (or very expensive older ones if you can find them). I moved my Panny plasma to another room to keep 3D alive but there's no madvr capability in that room. There's always a trade-off. LOL
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Old 26th September 2018, 22:00   #52751  |  Link
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Hi,

I have problem rendering HDR content with my configuration:
  • MPC-HC 1.7.13
  • LAV 0.72
  • madVR 0.92.16
  • GTX 970
  • TV LG B6
The images look darker than they should be, also in the screen snapshots. Playing the same files from the TV player they are much better.
I am not sure if the problem is related to the control of HDR from MadVR (and Windows 10), or the image decoding. Any help will be appreciated.
I am adding a snapshot with the MadVR details during the playback. Changing the display mode does not affect the result.

https://ibb.co/iq4O6p
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Old 26th September 2018, 22:35   #52752  |  Link
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^ make sure the black level on your tv is set to High during HDR playback. Does SDR playback as it should?
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Old 27th September 2018, 00:31   #52753  |  Link
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Originally Posted by gxcare View Post
Hi,

I have problem rendering HDR content with my configuration:
  • MPC-HC 1.7.13
  • LAV 0.72
  • madVR 0.92.16
  • GTX 970
  • TV LG B6
The images look darker than they should be, also in the screen snapshots. Playing the same files from the TV player they are much better.
I am not sure if the problem is related to the control of HDR from MadVR (and Windows 10), or the image decoding. Any help will be appreciated.
I am adding a snapshot with the MadVR details during the playback. Changing the display mode does not affect the result.

https://ibb.co/iq4O6p
Have you tried using Windows' HDR (enabling HDR in Windows' settings) instead of using Nvidia? I'm also having problems with Nvidia but it looks fine fine with Windows. You might want to try it to discard other things.
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Old 27th September 2018, 02:04   #52754  |  Link
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madshi, thanks for 0.92.16 - the HDR -> SDR conversion is excellent - I tested the UHD-BD of Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire, the wizard duel at the end. The highlights are no longer clipped!
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Old 27th September 2018, 02:40   #52755  |  Link
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That username.. Surely the mods wouldn't.. 2005 Join date.. Oh.

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Originally Posted by mclingo View Post
I think you are asking a bit too much of you system to resume playback after the PC has been to sleep
MadVR I would think just needs to re-initialize, pretty sure madshi could work something out before 1.0.

Last edited by ryrynz; 27th September 2018 at 02:43.
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Old 27th September 2018, 10:28   #52756  |  Link
mclingo
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That username.. Surely the mods wouldn't.. 2005 Join date.. Oh.



MadVR I would think just needs to re-initialize, pretty sure madshi could work something out before 1.0.
yeah that might work if he's playing movies at desktop res, otherwise the movie will likely be kicked to 60hz desktop res, a MADVR reset might be able to kick it back to 23hz but I would have thgought the movie would have to be restarted anyway, mine do when I pause KODI DS and my screen saver kicks in, that could be windowed mode issue though I guess.

Just not sure its really a problem we should be asking MADSHI to spend his precious time on, how many people really leave movies paused when their machine goes to sleep, makes zero sense to me.

Its up to MADSHI though.
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Old 27th September 2018, 11:55   #52757  |  Link
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Originally Posted by mclingo View Post
Hi, this isnt strictly true. I have a first gen LG oled and I can tell you that if you put a good signal into it you'll get a good one out.

Being bad a near blacks seemed to be the mantra I LCD owners and reviewers pedalled a lot to the point where i believed it myself and spent what seemed to be hours trying to find out if I had a good or bad example of my TV as something else that was suggested was that some were better than others.
The issue with OLED is not that they are poor at near blacks, its that near blacks tend to house macroblocking and compression artefacts which aren’t masked like on an LCD.
This isn’t because LCD’s are good at near blacks per sey, its because it cant show pure black so where you would see a blocky black mess in a shadow on an OLED you would just see a smooth dark grey none black area on LCD. If you turn up the brightness on an OLED and lose pure black the blocks disappear. I have both an OLED and a fairly decent LCD so I know this to be the case.

This is most apparent on highly compressed streamed material, some of it is completely unwatchable but this is not the fault of OLED, it’s the source.
Later gen units have deployed some processing to deal with this but these source problems but I’ve heard that some stuff still looks pretty bad.
This is why I use MADVR, this really helps with compression artefacts and macroblocking to the point where some material is watchable again.
I good example of this is Snowpiercer, this was completely unwatchable some early OLEDs, you could crush some problems away but that would just make something else pop. With MADVR you can pretty much deal with all the problems by deploying reduce banding artefacts on high.
One thing new OLEDs are better at is quantisation errors at near black. Brightness on early units was quite notchy in that there would be a large jump between brightness 49-50 but then nothing again until 53. This could cause quantisation problems where you could get raised blacks but again only on poorly compressed material.
The latest SOLO movie is full of near blacks and greys, I have ZERO issues on my OLED.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post
This is quite true. I come from a Panny plasma screen and I can honestly say the OLED is quite a leap forward. But you're 100% correct that it will emphasize poor source quality. Last night watching Mayans on my cable system where they compress everything to 720p59 at around 3mbps the night scenes were attrocious on my OLED. But that's not the OLED's fault! The source was highly compressed and the OLED didn't mask it. Nor do I think it should IMO. Black levels on this thing has been extremely impressive. Like you, I found Solo to be excellent on the OLED.
Ah, the good old "It's not the Oleds fault when compressed content looks bad" theory, that gets posted whenever someone complains about near-black artifacting issues on forums...
Not true, at least not when it comes to LG Oleds.
My 2016 C6 had very poor near black gradation and came out of black way to fast and there was no way to really fix this.

Now my 2018 C8 is very different. Near-blacks have smoother gradation and it doesn't come out of black so fast. Test pattern usually look pretty good.

But then why does this thing show terrible macroblocking/artifacting/flashing near-blacks in certain scenes??

Here is what's happening on 2018 LG Oleds (2017 probably too but I never owned one):
The way they implemented the better near-blacks seems to be a comrpomise. On a still image that is not moving everything looks fine, also test pattern usually look fine.

If I play such a scene that shows ugly macroblocking or flashing near-blacks and pause it, all the macroblocks and ugliness suddenly vanishes. If I hit play it appears again...
Now lets pause the scene (picture looking good) and use mpc-hc's pan&scan move function bound to keyboard keys to shift the picture around. What's happening now is that every time the picture shifts some of the near-blacks including macroblocks that were barely visible before flash up for like a split second, making it look really ugly. If I display the picture in a borderless window and move it around with my mouse parts of it begin to glow.

This effect doesn't show up in every near-black scene, far from it. Neutral gray is fine, it seems only certain colored near-blacks are affected, some more than others and that's why the flashing near-blacks effect doesn't show up in every scene. This issue is also present with high quality content like UHD Blu-ray but much more subtle. The reason for that I think is that on high quality content there usually aren't any rapidly changing larger areas of the same color like macroblocks. Though on scene changes and fade to blacks I can sometimes see it flash up and also during camera pans the edges of objects sometimes start glowing or some parts of the picture are flickering.
It's really weird as it seems like this effect only shows up when specific near-black colored pixels change to other specific colors and that's why only certain scenes are affected. It's kinda like the pixels are getting too much voltage to get them started and then they calm down.


Increasing the brightness on the TV to a certain point completely fixes this problem but it induces black glow and also makes the near-black gradation worse. I guess a lot of people who don't watch in a dark room do that anyway, as they don't care about black no longer being true black. Since there is such a big panel to panel variance on Oleds, some might even have some panel glow at default brightness and those will probably never experience this problem. Setting color on the TV to 0 also fixes this, which makes sense as from my observations only certain colored near-blacks are causing this.

When I first noticed this I thought it must be a defective TV but on the other hand I've found quite a few posts on forums where people reported similar issues but no one ever seems to really investigate this and then people jump in and tell the "Oled is so good it shows every flaw in content" myth...

So I requested a panel replacement from LG, not only for the here explained issue but also due to vertical banding and they agreed to it. When the technician arrived I showed him the flashing near-blacks issue and he immediately said that he has seen this problem on a lot of Oleds and he doesn't think a new panel would fix this and he also couldn't really explain why this is happening. He still agreed to install the new panel though.
It didn't fix the problem, it still showed during the exact same scenes as with the old panel, though the vertical banding is a bit better. What I also noticed is there seems to be a huge panel variance regarding the low end. The new panel is much darker on everything below 10% and has some heavy black crush. So comparing settings on Oled seems to be really pointless with such a variance from panel to panel.


Here are 3 screenshots if anybody wants to test this on their 2017 or 2018 oled. 2016s didn't have this problem, they had poor near-blacks from the get go even without the picture moving.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...tx?usp=sharing

To test this you need to shift the pictures around. Mpc-hc has controls for that (set them to keyboard shortcuts), or display it in a borderless window on a completely black desktop and move it around with the mouse or use the TVs live zoom to zoom in and pan the picture around.
Best to do this in a dark room at default TV brightness, technicolor default preset. Just make sure to have set the correct video levels. Also disable any madVR picture enhancements for testing.
As there is quite a big panel to panel variance I'm not sure if this test will even show the problem on every 2017+ Oled because slight changes in settings can make it better or even fix it in one scene but then make it worse in another.
Also some panels might be more prone to this than others, or might require different colored near-blacks to cause the issue.
The only thing that really seemed to fix it on both of my panels was to turn color to 0 or to increase brightness, making near-blacks brighter but this also results in black glow and worse gradation, so not really a good option.
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Old 27th September 2018, 12:35   #52758  |  Link
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I want to upscale 1080p bluray content to 2160 but I don't see image improvement. I have 4k 55" screen tv and 2.3m distance.

I tried with Bluray Season 2 of GOT with different NGU settings.

Can someone recommand me some settings for GTX1060 6 gb?
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Old 27th September 2018, 12:46   #52759  |  Link
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Why do people keep buying the LG OLEDs when Pana and Sony based on reviews appear to make better displays? =/

ccrys, oh boy.. I just upgraded by 1060 to a 1080 and TBH I'm not getting a lot extra out of it picture wise, it's quieter and I can boost chroma a little but a 1060 6GB really is the bees knees for the price on 1080 content with madVR.

What I did with it was use NGU sharp high doubling and then used SSIM 2D to downscale, you should be able to get away with NGU AA medium for chroma. Slap any extra sharpening you want on top but you won't need much if it's good content.
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Old 27th September 2018, 13:05   #52760  |  Link
yok833
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Hi guys,
When I have tried HDR-SDR on my LG OLED 2017 tv, the picture is much too dark ?
Is there something I am doing wrong or should I only use HDR Passthrough ?
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