Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion. Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules. |
29th June 2015, 17:52 | #31401 | Link | |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 62
|
Quote:
I hope Mathias sees value in it! I would appreciate it very much. Last edited by TheLion; 29th June 2015 at 18:12. |
|
29th June 2015, 18:09 | #31402 | Link | |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 62
|
Quote:
With real content as well as with most other test patterns like e.g. the one linked by viewer (thanks for that!) differences are way too difficult to clearly spot in my experience. @ madshi: This is also one example where the new Bilateral option performs especially weak ("sharpness", high frequency detail extraction) imho - SuperRes improves it somewhat. Interestingly the new super-xbr (especially without SuperRes) shows massive artifacts with this chart when the (new) antiringing filter is activated! |
|
29th June 2015, 18:24 | #31403 | Link | |
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 919
|
Quote:
Lanczos 4 tap is a clear winner with this pattern, no visible Moire at all, nor brightness shift. Bilateral again, is the weakest of them all, it simply destroys the chroma information.
__________________
System: i7 3770K, GTX660, Win7 64bit, Panasonic ST60, Dell U2410. Last edited by James Freeman; 29th June 2015 at 18:31. |
|
29th June 2015, 18:50 | #31405 | Link |
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 919
|
This chroma test pattern also shows that LinearLight in downscaling is a MUST, to look anywhere like the fullsize image.
To me LL always looked a lot closer to the original in term of brightness when watching in a small window. Try something funky: Bilateral for chroma, and no LL in downscaling. You can go no further from the source.... I settled on: Upscaling: Lanczos4 + AR Downscaling: Catmul-Rom + AR + LL Chroma: Lanczos4 + AR
__________________
System: i7 3770K, GTX660, Win7 64bit, Panasonic ST60, Dell U2410. Last edited by James Freeman; 29th June 2015 at 18:56. |
29th June 2015, 19:47 | #31407 | Link | |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 753
|
Quote:
|
|
29th June 2015, 20:09 | #31408 | Link | ||||||||
Registered Developer
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,140
|
So which chroma upscaling algo do you prefer?
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Ok, to be fair, I'm a bit overdramatic here. This image does have another benefit for chroma upscaling testing: Basically it allows you to check if an anti-ringing algorithm is too strict or not. A good anti-ringing algorithm should not make this image look too bad, just a bit worse than with the AR filter off. So this image clearly shows that the strict AR algorithm I'm currently using for super-xbr is really *very* strict. But on the positive side, it surpresses *all* ringing, while being very fast. I could implement the same AR algorithm which I'm using for super-xbr luma AR, but it would slow down the super-xbr chroma upscaling quite noticeably. And having a strict AR algorithm can sometimes be beneficial, as well (see the blue artifacts (or lack thereof) in viewer's chroma upscaling comparison). Judging chroma upscaling algorithms is difficult. Judging AR quality is difficult, too. FWIW, Bilateral chroma upscaling and chroma SuperRes both look at the luma channel for guidance. And this specific test image/video has an empty luma channel. That's why it makes Bilateral and chroma SuperRes look very bad. That's not necessarily an indication of real world performance, though. For a fair and objective analysis of chroma upscaling algorithms, multiple different test images/videos should be used. If you use only one image/video, you're getting only half the picture (or less). That said, I'm mostly interested in SuperRes feedback atm. |
||||||||
29th June 2015, 20:30 | #31409 | Link |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,812
|
Yes, it's the AR filter which leads to the darkening.
But without, the ringing is very annoying. The ringing filter of Jinc doesn't have this issue. Btw: Lanczos upscaling looks terrible with the cartoon sample. Ringing outta hell... |
29th June 2015, 21:07 | #31411 | Link | |
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 76
|
Quote:
Perhaps that may explain why present queue doesn't fill all the way initially when using 24hz, but it doesn't explain the bug. The bug occurs on all refresh rates as far as my testing goes. The bug is when toggling to exclusive fullscreen, then windowed, then back to fullscreen again, the rendering and present queue completely drop and the playback stutters. This only occurs with D3D11 10bit. You need to pause the video and unpause it to get the queues to fill properly again. Using D3D9 10bit or D3D11 8bit, I can freely toggle in and out of exclusive fullscreen without queues not filling. Plus the fact it takes longer going fullscreen with D3D11 10bit than compared to D3D9 10bit/D3D11 8bit. Last edited by SecurityBunny; 30th June 2015 at 03:46. |
|
29th June 2015, 22:03 | #31412 | Link |
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 860
|
I don't know if this is the best example, but no one seems to be posting film shots...
jinc chroma and luma https://farm1.staticflickr.com/325/1...0025878e_o.png xbr chroma jinc luma https://farm1.staticflickr.com/405/1...4808c583_o.png xbr doubling jinc chroma https://farm1.staticflickr.com/421/1...7a8bb604_o.png xbr doubling xbr chroma https://farm1.staticflickr.com/554/1...6a825444_o.png As you can see, it's difficult to tell apart chroma methods, even doubling Any thoughts? Last edited by JarrettH; 29th June 2015 at 22:06. |
30th June 2015, 00:19 | #31414 | Link |
Kid for Today
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,477
|
TYVM for providing xbr-25, I didn't have time yet but I'll recompare it all again tomorrow. This said I was plenty happy with NEDI+SR in 88.13 and I'm afraid that the EE in xbr and NNEDI3 is just part of their design, I mean you want sharper edges you got them duh.......NEDI looks more natural and seems to be less agressively seeking edges, different methods for differents needs IMO. NEDI is perfect for 720@1080p, xbr50 for tiny videos but ideally I would like to find an in-between for untouched DVD's that require something sharp but not overly.
Totally, I don't use any kind of sharpening and if there has to be only one knob for SR please make it strength so we could all finetune it depending on our rig and personal taste. Last edited by leeperry; 30th June 2015 at 12:33. |
30th June 2015, 07:34 | #31415 | Link | |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,650
|
Quote:
I just figured aufkrawall had already determined 100 was the most suitable sharpness to compare Jinc against, but obviously not. Any chance you can provide those as individual images? Last edited by ryrynz; 30th June 2015 at 07:48. |
|
30th June 2015, 08:34 | #31416 | Link |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,127
|
I think super-xbr150 + AR chroma is a small improvement over Jinc3 + AR. As long it does not incur a large performance hit, it is my choice for chroma upscaling for the future. The improved sharpness is apparent with real-world content.
|
30th June 2015, 12:54 | #31418 | Link | |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 36
|
Quote:
1. Jinc+AR+SuperRes (Default 2/1/0) or 2. S-XBR-100+AR+ SuperRes (Default 2/1/0) coz for the life of me i cannot discern any noticeable difference. but if S-XBR is now much faster than Jinc then i think i will stick to number 2 config. p.s. if I use S-XBR for Image Doubling does checking Interop Hack adds additional performance? or it is only applicable when using NNEDI3? Last edited by RyuzakiL; 30th June 2015 at 12:57. |
|
30th June 2015, 14:06 | #31419 | Link |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 70
|
@RyuzakiL
IMO and from what I've read on the thread, the principal difference is that sXBR is faster than Jinc. Also, you can't discern any noticeable difference because chroma upscaling has little impact on the image quality compared to image upscaling.
__________________
iiyama prolite xb2483hsu 1080p60 Gamma=2.25 - Intel Core i3-2100 3.10GHz - AMD Radeon HD 6850, RGB 4:4:4 Full range - MPC-HC + XYSubFilter + madVR |
30th June 2015, 14:08 | #31420 | Link |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,812
|
With movies I hardly see any difference with any HQ chroma upscaling method so far. However, I could imagine that there are edge cases in which the ringing sensitivity can make a difference with low quality sources, but I doubt it would be critical.
So I assume it's not a bad idea to rely on super-xbr for chroma if you aren't watching cartoon content which isn't good quality in terms of ringing. |
Tags |
direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|