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Old 6th October 2019, 02:42   #57561  |  Link
tp4tissue
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DMU View Post
@janos666
I look forward to your research. Here are some more photos (oversaturation vs undersaturation) for comparison. True somewhere in the middle. AMD driver, which affects the color - 19.5.1. But if you install it under Windows 1903, the HDR does not work at all (the image will be dark).
I mean, if you're not using a 3Dlut, Nothing is where it should be anyway. So these comparisons are m00t. there's no reference for you to say , this looks oversaturated or undersaturated, you simply can't know that.

Your display could be pulling on red more than blue, and if you adjust saturation, it's drawing all the colors in a direction that's already skewed.

Again, you're entitled to an opinion of the image, but it's in reference to your visual taste and NOT to what the data actually intended.

If you care about ( the right ) Color, get an xrite, w/ 3dlut correction, this is a non-issue.
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Old 6th October 2019, 05:15   #57562  |  Link
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Can't figure out why some 4K HDR remuxes have a stutter during pan scenes in fullscreen (exclusive and non-exlcusive). If I don't full screen, it's smooth. Claims repeated frames every 8 minutes, and my 2080Ti isn't even at 50%. No dropped frames...

EDIT: It's caused by having MadVR set refresh rate to 24hz. I tried setting 2160p23 and 2160p24 but both result in a slight stutter. Leaving my LG OLED in 60hz results in smooth, jutter free, motion during pans and much less blur. 24hz playback should be superior though? Any ideas?

Last edited by saracas; 6th October 2019 at 05:42.
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Old 6th October 2019, 08:34   #57563  |  Link
arcspin
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Try setting present frames in advance to 1. That has fixed the issue for many. Using D3D9 presentation with 8-bit RGB output rather than D3D11 presentation has also fixed the issue for others

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Old 6th October 2019, 11:48   #57564  |  Link
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Originally Posted by tp4tissue View Post
I mean, if you're not using a 3Dlut these comparisons are m00t [...] get an xrite
Could you please stop derailing discussions like this every time?
There's no point using a meter if people can't first correctly setup their graphics pipeline to get it to at least display in the most accurate existing mode, which is what is being discussed here. 3DLUTs are for correcting inaccuracies in the display, not massive symptoms of bad configuration of the source.
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Old 6th October 2019, 13:04   #57565  |  Link
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Originally Posted by DMU View Post
AMD driver, which affects the color - 19.5.1. But if you install it under Windows 1903, the HDR does not work at all (the image will be dark).
Please tell me your photos of which movie? And what time code? Can you give a link or upload somewhere?
'Mortal Engines' BD, close to the begging but I don't consider this a really great test case, I just happened to have this open at the time I noticed something was off (I started watching it but stopped there).

I have 19.9.3 and 436.51 installed now (respectively on the two machines) with Win10 1909. I think the main issue is an HDMI metadata error (the important part is the TV's OSD banner with the signal info): NV HDR - AMD HDR - AMD Win10-HDR. Windowed/exclusive doesn't make a difference with AMD HDR (I also tried turning the Game Bar off on the AMD system for this test).

Quote:
Originally Posted by tp4tissue View Post
I mean, if you're not using a 3Dlut, Nothing is where it should be anyway. So these comparisons are m00t. there's no reference for you to say , this looks oversaturated or undersaturated, you simply can't know that.

Your display could be pulling on red more than blue, and if you adjust saturation, it's drawing all the colors in a direction that's already skewed.

Again, you're entitled to an opinion of the image, but it's in reference to your visual taste and NOT to what the data actually intended.

If you care about ( the right ) Color, get an xrite, w/ 3dlut correction, this is a non-issue.
Well, I do have an i1Pro2 and an i1d3. Just so you know, I never cared to look at the colors with movie content on the AMD system before I noticed the strange readings in CalMAN (how the HDR mode seemed to be limited to Rec709 colors) during my last calibration attempts. Since that software is tied to a hardware ID I choose to install it on my AMD notebook (for flexibility) but I normally watch movies with the nVidia based PC (the TV is my PC monitor). That's when the comparisons started. After that I realized I can run madTPG on the nV PC while CalMAN is still running on the AMD notebook. That way I could finish the AutoCAL process with sane results.

On top of that, while using any calibration, no matter how bad, the same source should produce the same colors. The relative comparison makes some sense in this case anyways.

I can't get a decent HDR calibration done with the AMD notebook as a source device if it distorts the colors and limits the gamut to Rec709. You can surely agree with that.

Last edited by janos666; 6th October 2019 at 18:18.
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Old 6th October 2019, 18:33   #57566  |  Link
saracas
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Originally Posted by arcspin View Post
Try setting present frames in advance to 1. That has fixed the issue for many. Using D3D9 presentation with 8-bit RGB output rather than D3D11 presentation has also fixed the issue for others

Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk
Thanks that seems to fix it.

Last edited by saracas; 6th October 2019 at 18:36.
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Old 6th October 2019, 23:19   #57567  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
The chroma quality set there is automatically matched to the luma quality, no need to change it specifically. If you leave it on "let madVR decide" (recommended) madVR will use the same selection as luma, however for the chroma component of NGU image upscaling "very high" actually uses NGU medium for doubling and low for quadrupling. The only thing to tune is possibly turning down the chroma quality a bit if you are almost able to run luma on high or very high, so setting chroma to medium or low might allow a higher luma setting.

The chroma setting there is less important than the 'chroma upscaling' option.
Just curious, is there any good reason for this? I mean, it seems equally important to me. The same would go to luma, not that madVR can do it but for 540p it seems to me that it should not be very different upscale to 1080p with Lanczos and then double with NGU, than double with NGU and then upscale to 2160p with Lanczos. Even the first option seems better because NGU would be doing most of the work.
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Old 6th October 2019, 23:40   #57568  |  Link
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The key point to understand is that upscaling does not increase detail and introduces artifacts. After upscaling each pixel represents less detail compared to the source pixels, so GPU effort is much better spent on earlier scaling steps. As you increase the resolution each individual pixel becomes less and less important.

You want NGU to start with the source pixels, not after lanczos, so it can preserve maximum detail and avoid upscaling artifacts. The second doubling step is much less important than the first.

I like using NGU high for chroma upscaling (the first doubling step for chroma) but using NGU medium for the second and especially NGU low for the third is much less important. By the third doubling doubling step I am forced to agree with the sentiments of tp4tissue, there really is no practical difference between using NGU high and lanczos3 or bicubic.
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Last edited by Asmodian; 6th October 2019 at 23:43.
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Old 7th October 2019, 00:59   #57569  |  Link
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Thanks, perfectly understood.
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Old 7th October 2019, 23:52   #57570  |  Link
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Originally Posted by janos666 View Post
I think the main issue is an HDMI metadata error (the important part is the TV's OSD banner with the signal info): NV HDR - AMD HDR - AMD Win10-HDR.
Perhaps you are right. See the attachment.
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Old 8th October 2019, 00:04   #57571  |  Link
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I have Asus PB279Q. 100% sRGB.

What calibration should I choose in madVR? There is no sRGB.
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Old 8th October 2019, 00:12   #57572  |  Link
Asmodian
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What calibration should I choose in madVR? There is no sRGB.
sRGB = BT.709
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Old 8th October 2019, 00:13   #57573  |  Link
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Thanks.
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Old 8th October 2019, 10:24   #57574  |  Link
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Originally Posted by DMU View Post
Perhaps you are right. See the attachment.

do you have anything set in the TV calibration section of MADVR, mine is now set to off, I previously had to calibrate to BT2020 due to a bug with AMD drivers with sub 60hz SDR material but i've never had an issue with HDR and still dont, all my comparisions look the same.
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Old 8th October 2019, 14:22   #57575  |  Link
DMU
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Originally Posted by mclingo View Post
do you have anything set in the TV calibration section of MADVR
Hello. In madVR devices->calibration set "disable calibration control for this display and check "disable GPU gamma ramps".
Can you check on your TV there is a choice of colour gamut (BT.2020 or DCI-P3) for AMD HDR?
Thank you.
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Old 8th October 2019, 22:23   #57576  |  Link
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Originally Posted by DMU View Post
Hello. In madVR devices->calibration set "disable calibration control for this display and check "disable GPU gamma ramps".
Can you check on your TV there is a choice of colour gamut (BT.2020 or DCI-P3) for AMD HDR?
Thank you.
There is a colour gamut optionb but its just normal or full, i'm guessing full is BT2020

A couple of other things:

- I'm not using the latest beta HDR stuff, just using stock MADVR v0.92.14

- I have passthru to display set and no other options set apart from send HDR meta to display

- i have calibration turned off and gamma ramps unticked.

- my TV behaves oddly when I set it to PC mode, colours are all off, i havent played with this for a while but thinking back I may have been getting something like you are, what is your TV set to as the input, mine is configured to just standard HDMI so not set to PC, bluray etc, try a different input name as this can actually change how the unput works, for instance when in PC mode a lot of my motion controls are disabled.

I gave my HTPC a thorough workout this weekend gone, watched loads of movies, SDR and HDR, not issues are at, no drops, repearts, black screens, crashes, odd colouration.
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Old 8th October 2019, 22:40   #57577  |  Link
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yeah I was right, check this out, the top one is with identical settings PC, TV and MADVR with my TV input set to PC mode, bottom TV set to "HDMI", I also set it to "BLURAY" and it was also ok so, no idea why this is though but it looks like identical behavior to you, try changing your input mode.



https://1drv.ms/u/s!AgvFafeelEBij4AF...zG6VA?e=lcXAog
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Old 10th October 2019, 23:15   #57578  |  Link
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Don't know why but NGU doesn't work for image upscaling with DVB-T sources. This is on Windows 7 with v.0.92.17 and JRiver or MPC-HC. It works for chroma upscaling, but for doubling when I select any NGU the OSD shows super-xbr.
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Old 10th October 2019, 23:22   #57579  |  Link
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What are the proper settings for 4K HDR BD Remuxes on an LG OLED? I have NVIDIA drivers set to "RGB Full" and MadVR set to "10bit or higher". I still see some banding in some scenes scenes. Maybe it's normal, but I don't remember seeing them on SDR 1080p BDs.
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Old 10th October 2019, 23:44   #57580  |  Link
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10bit likely isn't optimal for your screen.. As far as banding goes I believe only calibration is going to help you there.
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