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Old 15th January 2014, 14:50   #18861  |  Link
jdobbs
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I highly doubt that. It's only with FRIM encodes that the artifacts show.
This doesn't make sense. If the issue was in the encode it would always be there. How could it correct itself when you change playback settings? It has to be a result of the playback device.
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Old 15th January 2014, 16:34   #18862  |  Link
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This doesn't make sense. If the issue was in the encode it would always be there. How could it correct itself when you change playback settings? It has to be a result of the playback device.
Jdobbs, I decided to do cloudy with chance of meat ball 2 as well and with frimencode and I can repeat this each time I encode; but like you mention how it can change with playback is still mystery.

I am gone play on hardware player and see what is happening, when I played on software player my result is identical limobar.
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Old 15th January 2014, 16:43   #18863  |  Link
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Jdobbs, I decided to do cloudy with chance of meat ball 2 as well and with frimencode and I can repeat this each time I encode; but like you mention how it can change with playback is still mystery.

I am gone play on hardware player and see what is happening, when I played on software player my result is identical limobar.
Like I said, though, if the problem is in the encode it would have to always be there. That, to me, says it is absolutely a problem in the playback mechanism.

This is why I hesitate to accept bug reports from software players -- you never know whether the issue is in the player (and it usually is).
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Old 15th January 2014, 16:53   #18864  |  Link
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True, hardware player would be big help. I am gone run some test and hopefully have meaningful report.

Just quick question can you test sample as well. It is only 29 second and it would add weight to report.
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Old 15th January 2014, 16:58   #18865  |  Link
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True, hardware player would be big help. I am gone run some test and hopefully have meaningful report.

Just quick question can you test sample as well. It is only 29 second and it would add weight to report.
I'll pick up "Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs 2" at some point and run a backup.
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Old 15th January 2014, 17:07   #18866  |  Link
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I'll pick up "Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs 2" at some point and run a backup.
I will do the same, in fact I already ordered it and hopefully I will have it soon.
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Old 15th January 2014, 17:24   #18867  |  Link
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It looks like it isn't going to be released in 3D here until January 28th.
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Old 15th January 2014, 17:26   #18868  |  Link
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Hi jdobbs, HWK & Limobar, played the iso sample on my Panasonic DMP-BDT210 3D player and sample played fine in 3D

Hope that helps

Lee

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Old 15th January 2014, 17:42   #18869  |  Link
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Thank you, marvelous to hear such a news. I am doing backup as well and will also test for sure (extra test doesn't hurt)
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Old 16th January 2014, 00:06   #18870  |  Link
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No, need to assume. You can be assured no XP support and no it is not Jdobbs fault. Program he uses require win 7 at minimum to work.
I'm glad WinDoze 8 isn't required. I'm staying with XP, Doze 7 and Mac OS X Mavericks. I do not like the functionality/bland look of 8 at all.

I'm loving the DTS Express support. Thus far, Karate Kid is doing well with PowerDVD 12 and LG Player. I have some others to try soon. Yay!
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Old 16th January 2014, 00:35   #18871  |  Link
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This doesn't make sense. If the issue was in the encode it would always be there. How could it correct itself when you change playback settings? It has to be a result of the playback device.
The explanation is not so hard to imagine. There is a difference in encoder settings used that the hardware accelerated- and the software decoders within TMT 5 allow.

That it's the hardware accelerated decoding that gives artifacts and not the software decoding, is odd. I would think that HW decoding has strict rules and that software decoding can be more forgiving when it comes to used encoder settings.

Knowing that HW decoding goes wrong, there's no reason to exclude the FRIM encoder as the reason for the artifacts, at this point.
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Old 16th January 2014, 01:11   #18872  |  Link
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The explanation is not so hard to imagine. There is a difference in encoder settings used that the hardware accelerated- and the software decoders within TMT 5 allow.

That it's the hardware accelerated decoding that gives artifacts and not the software decoding, is odd. I would think that HW decoding has strict rules and that software decoding can be more forgiving when it comes to used encoder settings.

Knowing that HW decoding goes wrong, there's no reason to exclude the FRIM encoder as the reason for the artifacts, at this point.
I disagree completely. The encoded stream is the encoded stream. It isn't variable, or changing. If it can be decoded correctly -- then the stream is fine. The only variable is the player. In other words, since the blocks you see aren't in the encoded stream (obviously because they aren't always there) -- they have to be created by the decoder.

I've seen hardware acceleration cause problems in all kinds of scenarios. That's why it's an option that can be disabled. This scenario is no different.

I have no vested interest in whether FRIMEncode works or doesn't work -- I'm just using logic here, and everything points to the decoder.
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Old 16th January 2014, 01:24   #18873  |  Link
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You can disagree with me, but what I'm saying is logical.

You can create an encode that gets decoded fine by more forgiving decoders, but if that encode doesn't meet the required standard it is supposed to meet, the encode is still to blame and not the decoder that only allows that required standard.
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Old 16th January 2014, 01:28   #18874  |  Link
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You can disagree with me, but what I'm saying is logical.
The bottom line is that the ONLY good test is using a standalone player, and having done a large number of 3D discs with FRIMEncoder I have not encountered a single one that has playback issues (on two different brands of players).

While anything is possible in a quantum world, the probabilities point heavily toward the decoder.
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Old 16th January 2014, 01:31   #18875  |  Link
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The bottom line is that the ONLY good test is using a standalone player, and having done a large number of 3D discs with FRIMEncoder I have not encountered a single one that has playback issues (on two different players).
I finish test and OPPO player provide exceptional playback of video and 3D experience, Ps3 also play without any issue. Although subtitle depth is lost when BD-RB mux assets after encode. Another thing I notice is on TMT5 frequency of problem occurring has gone down significantly.

FRIM Version 1.20
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Old 16th January 2014, 01:34   #18876  |  Link
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I finish test and OPPO player provide exceptional playback of video and 3D experience, Ps3 also play without any issue. Although subtitle depth is lost when BD-RB mux assets after encode.
Same with my Samsung and Sony players.

I'll check on the subtitle depth issue.
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Old 16th January 2014, 01:40   #18877  |  Link
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Same with my Samsung and Sony players.

I'll check on the subtitle depth issue.
I am quite happy with compression of FRIM, I am gone do movie with longest run time I have and see how it goes.
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Old 16th January 2014, 01:55   #18878  |  Link
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I am quite happy with compression of FRIM, I am gone do movie with longest run time I have and see how it goes.
I ran a group of PSNR tests with 2D encodes from FRIM and X264 at different settings. X264 did better overall, but it really wasn't as great a difference as I would have thought, and I think it was mainly due to it's two pass ability. I may do another comparison using ABR on both.
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Old 16th January 2014, 02:02   #18879  |  Link
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You really can't compare them even with ABR, unless disable advance options such as lookahead and MB Tree etc.
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Old 16th January 2014, 02:08   #18880  |  Link
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Jdobbs, I notice something interesting I was extracting main movie from cloudy with chance of meat balls 2 and I used mpls, but when I finish tsmuxer only extracted mvc stream from first segment which is 7 min 34 sec.

I am wondering if it has to do something with faulty playback of 3D in software when mux is done.

I am gone send this info to Roman as well.
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