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28th October 2016, 17:41 | #25121 | Link |
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It will almost always reencode because there are too many required factors that are too hard to check. The BD "basic" specification is about 1500 pages long. Yes, some obvious factors are checked (things like compliant sizing, acceptable audio parameters, etc.) and they are corrected via information in the PSEUDO folder. Others (like GOP sizes, bitrate restrictions, b-frame limits, etc) aren't checked and would require reencoding to assure they are met.
The best advice is to always reencode when you are planning playback on a BD player. The problem is that some players are very forgiving, and they will play things that aren't even close to compliant -- so the fact that it will play on a certain player isn't a good standard to use. There is no guarantee it will play on another (or even the same player following a firmware upgrade) unless the BD restrictions are met. But if you are 100% sure that the source is already compliant -- just import and delete the PSEUDO folder from within the generated BD structure and burn. Last edited by jdobbs; 28th October 2016 at 17:50. |
28th October 2016, 19:12 | #25122 | Link |
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Thanks, jdobbs, for the response and very helpful info. I figured that the answer would be that it's probably best to re-encode to ensure compatibility. I'd rather not alter the original stream if I didn't have to, and since I've only had issues with a small percentage of MKV's, I was hoping that there would be a simple way to determine if a steam is incompatible in advance, rather than after burning to physical media. It appears that there is not a simple way. Then again, to your point, even the ones that "work" may not be totally compliant and just happen to work in my 2 players. Thanks again.
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28th October 2016, 19:26 | #25123 | Link |
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It is strange to have a MKV file with the video set for profile 4.1.
The profile value is just that a value, a label. In a nutshell, a 4.0 file will be less than a certain size, while 4.1 can be larger, i.e., the size used on Blu-rays. That said, to test the file's playablility on your Blu-ray player is to do just that, play it on your Blu-ray player. But, via a USB thumbdrive. If your player can play standalone files, like MKV, via USB attached devices, or DVD/Blu-ray ROM, then place the video on a thumbdrive and see if the player will play it. If not, the player will normally tell you why. In the cases that I have run across, the file was wrapped incorrectly such that the audio was not correctly stored so that the player will not be handle it. In that case, I just re-wrap it with MKVmerge. That has fixed it every time. As a side note, when burning the output, as suggested by Jdobbs, it is not really necessary to delete the pseudo directory. Just do not add it to the ImgBurn program. Even if you do, the Blu-ray player will ignore it. You can always add content to a Blu-ray disc that isn't part of the BDMV programming. That way you can put the disc into a computer and the extra material is considered as BD-ROM content. You could store images, PDFs, etc. |
28th October 2016, 19:31 | #25124 | Link |
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The players that have been released over the past few years have been designed to play all kinds of multimedia. As such, the "guts" are the same, no matter if the source is via USB or physical media. That is why content played via Blu-ray authored content will normally play even when not Blu-ray spec compliant. But, as noted in my above posting, sometimes a file may have other issues that keep the player from playing it, no matter the source.
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28th October 2016, 21:07 | #25125 | Link | |
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Last edited by jdobbs; 28th October 2016 at 21:12. |
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28th October 2016, 21:46 | #25126 | Link | |
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If you don't already have MediaInfo, I strongly suggest that you get it. It isn't always exactly right, but it will help you examine the MKV files and if you can become more familiar with the x264 settings (which I did until I became blind and sterile, and I STILL don't know much, as Sharc will tell you...) then you can open the MKV file in MediaInfo, choose 'text' in the view drop-down menu, and scroll down under the VIDEO section until you come to the x264 settings that usually start with cabac=1 ref=4, etc. I know for my OPPO that if the ref or 'B' frames are too high for the resolution or the level (4.1) it won't play. I can fudge it a LITTLE, like get away with maybe ref=5 and B=7 on occasion, but not any higher or it simply will not play as an MKV. And, if you put that kind of file into a BDMV folder using say TSMuxer, the player still won't play it. So, hopefully that might give you a bit of a start in being able to read these files ahead of time and maybe learn some of the 'acceptable' parameters for Blu-ray. BUT... as JD said, you are best off with any 'off' MKV files letting BDRB re-encode them so that you KNOW that they will be compliant. It's no biggie really. When I have an MKV file that is pesky but I don't want to lose any real quality, even if the file is small, simply choose an output size slightly smaller than the MKV file size. If you choose a slightly smaller size, and then choose either 'auto' or whatever quality you want at that point, you won't lose any appreciable quality at all AND then the file will be encoded properly when done. And, as far as the audio, you can keep whatever you want. Hope that helps... |
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28th October 2016, 22:34 | #25127 | Link |
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@jdobbs speaking of the blu-ray spec, i may have stumbled upon an incompatibility with bdrb and the spec. I needed to use one of the bdrb rebuilt discs in a third party application. Upon starting the job of what it needed to do, it instantly jumped to complete. The problem was in hou bdrb handles removed audio & subs. I know bdrb reassigns removed streams to the first english? or available PID which technically duplicates the same ID. This somehow made the 3rd party app think there was 4+hours of audio track when the video title was only 2.5hrs long. Thus it instantly jumped to complete. The only way the 3rd party would proceed with the job was to remove the HD audio track (which the other ones were reassigned to) and then it would encode just fine.
The solution was relatively simple, Open BDEdit, go to playlist tab, STN section and remove the duplicate entries under Au and PG. Unless i missunderstood the standard each stream identifier must be unique and in ascending order, duplicate entries violate the specification. Is there anything you could perhaps look at that even though the streams are removed, the PID's are properly assigned an ascending ID or am i mistaking? |
28th October 2016, 23:21 | #25128 | Link | |
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MKV #1: Video ID : 1 Format : AVC Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec Format profile : High@L4.1 Format settings, CABAC : Yes Format settings, ReFrames : 4 frames Codec ID : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC Duration : 1 h 41 min Bit rate mode : Variable Bit rate : 30.0 Mb/s Maximum bit rate : 38.0 Mb/s Width : 1 920 pixels Height : 1 080 pixels Display aspect ratio : 16:9 Frame rate mode : Constant Frame rate : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS Standard : NTSC Color space : YUV Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0 Bit depth : 8 bits Scan type : Progressive Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.603 Stream size : 21.2 GiB (97%) Title : MOVIE_1 Language : English Default : Yes Forced : No Color range : Limited Color primaries : BT.709 Transfer characteristics : BT.709 Matrix coefficients : BT.709 MKV #2: Video ID : 1 Format : AVC Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec Format profile : High@L4.1 Format settings, CABAC : Yes Format settings, ReFrames : 2 frames Codec ID : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC Duration : 1 h 36 min Bit rate mode : Variable Bit rate : 23.0 Mb/s Width : 1 920 pixels Height : 1 080 pixels Display aspect ratio : 16:9 Frame rate mode : Constant Frame rate : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS Color space : YUV Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0 Bit depth : 8 bits Scan type : Progressive Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.462 Stream size : 15.5 GiB (91%) Title : MOVIE_2 Default : Yes Forced : No |
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28th October 2016, 23:25 | #25129 | Link | |
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While it isn't perfect, the idea of doing the USB thumbdrive test is to see if the file won't play period. |
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28th October 2016, 23:31 | #25130 | Link |
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For most of my personal use now I simply process a disc using ALTERNATE output and play it back via Serviio. It's a great streaming server, and both of my Sony BD players recognize it immediately and play back flawlessly.
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29th October 2016, 02:25 | #25131 | Link |
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I get Blu-ray discs not just because of the movie, or TV series, but because of the special features as well. I love how movies are put together.
When it comes to TV show MKV files, I have a QNAP TS-451A NAS that is used to play the video files using Kodi 17 via HDMI thru my amp. It will also play Blu-ray ISO files, but at this time can not handle BDJava menus. It doesn't handle BD-RB menus either. It handles all of the audio formats as well. I do not use it for ISO anyway. I use the Blu-ray player for that. |
29th October 2016, 03:16 | #25132 | Link | |
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: AVC Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec Format profile : High@L4.1 Format settings, CABAC : Yes Format settings, ReFrames : 4 frames Codec ID : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC Duration : 1 h 27 min Bit rate : 12.8 Mb/s Width : 1 920 pixels Height : 1 040 pixels Display aspect ratio : 1.85:1 Frame rate mode : Constant Frame rate : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS Color space : YUV Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0 Bit depth : 8 bits Scan type : Progressive Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.268 Stream size : 7.65 GiB (87%) Writing library : x264 core 148 r2705 3f5ed56 Encoding settings : cabac=1 / ref=4 / deblock=1:-3:-3 / analyse=0x3:0x133 / me=umh / subme=10 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.15:0.00 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=32 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=2 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=24 / lookahead_threads=4 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=8 / b_pyramid=2 / b_adapt=2 / b_bias=0 / direct=3 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=2 / keyint=240 / keyint_min=24 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=60 / rc=2pass / mbtree=1 / bitrate=12846 / ratetol=1.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=0 / qpmax=69 / qpstep=4 / cplxblur=20.0 / qblur=0.5 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=3:0.70 Default : Yes Forced : No Statistics Tags Issue : no_variable_data 1970-01-01 00:00:00 / no_variable_data 2010-02-22 21:41:29 FromStats_BitRate : 12835737 FromStats_Duration : 01:27:12.519000000 FromStats_FrameCount : 125455 FromStats_StreamSize : 8395405052 The part in bold above is what you need to look at. But, on some encodes, people deliberately change the code to hide the x264 settings. I've tried to find other ways to 'read' these files, but to no avail. This particular one of mine is a pretty run of the mill MKV that a person may 'run across'. You can see the important parts in red. The stream itself is not set up to force Blu-ray compatibility. The ref frames at 4 should be fine for any playback. But, more importantly, there are 8 'B' frames used which is too high to play in a Blu-ray folder (BDMV) however your player MIGHT play the MKV as is. 8 is a little higher than it should be but my OPPO MIGHT play it okay, or it might stutter or choke it completely. I'll hafta play it and see... Basically though, as I think we've all pretty much stated here, if you are definitely going to play these files in a Blu-ray format or on a hardware player, unless you know fairly thoroughly what you are doing (not that I am one to speak... ) it is ALWAYS best to use BDRB to re-encode the file as I suggested the way to do it above. That way, you don't lose quality and the resulting file will ALWAYS play as it is supposed to... |
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29th October 2016, 03:19 | #25133 | Link | |
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Or, if I don't have to compress too much, I'll do an entire disc encode, but normally I like to save the space for the film. |
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29th October 2016, 08:26 | #25136 | Link | |
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Old SONYs were pretty tolerant. This has definitely changed for the worse, for obvious reasons. |
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29th October 2016, 09:34 | #25137 | Link | |
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or draw your conclusions from the info you find here: https://sites.google.com/site/x264bluray/ Not sure what you mean by "easy way", but check this against the MediaInfo (or similar) report. Applies for the video part only. Audio etc. must be compliant as well. (And the medium itself .....) Many reasons for BD-RB to decide to re-encode. Last edited by Sharc; 29th October 2016 at 10:33. |
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29th October 2016, 13:27 | #25138 | Link |
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@ Lathe; RE: In response to Peter_A,
Unfortunately, it looks like these files have deliberately hidden the x264 settings. I love mediainfo but then I use exiftool(-k) to get a second opinion on any troublesome files. Its a free open source file info reader that handles just about any type of media file and really gets down in the minutiae of file info. Check it out Peter_A, (http://owl.phy.queensu.ca/~phil/exiftool/) One of it's features is •Decodes a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma, lol. Last edited by worknstiff; 29th October 2016 at 13:29. |
29th October 2016, 13:58 | #25139 | Link |
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You'll find that as long as you output in movie-only mode they will play even on Samsung (I have a Samsung player also). Full backups not so much. But with BD discs as cheap as they are these days, it's really not much cost savings to go to BD-5/9 anymore.
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