Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > Hardware & Software > Software players

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 2nd October 2020, 16:52   #1  |  Link
chros
Registered User
 
chros's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,809
Hardware discussion/analysis relating to software playback

Quote:
Originally Posted by NikosD View Post
nVidia officially cancelled the launch of 3070 on 15th of October and pushed it back, just one day after the D-Day, the announcement of Big Navi.

The Earth has already started shaking for the upcoming release...
Hmm, "interesting", I wonder why this happened.

Jim talks about performance/watt/price of Ampere by comparing top dies, he's not impressed Conclusion?
- performance: Ampere *and* Turing together achieved the same thing as Pascal did (last time)
- price: crap/worse than Turing was
- watt: maybe this generation should be called Watt instead of Ampere!

This gen has "only" 2 advantages: HDMI 2.1 and AV1 decoder ...
__________________
Ryzen 5 2600,Asus Prime b450-Plus,16GB,MSI GTX 1060 Gaming X 6GB(v442.92),Win10 LTSC 1809,MPC-BEx64+LAV+MadVR,Yamaha RX-A870,LG OLED65B8(2160p@23/24/25/29/30/50/59/60Hz) | madvr config
chros is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd October 2020, 17:51   #2  |  Link
NikosD
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 2,880
Quote:
Originally Posted by chros View Post
This gen has "only" 2 advantages: HDMI 2.1 and AV1 decoder ...
Both of them supported by AMD RX 6000 series and AV1 HW decoder is supported by Intel's Xe too.
Probably Rocket Lake will support in its Xe HDMI v2.1 too.
But AV1 HW decoder is hardware accelerated playback, not software.
__________________
Win 10 x64 (19042.572) - Core i5-2400 - Radeon RX 470 (20.8.1)
HEVC decoding benchmarks
H.264 DXVA Benchmarks for all
NikosD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd October 2020, 18:33   #3  |  Link
Alexkral
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by chros View Post
This gen has "only" 2 advantages: HDMI 2.1 and AV1 decoder ...
And PCIe 4.0, I wonder if it can be useful for AviSynth AiUpscale and AviSynth Shader in general as the bottleneck is memory transfers from the GPU to the CPU.
__________________
AviSynth AiUpscale
Alexkral is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd October 2020, 19:13   #4  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 6,635
good point!

@chros plz that guy is an insult on journalism.

comparing the generation performance by using 1 card that as an example. i don't even know anymore... is even not even aware of the low number of 2080 TI out there?
does he even realise that AMD did 100 % the same thing with navi.
RX 480 200-240
RX 5700 XT 400+ 96-100% performance increase for 100 % more money.

there is a reason the 2000 series didn't sell well that not competition from AMD by doing the same.
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd October 2020, 19:23   #5  |  Link
SamuriHL
Registered User
 
SamuriHL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 4,643
Because the price was ridiculous. LOL I still have no regrets about my 2070 or this 2080 laptop. However, I have irritation about this "launch" of 3080 series and the inability to find one. I'm only looking at the ASUS lineup at this point. Even if that means it'll be next year before I get one. Oh well.
__________________
HTPC: Windows 10, I9 9900k, RTX 2070 Founder's Edition, Pioneer Elite VSX-LX303, LG C8 65" OLED
SamuriHL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd October 2020, 19:35   #6  |  Link
NikosD
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 2,880
Quote:
Originally Posted by chros View Post
...by comparing top dies, he's not impressed
There was a reason that the marketing guy running nVidia, also known as leather-jacket-man, referred to 3080 as the flagship card of this generation and not 3090, although he presented them both at the same show from his kitchen.
He wanted to avoid such comparisons (performance per watt, performance per price etc) with 3090.
__________________
Win 10 x64 (19042.572) - Core i5-2400 - Radeon RX 470 (20.8.1)
HEVC decoding benchmarks
H.264 DXVA Benchmarks for all
NikosD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd October 2020, 19:43   #7  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 6,635
yes the 2000 series is over priced i claimed the same until AMD did the same then i was disarmed.

and why should you feel bad about buying the cheapest and fastest GPU you could at the time? there was no alternative except no GPU/laptop.

it this journalist even taking into account Vram price hike just blame solo on nvidia for price "increases" what about the loss of a microchip manufactures like global foundries and the rise of SSD and and smart phone needs. every one was going to TSMC and there was no way they ask for more too just like Vram?

and taking into account AMD did the same thing odd isn't it?
because the 2080 ti was 13% more expensive performance/dollar then the 1080 TI doesn't mean other cards where but by doing thsi you can't do a propaganda chart like this charts so you don'T do that.

that's what user care about: https://youtu.be/csSmiaR3RVE?t=1299
and the 3080 delivers here and if AMD will beat it or be in a similar range people will care about the RDNA 2 too. but until tehy are released i will not predict what will happen i don'T care about the shader count yet i don'T care about the memory interface yet.

and even AV1 decode isn't finished yet or do i needed to remind user here about the 970/980 hybrid garbage or the VP9 "decoder" in polaris.
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd October 2020, 19:54   #8  |  Link
SamuriHL
Registered User
 
SamuriHL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 4,643
Agreed on all that. I've been quite pleased with my 20x0 cards. But I'm looking forward to the raw speed bump that a 3080 will provide over my 2070 for both gaming and for madvr especially. But I can wait until nVidia decides to get their s*** together. LOL
__________________
HTPC: Windows 10, I9 9900k, RTX 2070 Founder's Edition, Pioneer Elite VSX-LX303, LG C8 65" OLED
SamuriHL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd October 2020, 20:14   #9  |  Link
el Filou
Registered User
 
el Filou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 662
Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
and even AV1 decode isn't finished yet
Do you mean on the GeForce, Radeon, or both? I've seen one review actually test the AV1 decode with Chrome and 8K YouTube, and Task Manager was showing 50% video decode with hardly any GPU 3D at all, so at least on the NVIDIA it's working.
__________________
HTPC: Windows 10 1909, MediaPortal 1, LAV Filters, ReClock, madVR. DVB-C TV, Panasonic GT60, 6.0 speakers Denon 2310, Core 2 Duo E7400, GeForce 1050 Ti
el Filou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th October 2020, 23:24   #10  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 6,635
so am i the only one that is pretty disappointed in zen 3?

i mean the 12 core looks ok and the 16 core too but 450 for an 8 core CPU i can easily get an 10 series i7 for 300, an 9 series i7 for 250 also an zen 2 3700x for 270 that's quite a difference in price i mean they compare then to the 3800x an CPU with a bad price performance ratio and even that CPU is available for 300. the 3900x cost around 400 so ehh well...

i mean they claim quite some performance uplift but i have my doubt they are aware of the current street prices...

this has a kinda a turing feeling with just similar price per performance.

looks like i end up with 2 zen 2 systems...
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th October 2020, 23:43   #11  |  Link
Asmodian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 3,986
If you are beating the competition you charge more. AMD wants average prices of their CPUs sold to go up and they finally have the performance lead to get away with it.

I was not expecting competitive prices and I was pleasantly surprised by the amount of IPC increase claimed, including the clock speed bump it could be pretty significant. I definitely want to see benchmarks and where most all core OCs top out.
__________________
madVR options explained
Asmodian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th October 2020, 23:50   #12  |  Link
SamuriHL
Registered User
 
SamuriHL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 4,643
I've been stuck in meetings all day so I haven't had a chance to catch up on Zen 3 news yet, but that's disappointing on price. I was considering a rebuild of my system while I wait for a 3080 to materialize, but not at those kinds of prices.
__________________
HTPC: Windows 10, I9 9900k, RTX 2070 Founder's Edition, Pioneer Elite VSX-LX303, LG C8 65" OLED
SamuriHL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th October 2020, 23:52   #13  |  Link
butterw2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 85
a 19% IPC increase over a 16 month period is nothing to scoff at. But if you are not overly concerned with performance (IN GAMES !), zen2 still looks like a good option.

Zen3 is pretty much a drop in replacement for zen2: same process (slightly improved boost freq), same total L3 cache, same IO-die. They are just changing the CCX architecture to 8 cores (was 2*4 cores).
butterw2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th October 2020, 00:00   #14  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 6,635
yes production cost clearly didn't increase the price.

edit: the clock speeds they have written down are pointless zen 2 is unable to reach these number without extrem overclocking boost clocks are simply pointless with AMD.

Last edited by huhn; 9th October 2020 at 00:03.
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th October 2020, 04:44   #15  |  Link
Manni
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 813
Definitely waiting for Rocket Lake here, especially if it meets its Q1 2021 delivery date (March). My position might be different because I need thunderbolt and a stable bios, but I don’t see anything at this stage that would make me change my plan if Rocket Lake delivers what I expect at a competitive price by April 2021. Nice to see AMD making that kind of progress though, but at that kind of price there is even less incentive for me to switch.
__________________
Win10 Pro x64 b2004
i7 3770K@4.0Ghz 16Gb@2.18Ghz EVGA GTX 1080 Ti SC2 11Gb@2GHz RGB Full 8bits 442.74
madVR/jRiver/MyMovies/CMC
Denon X8500H>madVR Envy Extreme>HD Fury Maestro>JVC RS2000

Last edited by Manni; 9th October 2020 at 06:46.
Manni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th October 2020, 06:07   #16  |  Link
NikosD
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 2,880
People buying 3090 with 1500 for no good reason and others buying Intel all these years with astronomical prices like Core i9 HEDT series which is a joke, are accusing AMD for the price of Zen 3.

So, you want to pay 10% to 20% more performance of 3090 vs 3080 with a price difference of 1500 vs 700 or you want to pay 2000$ for the two models of 18core HEDT Intel Core i9 7980XE/9980XE but you don't want to pay for better performance per price the Zen 3 processors.

Because they are AMD products.

Hilarious and very funny way to start your day reading your posts.
__________________
Win 10 x64 (19042.572) - Core i5-2400 - Radeon RX 470 (20.8.1)
HEVC decoding benchmarks
H.264 DXVA Benchmarks for all
NikosD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th October 2020, 13:07   #17  |  Link
el Filou
Registered User
 
el Filou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 662
Like many are saying, the biggest competitor to Zen 3 on release, with the prices that were announced, may not be Intel but Zen 2 itself. 5800X might not beat 3700X on performance/price.

It's interesting about HEDT, over here 9980XE can be found for 1109 eur (https://www.amazon.fr/Intel-i9-9980X...dp/B07JGCMQY8/), while 3960X is at 1409 eur.
I still think AMD should've released a 16-core Zen 2 Threadripper for people who need more PCIe lanes and/or higher memory bandwidth but not necessarily 24 cores.
__________________
HTPC: Windows 10 1909, MediaPortal 1, LAV Filters, ReClock, madVR. DVB-C TV, Panasonic GT60, 6.0 speakers Denon 2310, Core 2 Duo E7400, GeForce 1050 Ti
el Filou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th October 2020, 14:23   #18  |  Link
NikosD
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 2,880
Tom from MILD has a new video and he is like reading my comments.
He thinks Zen 3 is the new Sandybridge for AMD this time aka a fully dominant architecture over the rival.
Zen 3 is going to be faster on everything than Intel.
Also, as he says in the video no HEDT for Intel across all 2021.
Now, regarding RX 6000 benchmarks he also thinks that the Big Navi shown at the presentation will not be the fastest one, but the second.
More here (and regarding availability)
https://youtu.be/SE5eYTIwoT0
__________________
Win 10 x64 (19042.572) - Core i5-2400 - Radeon RX 470 (20.8.1)
HEVC decoding benchmarks
H.264 DXVA Benchmarks for all
NikosD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th October 2020, 16:34   #19  |  Link
NikosD
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 2,880
On the other hand a very respectful site like techpowerup.com says that AMD probably cherry-picked games for its presentation and the performance of Top Big Navi will be comparable to 2080 Ti level of performance.
Quote:
Quote:
We know this is a very coarse and unscientific way to compare AMD's numbers to ours, and AMD has probably cherry-picked games that are most optimized to its GPUs, but it lends plausibility to a theory that Big Navi may end up comparable to the RTX 2080 Ti, and trade blows with the upcoming RTX 3070, which NVIDIA claims outperforms the RTX 2080 Ti.
https://www.techpowerup.com/273150/a...omparable-gpus

The nVidiot tech journalist responsible for the above article is called "btarunr"
__________________
Win 10 x64 (19042.572) - Core i5-2400 - Radeon RX 470 (20.8.1)
HEVC decoding benchmarks
H.264 DXVA Benchmarks for all
NikosD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th October 2020, 18:44   #20  |  Link
videoh
Useful n00b
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,474
Quote:
Originally Posted by NikosD View Post
The nVidiot tech journalist responsible for the above article is called "btarunr"
Why do you need to toss around insults? Your technical arguments are not persuasive enough? Or you are just a jerk?
videoh is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:11.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.