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Old 1st October 2018, 08:41   #1041  |  Link
olduser217
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Originally Posted by TEB View Post
Yupp saw it, but infact it was a HEVC encoded output from a AV1 source (high bitrate) as far as i know..
Do you mean that the AV1 bitstream was actually transcoded to HEVC stream and then playback using the LG TV?
If this is the case, it seems like the purpose was to showcase the AV1 encoding/transcoding capability rather than decoding of AV1 on existing SOC hardware.

Last edited by olduser217; 1st October 2018 at 08:43.
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Old 1st October 2018, 08:47   #1042  |  Link
LigH
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@olduser217: I understood that the same way...
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Old 1st October 2018, 09:35   #1043  |  Link
marcomsousa
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Originally Posted by olduser217 View Post
Do you mean that the AV1 bitstream was actually transcoded to HEVC stream and then playback using the LG TV?
If this is the case, it seems like the purpose was to showcase the AV1 encoding/transcoding capability rather than decoding of AV1 on existing SOC hardware.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LigH View Post
@olduser217: I understood that the same way...
They are a software company. They have a software solution that permit encoding and transcoding to BIG companies.
So, a big company can (in 2019) store in AV1 format and transcoding to ANY format LIVE.
Or encoding from ANY format to AV1.
At this moment, they are changing their solution to be Public Cloud Server friendly. Changing to microservices architecture capable to scale any number of servers automatically.

PS: They don’t have anything magically, so encoding it’s still slow and expensive.
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Old 1st October 2018, 10:38   #1044  |  Link
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Originally Posted by marcomsousa View Post
They are a software company. They have a software solution that permit encoding and transcoding to BIG companies.
So, a big company can (in 2019) store in AV1 format and transcoding to ANY format LIVE.
Or encoding from ANY format to AV1.
At this moment, they are changing their solution to be Public Cloud Server friendly. Changing to microservices architecture capable to scale any number of servers automatically.

PS: They don’t have anything magically, soy encoding it’s still slow and expensive.
@marcomsousa @LigH
Thanks for the explanation.

So, for the exhibition, the AV1 bitstream (I heard during the demo, the AV1 source was from an USB thumbdrive which was plugged into the TV) was uploaded to their server and downloaded as HEVC bitstream, then playback from the TV which support HEVC decoding?
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Old 1st October 2018, 16:16   #1045  |  Link
hajj_3
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Video Dev Days 2018 videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bSsP0Wi46E - AV1: in the end, what got in?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytsRYKQc6kQ - rav1e: the best rust AV1 encoder
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhIgBdrKyNM - Dav1d: a fast new AV1 decoder

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Old 1st October 2018, 16:41   #1046  |  Link
marcomsousa
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Originally Posted by hajj_3 View Post
...
Thanks, just add a new dav1d video and labels

Google AOM
  • Chrome (Q4 2018)
  • WebRTC Integration (2019)
  • Android Q (Q3 2019)
  • SOC Hardware (2020)
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Old 1st October 2018, 17:17   #1047  |  Link
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And we know that the best HEVC encoders can outperform the best VP9 encoders by easily 20-30% for real-world scenarios, so a quote assuming VP9 and HEVC are equivalent just invalidates the AV1 comparison.

[..]

libvpx
I'm all for pointing out PR for what it is, but to equate "libvpx" with "best VP9 encoders" is inherently unfair as an argument against an actually-good VP9 encoder.
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Old 1st October 2018, 18:44   #1048  |  Link
LigH
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The media-autobuild_suite already allows using libdav1d in ffmpeg; unfortunately, from time to time, other libraries may break it, so consider to exclude what you don't really need...
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Old 1st October 2018, 20:24   #1049  |  Link
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I think the same could be said for HEVC too compared to AVC.

I remember the days when x265 was claiming 50% more compression for the same quality compared to x264, but you have to dig too much to find such a case, if any.
I have seen 50% reduction at very low bitrates and UHD resolutions. But for moderately grainy SD/HD content, x264 versus x265 is more like 30%.

Grain/noise parameterization and reconstruction is probably the single biggest next step in encoding performance, since random noise is intrinsically uncompressible.
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Old 1st October 2018, 20:37   #1050  |  Link
benwaggoner
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Originally Posted by Beelzebubu View Post
I'm all for pointing out PR for what it is, but to equate "libvpx" with "best VP9 encoders" is inherently unfair as an argument against an actually-good VP9 encoder.
I wasn't specifically calling out libvpx here, but I've not been able to get a real-world comparison of anything substantially better in terms of potential quality (not even quality @ perf).

I'm quite curious about what Eve can really do! But I've struggled to find samples for which source is available so I can try a real apples-to-apples. Their website seems to just have frames, not even any actual video examples.

If anyone can point me towards any, I'd really appreciate it, and could probably make some comparative HEVC encodes available.

For example, here's a recent Tears of Steel x265 test I did (1.5 Mbps average 4 Mbps peak, max 5 sec GOP, unlimited encoding time)

https://1drv.ms/v/s!AlvIQZWsyeO-kKplp2EQ8-Q4bCNVZw

It is pretty awesome that we can deliver a pretty good 1080p experience at VideoCD bitrates! 20x more pixels, and I think better per-pixel quality.

I've been doing 1, 1.5, and 2 Mbps ToS encodes using x265, x264, xvid, WMV VC-1, and VC-1 adaptive resolution Smooth Streaming. Hoping to kick off a VP9 set today, but it's been surprisingly hard to get good detailed parameter tuning documentation for libvpx.

I really hope libaom will get something as good as x265.readthedocs.io! That's really the gold standard of encoder documentation to date.
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Old 1st October 2018, 23:43   #1051  |  Link
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"The most important part of the change is that Google has separated the patent license from the copyright license. Now the copyright license on the software is a totally standard three-clause BSD license, which is clearly compatible with the GPL. The patent license, in turn, provides distributors with permission to exercise all the rights, and meet all the conditions, in the GPL, as required by GPLv2 section 7; and those permissions are consistent with the ones provided by the patent grant in GPLv3 section 11. All this means that developers distributing GPL-covered software can take advantage of the patent license without running afoul of the GPL's conditions, whether they're using GPLv2 or GPLv3."

Does it still apply to AV1?
Yes, it does.
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Old 2nd October 2018, 01:35   #1052  |  Link
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All the improvements in dav1d is fabulous. Up to 50fps for 8 bit 1080p with 4 threads AND NO ASM YET is pretty amazing.
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Old 2nd October 2018, 01:37   #1053  |  Link
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Introducing dav1d: a new AV1 decoder

http://www.jbkempf.com/blog/post/2018/Introducing-dav1d
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Old 2nd October 2018, 08:14   #1054  |  Link
LigH
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And wiiaboo + schmidthubert made ffmpeg build again. So build your favourite kind of ffmpeg with dav1d. — Sorry, too early, API may have changed, some exports are not found suddenly.



@benwaggoner: PM?
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Old 2nd October 2018, 16:14   #1055  |  Link
Adonisds
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Originally Posted by Nintendo Maniac 64 View Post
I just did some performance testing with the 1080p 30fps AV1 encode of the Gus Kenworthy & Tom Wallisch X Games Slopestyle GoPro Preview video in MPC-HC v1.8.1 x64 with its built-in LAVfilters; I originally tried the Halo video but I found the X Games video to be much more demanding (but also much more motion-sick inducing, especially when playing at slower than real-time).

With my 4c/8t Nehalem Xeon x3470 I was only seeing ~25% CPU utilization at maximum even though I was unable to play back the video in real-time (it was somewhere between 16fps and 20fps). Mathematically that should mean that it's only using 2 threads, but disabling SMT and setting my BIOS to only enable 2 cores resulted in noticably worse performance, yet setting the BIOS to enable 3 cores without SMT resulted in the same 16-20fps performance I was originally seeing yet at only ~67% CPU utilization.

At least with the LAVfilters bundled with MPC-HC v1.8.1 x64, it would seem that the AV1 decoder can only utilize 3 cores and no SMT, yet even then the 2 less loaded cores are only hitting around half of their according core's available utilization.


And for reference, the 720p 30fps AV1 encode of that same video played back without a hitch on my Xeon - heck it left enough headroom that I could turn on a bunch of motion interpolation which greatly helped alleviate the motion sickness I got from watching the 1080p AV1 encode playback at sub-20fps frame rates (it's times like this that I thank the devs over at Nintendo for making F-Zero X and F-Zero GX native 60fps games).



Now I'm a bit out-of-the-loop, but I couldn't help but notice that YouTube-DL was using the .MP4 extension for AV1 downloads - is that in fact correct behavior? (and no, I don't mean AVC1, otherwise my PC would have been playing back the videos easy-peasy).
How do you turn on motion interpolation?
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Old 2nd October 2018, 19:44   #1056  |  Link
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AV1 encoder project from Intel

https://itpeernetwork.intel.com/open...-visual-cloud/
Quote:
Next Gen CODECs

Streaming media is the foundation for visual cloud workloads. Our open source projects will also advance the next generation of CODECs, specifically Scalable Video Technology (SVT) for HEVC and AV1.

Additionally, Intel is contributing to the SVT-HEVC Encoder core to enable high performance, quality, and scalability of HEVC video encoding under a highly permissive BSD and patent license. This HEVC-compliant encoder library core achieves excellent density-quality tradeoffs and is highly optimized for Intel® Xeon® Scalable and Intel® Xeon® D processors.

We are also forming a new SVT-AV1 open source encoder project as an enhancement to the Alliance for Open Media (AOM) to provide a cleaner, easier to use codebase. Community support is critical to open source innovation, and Intel welcomes contributions to the SVT-AV1 project. Register for email updates at 01.org.

As video consumption and generation continues to grow, so will the number of industries that must deliver high-bandwidth, low-latency video at scale. Open source software is fundamental to meeting the demands, and Intel is committed to collaborating with industry leaders to grow the community.
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Old 3rd October 2018, 00:07   #1057  |  Link
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Originally Posted by hajj_3 View Post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhIgBdrKyNM - Dav1d: a fast new AV1 decoder
This is a very fast decoder.

Using just C with almost no ASM and no SIMD at all, they managed to be 60% faster than libaom v1.0.0.0 and capable of 1080p decoding of a 4Mbps clip at 50fps using 4 cores.

In the presentation they said that they are expecting the SIMD version to hit a 4x decoding acceleration, meaning 200 fps for 1080p using 4 cores.

That would be probably the biggest step up in software decoding SIMD acceleration.
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Old 3rd October 2018, 09:16   #1058  |  Link
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If someone could build and provide latest libaom and dav1d decoders in DirectShow filter form, I'm interested in opening a new thread for AV1 decoder's evaluation.

I have various CPUs from Core 2 Duo to Haswell, so I can follow the improvements in ASM, MultiThreading and SIMD acceleration for both AV1 decoders.

BTW, are there any other AV1 decoders ?

But I need them to be registered as DirectShow filters.
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Old 3rd October 2018, 09:23   #1059  |  Link
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Originally Posted by benwaggoner View Post
I have seen 50% reduction at very low bitrates and UHD resolutions. But for moderately grainy SD/HD content, x264 versus x265 is more like 30%.

Grain/noise parameterization and reconstruction is probably the single biggest next step in encoding performance, since random noise is intrinsically uncompressible.

I have a feeling that video standards are eventually going to have a similar come-to-jesus moment that graphic card makers faced when they were finally called out for totally ignoring minimum FPS. That led to some pretty big driver changes within a year, but video standards have a much longer lead time....
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Old 3rd October 2018, 09:54   #1060  |  Link
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...I did however notice that, out of the three cores being utilized on my Xeon x3470, one of them is pretty much fully pegged and the other two are about half utilization - this would then equal the ~25% utilization I'm seeing.

Now normally I would let this all go as simply a case of "not having fast enough single-threaded performance" and be done with it, but the fact that you and others were seeing over 60% utilization on your own 4c/8t CPUs (which implies it was balancing the load across more than 4 threads) makes me thing something still isn't quite right here - I mean, weaker single-threaded performance shouldn't result in fewer threads being utilized, and if anything you'd want it to be the opposite, no?
My preliminary results for LAV x64 0.72.0-15 and MPC-HC v1.8.2 using libaom v1.0.0-552 show me only ~75% CPU utilization of a 2C/4T Haswell Core i3-4170@3.7GHz, meaning that the current status of libaom decoder is an up to 3 threads SMT implementation.

The above situation leads to a ceiling in performance of course, meaning that a lot of 1080p AV1 samples out there, are simply not real-time decoded by libaom.

Probably even the no SIMD version of dav1d as it is right now, due to the 4 threads implementation IIRC, could do it better.

But generally speaking, "we need a bigger boat"
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