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Old 21st November 2015, 21:45   #13701  |  Link
tebasuna51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kukushka View Post
eac3to + Nero Audio Decoder (Nero 7) are dropping first aac frame on decoding. always. along with faad. ffmpeg & Nero AAC Decoder 1.5.1.0 are doing it correctly.
I agree with the Nero 7 behaviour but not with faad (14/06/2010 from RareWares) and even with NeroAacDec 1.5.1.0.
Code:
Encode/Decoder   Nero7   NeroDec  Faad  Qaac  ffmpeg
---------------  ------  -------  ----  ----  ------
2.0-nero.m4a      -        Ok      +33   Ok     Ok
5.1-nero.m4a      -        Ok      +33   Ok     Ok
2.0-qaac.aac      +22      -       +22   +44    +44
2.0-qaac.m4a      -        Ok      +22   Ok     Ok
5.1-qaac.aac     broken    -       +22   +44    +44
5.1-qaac.m4a      -        Ok      +22   Ok     Ok
2.0-qaac-ND.aac   -21      -       -21   Ok     Ok
2.0-qaac-ND.m4a   -        0       -21   Ok     Ok
5.1-qaac-ND.aac  broken    -       -21   Ok     Ok
5.1-qaac-ND.m4a   -        0       -21   Ok     Ok

ND  = qaac --no-delay parameter
-21 = first frame cutted
+x  = ms of silence delay added
0   = first frame silenced
-   = Not supported
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Old 21st November 2015, 22:33   #13702  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Music Fan View Post
Did you also try neroAacDec alone to see if the first aac frame is dropped ?
"Nero AAC Decoder 1.5.1.0" - this is neroAacDec and it's all good with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tebasuna51 View Post
I agree with the Nero 7 behaviour but not with faad (14/06/2010 from RareWares) and even with NeroAacDec 1.5.1.0.
the thing with faad is that it is broken even more, not only it drops the first frame, it also ignores initial m4a header that tells other decoders (that can work with m4a directly obviously) what to skip. and no silence is added by decoders (qaac --no-delay shows it clearly), it is coded in aac and then skipped or decoded with or without frame drop depending on container/decoder

tests are for 2.0

Code:
process-decoder\coder   nero            qaac default    qaac --no-delay
                        samples ms      samples ms      samples ms
m4a-faad                1600    33,33   1088    22,67   -1024   -21,33
m4a-ffmpeg              0       0       0       0       0       0
aac-eac3to&faad         1600    33,33   1088    22,67   -1024   -21,33
aac-ffmpeg              2624    54,67   2112    44      0       0
aac-mp4-faad            1600    33,33   1088    22,67   -1024   -21,33
aac-mp4-ffmpeg          2624    54,67   2112    44      0       0
aac-mkv-eac3to          1600    33,33   1088    22,67   -1024   -21,33
aac-mkv-ffmpeg          2624    54,67   2112    44      0       0
mkv w delay-eac3to      -1040   -21,67  -1024   -21,33
mkv w delay-ffmpeg      -448    -9,333  -960    -20
mkv-eac3to              -1472   -30,67  -1984   -41,33  -1024   -21,33
mkv-ffmpeg              -448    -9,333  -960    -20     0       0
ts-eac3to               1600    33,33   1088    22,67   -1024   -21,33
ts-ffmpeg               2624    54,67   2112    44      0       0
i omitted some identical results (like neroaacdec behavior = ffmpeg), they're mentioned in conclusions
m4a - initial encode
aac - demux from m4a with mp4muxer
aac-mp4 - remuxed back with mp4muxer, initial headers got stripped
aac-mkv - mkvtoolnix 8.5.2 was used
mkv w delay - m4a to mkv with additional track - container delays, 20ms for default qaac, 9ms for nero
ts - muxed from m4a with tsmuxer 1.10.6
versions:
eac3to 3.30, nerodec 1.5.1.0, neroenc 1.5.4.0, qaac 2.55-7.10.5.0, ffmpeg N-76417-gee20354, faad 373248B
conclusions:
encoders: nero - 2624 samples initial delay, qaac - 2112 by default
faad don't give a damn about m4a header
faad & eac3to both kill first frame (1024samples)
nero & ffmpeg (and foobar) -ok in m4a
mkv muxing from m4a tries to compensate coder delays by killing a few frames. and then adding a delay. or not adding when it's a single track which leads to -960 samples with qaac when properly decoded or almost 2k with nero7 frame drop
foobar is using ffmpeg engine so results are identical
ffmpeg (with foobar) don't count mkv delays
neroaacdec & ffmpeg results are identical too

Last edited by kukushka; 21st November 2015 at 23:41.
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Old 22nd November 2015, 03:42   #13703  |  Link
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@kukushka
Maybe we can open a new thread to speak about AAC and muxer/demuxer's (Mp4Muxer/Mp4Box/MkvToolnix/tsMuxeR), but the relevant questions for this thread are clear:

- The directshow Nero 7 decoder, used by eac3to to decode .aac, cut the first 1024 samples (21,333 ms in 48 KHz) in 2.0 and is broken for 5.1.
Take in mind the problem.
EDIT: after more test the cuts are unpredictables (from 0 to 54 ms)

- The encoder NeroAacEnc.exe, user by eac3to to encode .m4a, put the correct delay to compensate and can be decoded without problems with NeroAacDec, Qaac or ffmpeg. No problem with it.

- eac3to works fine extracting AAC from MKV/TS/M2TS containers, I obtain the same aac than I muxed previously.
Then, to avoid problems, you can use eac3to to extract and Qaac or ffmpeg to decode (or LWLibavAudioSource inside AviSynth).
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Last edited by tebasuna51; 9th January 2016 at 13:09.
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Old 22nd November 2015, 12:38   #13704  |  Link
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Hi, folks. I purchase bluray and get this errors with eac3to:

Code:
M2TS, 1 video track, 5 audio tracks, 6 subtitle tracks, 1:49:25, 28.878p
1: Chapters, 12 chapters
2: h264/AVC, 1080p24 /1.001 (16:9)
3: DTS Master Audio, Spanish, 5.1 channels, 16 bits, 48kHz
   (core: DTS, 5.1 channels, 768kbps, 48kHz)
4: DTS Master Audio, Spanish, 5.1 channels, 16 bits, 48kHz
   (core: DTS, 5.1 channels, 768kbps, 48kHz)
5: DTS Master Audio, Spanish, 5.1 channels, 16 bits, 48kHz
   (core: DTS, 5.1 channels, 768kbps, 48kHz)
6: DTS Master Audio, Spanish, 5.1 channels, 16 bits, 48kHz
   (core: DTS, 5.1 channels, 768kbps, 48kHz)
7: DTS Master Audio, Spanish, 5.1 channels, 16 bits, 48kHz
   (core: DTS, 5.1 channels, 768kbps, 48kHz)
8: Subtitle (PGS)
9: Subtitle (PGS)
10: Subtitle (PGS)
11: Subtitle (PGS)
12: Subtitle (PGS)
13: Subtitle (PGS)
[a03] Extracting audio track number 3...
[a03] Decoding with libDcaDec DTS Decoder...
[a03] libDcaDec reported the warning "XLL output not lossless".  <WARNING>
[a03] Writing WAV...
[a03] Creating file "E:\Bluray\DBZ BOG EXTENDED\_3spa.wav"...
[a03] Skipping identical DTS frames (seamless branching)...
[a03] libDcaDec output changed from 6 channels, 48kHz to 2 channels, 48kHz.  <ERROR>
Aborted at file position 21188608.  <ERROR>
I attempt decoding using Arcsoft but issue report is the same.

Command line: "eac3to.exe" "E:\Bluray\DBZ BOG EXTENDED\" 1) 3: "E:\Bluray\DBZ BOG EXTENDED\_3spa.wav" -progressnumbers

EDIT: If I use m2ts directly on eac3to, work fine. I think that is one problem of playlist.

EDIT2: I ever get audio 2 channels with mt2s, but not 5.1.
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Last edited by Overdrive80; 22nd November 2015 at 13:36.
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Old 22nd November 2015, 13:57   #13705  |  Link
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did you check the playlist file of how many .m2ts files it consists (the file itself, not what eac3to displays)? perhaps the main .m2ts file is preceeded by some other small .m2ts file which has a 5.1 channel configuration.
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Old 22nd November 2015, 14:23   #13706  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderbolt8 View Post
did you check the playlist file of how many .m2ts files it consists (the file itself, not what eac3to displays)? perhaps the main .m2ts file is preceeded by some other small .m2ts file which has a 5.1 channel configuration.
Yes, its composed of two m2ts (0003.mt2s+0000.m2ts), however 0003.m2ts is short video of presentation of distribution company, nothing of interest.

I can extract audio track in dtshd (1,3 gb), but is impossible transcoding, ever get error.
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Last edited by Overdrive80; 22nd November 2015 at 14:37.
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Old 22nd November 2015, 15:13   #13707  |  Link
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then just skip that one and only work with the main movie file.
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Old 22nd November 2015, 15:29   #13708  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderbolt8 View Post
then just skip that one and only work with the main movie file.
The problem is that main movie info 2 channels from m2ts, but dtshd extracted info 6 channels, and I can not decoding audio:

Code:
General
Nombre completo                          : E:\Bluray\DBZ BOG EXTENDED\00000.mpls_3spa.dtshd
Formato                                  : DTS
Formato/Info                             : Digital Theater Systems
Formato del perfil                       : MA / Core
Tamaño del archivo                       : 1,23GIB
Modo de tasa de bits                     : Variable

Audio
Formato                                  : DTS
Formato/Info                             : Digital Theater Systems
Formato del perfil                       : MA / Core
Format_Settings_Mode                     : 16
Ajustes del formato, Endianness          : Big
Tipo de tasa de bits                     : Variable
Tasa de bits                             : Desconocido / 768Kbps
Canal(es)                                : 6canales
Posiciones del canal                     : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Velocidad de muestreo                    : 48,0KHz
BitDepth/String                          : 16bits
Compression_Mode/String                  :  / Lossy
From m2ts:

Code:
General
ID                                       : 0 (0x0)
Nombre completo                          : E:\Bluray\DBZ BOG EXTENDED\BDMV\STREAM\00000.m2ts
Formato                                  : BDAV
Formato/Info                             : Blu-ray Video
Tamaño del archivo                       : 21,8GIB
Duración                                 : 1h 49min.
Modo de tasa de bits                     : Variable
Tasa de bits total                       : 28,6Mbps
Tasa de bits máxima                      : 48,0Mbps

Video
ID                                       : 4113 (0x1011)
ID Menú                                  : 1 (0x1)
Formato                                  : AVC
Formato/Info                             : Advanced Video Codec
Formato del perfil                       : High@L4.1
Ajustes del formato, CABAC               : Si
Ajustes del formato, RefFrames           : 4marcos
ID Códec                                 : 27
Duración                                 : 1h 49min.
Tipo de tasa de bits                     : Variable
Tasa de bits máxima                      : 35,0Mbps
Ancho                                    : 1 920pixeles
Alto                                     : 1 080pixeles
Relación de aspecto                      : 16:9
Velocidad de cuadro                      : 23,976fps
Estándar                                 : NTSC
ColorSpace                               : YUV
ChromaSubsampling                        : 4:2:0
BitDepth/String                          : 8bits
Tipo de exploración                      : Progresivo
colour_range                             : Limited
colour_primaries                         : BT.709
transfer_characteristics                 : BT.709
matrix_coefficients                      : BT.709

Audio #1
ID                                       : 4352 (0x1100)
ID Menú                                  : 1 (0x1)
Formato                                  : DTS
Formato/Info                             : Digital Theater Systems
Formato del perfil                       : MA / Core
Format_Settings_Mode                     : 16
Ajustes del formato, Endianness          : Big
Modo Muxing                              : Stream extension
ID Códec                                 : 134
Duración                                 : 1h 49min.
Tipo de tasa de bits                     : Variable
Tasa de bits                             : Desconocido / 1 509Kbps
Canal(es)                                : 2canales
Posiciones del canal                     : Front: L R
Velocidad de muestreo                    : 48,0KHz
BitDepth/String                          : 16bits
Compression_Mode/String                  :  / Lossy
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Old 22nd November 2015, 15:34   #13709  |  Link
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Over the last few months I've been backing-up all my multi-channel (DVD-A, Blu-Ray Audio and DTS-CD) albums to single multi-channel flac files complete with a cue file.

All had been going very well up-until this morning, when I tried to back-up my 'Don Henley - End Of The Innocence' DTS-CD. After some investigation I've determined that the problem lies with the disc's very first track, which has been encoded using 6.1 DTS-ES audio, instead of regular 5.1 DTS audio.

So far I've managed to back-up the first track to a (52.6MB) dts-es.wav file. And I've also managed to extract the elementary (46.0MB) dts-es.dts stream - but now I'm stumped

Ideally what I'd like to do is create a 5.1 channel flac file from the 6.1 channel dts-es source but sadly neither LameXP or UsEac3to (with eac3to v3.31) are able to do this.

Does anyone have any ideas?

EDIT: Here's a link to a 5 second DTS-ES sample
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Last edited by SeeMoreDigital; 22nd November 2015 at 17:54.
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Old 22nd November 2015, 16:21   #13710  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Overdrive80 View Post
The problem is that main movie info 2 channels from m2ts, but dtshd extracted info 6 channels, and I can not decoding audio:

Code:
General
Nombre completo                          : E:\Bluray\DBZ BOG EXTENDED\00000.mpls_3spa.dtshd
Formato                                  : DTS
Formato/Info                             : Digital Theater Systems
Formato del perfil                       : MA / Core
Tamaño del archivo                       : 1,23GIB
Modo de tasa de bits                     : Variable

Audio
Formato                                  : DTS
Formato/Info                             : Digital Theater Systems
Formato del perfil                       : MA / Core
Format_Settings_Mode                     : 16
Ajustes del formato, Endianness          : Big
Tipo de tasa de bits                     : Variable
Tasa de bits                             : Desconocido / 768Kbps
Canal(es)                                : 6canales
Posiciones del canal                     : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Velocidad de muestreo                    : 48,0KHz
BitDepth/String                          : 16bits
Compression_Mode/String                  :  / Lossy
From m2ts:

Code:
General
ID                                       : 0 (0x0)
Nombre completo                          : E:\Bluray\DBZ BOG EXTENDED\BDMV\STREAM\00000.m2ts
Formato                                  : BDAV
Formato/Info                             : Blu-ray Video
Tamaño del archivo                       : 21,8GIB
Duración                                 : 1h 49min.
Modo de tasa de bits                     : Variable
Tasa de bits total                       : 28,6Mbps
Tasa de bits máxima                      : 48,0Mbps

Video
ID                                       : 4113 (0x1011)
ID Menú                                  : 1 (0x1)
Formato                                  : AVC
Formato/Info                             : Advanced Video Codec
Formato del perfil                       : High@L4.1
Ajustes del formato, CABAC               : Si
Ajustes del formato, RefFrames           : 4marcos
ID Códec                                 : 27
Duración                                 : 1h 49min.
Tipo de tasa de bits                     : Variable
Tasa de bits máxima                      : 35,0Mbps
Ancho                                    : 1 920pixeles
Alto                                     : 1 080pixeles
Relación de aspecto                      : 16:9
Velocidad de cuadro                      : 23,976fps
Estándar                                 : NTSC
ColorSpace                               : YUV
ChromaSubsampling                        : 4:2:0
BitDepth/String                          : 8bits
Tipo de exploración                      : Progresivo
colour_range                             : Limited
colour_primaries                         : BT.709
transfer_characteristics                 : BT.709
matrix_coefficients                      : BT.709

Audio #1
ID                                       : 4352 (0x1100)
ID Menú                                  : 1 (0x1)
Formato                                  : DTS
Formato/Info                             : Digital Theater Systems
Formato del perfil                       : MA / Core
Format_Settings_Mode                     : 16
Ajustes del formato, Endianness          : Big
Modo Muxing                              : Stream extension
ID Códec                                 : 134
Duración                                 : 1h 49min.
Tipo de tasa de bits                     : Variable
Tasa de bits                             : Desconocido / 1 509Kbps
Canal(es)                                : 2canales
Posiciones del canal                     : Front: L R
Velocidad de muestreo                    : 48,0KHz
BitDepth/String                          : 16bits
Compression_Mode/String                  :  / Lossy
did you really use the 00000.m2ts file to extract the audio from and not the .mpls file? because according to the file name of your .dtshd track this is at least what is indicated here.
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Old 22nd November 2015, 16:57   #13711  |  Link
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Yes, I used playlist and mt2s. From playlist can only extract dts files, with m2ts can extract and transcoding but I never get audio 5.1 only 2.0. Is posible that this company had hack playlist for showing false dts 5.1?
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Old 22nd November 2015, 17:23   #13712  |  Link
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Where is it showing false information?

The first m3ts contains 5.1 audio, the second 2.0. If you extract the playlist the header at the beginning will come from the first file and show as 5.1. If you only extract from the second m2ts it will always show as 2.0, because that is what is in the file.

There is no 5.1 to decode, unless you like the intro in the first m2ts enough that you'd like to keep it.

Your options are to ditch the intro, or downmix the sound from it to stereo and prepend it to the audio from the second m2ts file.
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Old 22nd November 2015, 17:45   #13713  |  Link
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And can not it done intentionally?? Company sold product like DTS-MA 5.1: http://www.amazon.es/Dragon-Battle-E...VR19TT8QQ27FWS (Pre-sold that I got)

I am refering to false info to:
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Last edited by Overdrive80; 22nd November 2015 at 17:48.
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Old 22nd November 2015, 18:37   #13714  |  Link
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in that case you could try to contact the company and tell them about it & complain, get a refund etc.
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Old 22nd November 2015, 20:12   #13715  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeeMoreDigital View Post
Ideally what I'd like to do is create a 5.1 channel flac file from the 6.1 channel dts-es source but sadly neither LameXP or UsEac3to (with eac3to v3.31) are able to do this.
Without problem here using your sample and:

%_.flac -down6

Quote:
eac3to v3.31
command line: "D:\Programa\eac3to\eac3to.exe" "D:\tmp\5 sec DTS-ES elementary stream sample.dts" "D:\tmp\5 sec DTS-ES elementary stream sample.dts_.flac" -down6 -progressnumbers -log="D:\Programa\eac3to\UsEac3to\UsEac3To.log"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DTS-ES, 6.1 channels, 0:00:05, 1235kbps, 44.1kHz
Decoding with libDcaDec DTS Decoder...
Mixing surround channels...
Encoding FLAC with libFlac...
Creating file "D:\tmp\5 sec DTS-ES elementary stream sample.dts_.flac"...
eac3to processing took 1 second.
Done.
Quote:
FLAC, 5.1 channels, 0:00:05, 24 bits, 3530kbps, 44.1kHz
Also ok to wav. I don't know how you obtain your "5 sec DTS-ES in WAV sample.wav"
Quote:
WAV, 2.0 channels, 0:00:05, 16 bits, 1411kbps, 44.1kHz
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Old 22nd November 2015, 20:50   #13716  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tebasuna51 View Post
Without problem here using your sample and:
%_.flac -down6
I actually tried these command line parameters with UsEac3To but I get this warning: -

Code:
eac3to v3.31
command line: "C:\UsEac3to118\eac3to.exe"  "C:\Users\SeeMoreDigital\Desktop\The End of the Innocence.dts" "C:\Users\SeeMoreDigital\Desktop\The End of the Innocence.dts_.flac" -down6 -progressnumbers -log="C:\UsEac3to118\UsEac3To.log"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DTS-ES, 6.1 channels, 0:05:13, 1235kbps, 44.1kHz
Decoding with libDcaDec DTS Decoder...
Mixing surround channels...
Encoding FLAC with libFlac...
Creating file "C:\Users\SeeMoreDigital\Desktop\The End of the Innocence.dts_.flac"...
libDcaDec reported the warning "Failed to parse core extension".  <WARNING>
libDcaDec output changed from 7 channels, 44kHz to 6 channels, 44kHz.  <ERROR>
Aborted at file position 1310720.  <ERROR>
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Old 22nd November 2015, 22:57   #13717  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeeMoreDigital View Post
libDcaDec output changed from 7 channels, 44kHz to 6 channels, 44kHz. <ERROR>
Aborted at file position 1310720. <ERROR>
Yep, seems the problem you say: "the problem lies with the disc's very first track, which has been encoded using 6.1 DTS-ES audio, instead of regular 5.1"

Then you need split your dts in 2 parts, only the first one need the -down6

eac3to 1.dts 1.wav -down6
eac3to 2.dts 2.wav

After you can concatenate the 2 wav's:

sox 1.wav 2.wav full.wav

And encode to flac:

eac3to full.wav full.flac

The problem now is split the dts. Like "Aborted at file position 1310720", maybe you can upload me 2MB and I can say you how split the dts:

eac3to full.dts begin.dts -2mb
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Old 22nd November 2015, 23:24   #13718  |  Link
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Originally Posted by tebasuna51 View Post
Yep, seems the problem you say: "the problem lies with the disc's very first track, which has been encoded using 6.1 DTS-ES audio, instead of regular 5.1"

maybe you can upload me 2MB and I can say you how split the dts...
Many thanks for looking into this. You're right the 5 second sample encodes fine but I've just cut off a 10 second sample which does not.

Here's a link to a 10 second DTS-ES sample. And another to the full dts-es file.


Cheers
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Old 23rd November 2015, 02:08   #13719  |  Link
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Is not so easy, the dts is corrupt and there are 37 frames along the full dts (13460 frames) with the BC channel unrecoverable.

eac3to crash decoding with dcadec and Arcsoft. With libav produce 346 WARNINGS and the decoded wav is useless.

I have succes with BeHappy decoding the dts to wav 6.1 with:
LWLibavAudioSource("D:\tmp\input.dts", stream_index=0,cache=false)
than use dcadec also. Here I see the 37 broken frames decoded as silence.

Using Foobar2000 I get a wav 5.1 with the BC channel already mixed in BL-BR. Sound fine for me: https://www.sendspace.com/file/lw3fl1
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Last edited by tebasuna51; 23rd November 2015 at 02:12.
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Old 23rd November 2015, 10:32   #13720  |  Link
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@SeeMoreDigital

Is not so easy, the dts is corrupt and there are 37 frames along the full dts (13460 frames) with the BC channel unrecoverable.
Thank-you so much for doing this.

So the actual dts-es elementary stream is at fault. Do you think this could this have happened when it was extracted from the .wav container using DTSParser v2. Or somewhere else?

Thanks again
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