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Old 23rd September 2017, 08:27   #45881  |  Link
Siso
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Originally Posted by AngelGraves13 View Post
I gave up on xysubfilter and use the internal MPC HC subtitle renderer. Haven't had an issue since.
Same here.
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Old 23rd September 2017, 10:34   #45882  |  Link
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Thank you to everyone discussing my question, I appreciate the information and everyone's input. The TV is in fact a Panasonic Plasma (TX-P65VT60E) and I suppose it can handle RGB appropriately considering there are RGB specific options (for dynamic range) for it. There are no settings being enabled or disabled (hue, colour, or otherwise) regardless of signal, with the exception of Pure Direct being forced to disabled when the signal sent is 4:2:2.

I suppose I should be sending RGB signal since there are no clarifications or anything mentioning YCbCr 4:4:4 on the TV's panel options and manual?

Two final questions:

NVIDIA's control panel can sent 4:2:2 on 12-bit (the TV supposedly can handle 12-bit/Deep Colour) but 4:4:4/RGB on 8-bit only. So when I use 4:4:4/RGB are my settings eligible for madVR's "10 bit (or Higher)" setting or should I stick with "8 bit"?

I am also using ffdshow (for SVP), besides changing the Primary output colour space from NV12 to YV12 for madVR, is there anything else I should change to ensure that ffdshow is not meddling with anything else?

Thank you in advance.
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Old 23rd September 2017, 11:24   #45883  |  Link
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Originally Posted by steakhutzeee View Post
So everyone is experiencing this bug of subs not showed in the black bars with xysubfilter? You solved using ISR?
Using Kodi and its video rules I use xysubfilter for material filling the screen (1.33, 1.78 and 1.85) and vsfilter for 2.35 and 2.40 movies.

It helps that I tend to have movies in HD and SD material is mainly 4:3.
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Old 23rd September 2017, 14:00   #45884  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Fabulist View Post
NVIDIA's control panel can sent 4:2:2 on 12-bit (the TV supposedly can handle 12-bit/Deep Colour) but 4:4:4/RGB on 8-bit only. So when I use 4:4:4/RGB are my settings eligible for madVR's "10 bit (or Higher)" setting or should I stick with "8 bit"?
Stick with 8-bit, the GPU will do a second dithering step to go from 10 bit to 8 bit. It is better to have madVR do it in one step.
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Old 23rd September 2017, 14:43   #45885  |  Link
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Originally Posted by AngelGraves13 View Post
I gave up on xysubfilter and use the internal MPC HC subtitle renderer. Haven't had an issue since.
As MPC-HC project is probably at it's end can I recommend PotPlayer which has excellent settings for rendering lovely subtitles.
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Old 23rd September 2017, 14:59   #45886  |  Link
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Originally Posted by varekai View Post
As MPC-HC project is probably at it's end can I recommend PotPlayer which has excellent settings for rendering lovely subtitles.
Mpc-be is active, potplayer is just a big complicated player...
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Old 23rd September 2017, 15:11   #45887  |  Link
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Originally Posted by varekai View Post
As MPC-HC project is probably at it's end can I recommend PotPlayer which has excellent settings for rendering lovely subtitles.
Didn't people pick up on it almost immediately or have I missed something? Also, it's ok to have a player that's older than a week or a month
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Old 23rd September 2017, 16:00   #45888  |  Link
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@Fabulist : also, stick with RGB Full.
YCbCr 4:4:4 can also use Pure Direct on the TX-*T60, but it uses limited range and the GPU is doing the conversion, so RGB Full is better.
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Old 23rd September 2017, 16:33   #45889  |  Link
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One last post regarding HDR 4K60p RGB 8bits:

It turns out I was wrong and Asmodian was right, my display (a JVC RS500/X7000) is unable to display HDR 4K60p in 8bits.

When I tested this with the UB900, the JVC reported HDR in its info screen and the picture looked correct, so I assumed it was working, but I did more checks today and it looks like when playing 4K60p content in RGB the UB900 is sending SDR Rec-709, not HDR BT2020 in 8bits. I assume this is because the display is unable to display HDR 4K60p in 8bits.

So it seems that the GPU, unlike the UB900, is trying to send HDR 4K60p in RGB 8bits, which results in a corrupted (magenta) screen.

The only way to send 4K60p in HDR from the 1080 Ti seems to be YCC 4:2:0 or 4:2:2 12bits, which of course is of little interest with MadVR.

YCC 4:4:4 12bits remains the best setting on the UB900, as it automatically reverts to 4:2:2 12bits with 4K60p content.

Re the HTPC, I'll stay with RGB Full 12bits, as this works fine at 23p, 24p, 25p and 30p which are all the rates I need to use to playback commercial video content (bluray and PAL/NTSC DVDs) with the best possible quality using MadVR. When we can rip our UHD Blurays, which do have some 4K60p content, I'll look at this again.

For HDR in 4K60p (say for demos or games), I guess YCC 4:2:0/4:2:2 remains an option.
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Last edited by Manni; 23rd September 2017 at 17:08.
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Old 23rd September 2017, 16:41   #45890  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Manni View Post
So it seems that the GPU, unlike the UB900, is trying to send HDR 4K60p in RGB 8bits, which results in a corrupted (magenta) screen.
That reminds me, have you tried the very latest NVidia driver that came out two days ago? I noticed something interesting in the list of fixes:

Quote:
HDR TV/displays have distorted colors after changing resolution in Windows Control Panel
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Old 23rd September 2017, 16:51   #45891  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siso View Post
Mpc-be is active, potplayer is just a big complicated player...
Nah... not complicated, been using it for years.

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Originally Posted by YxP View Post
Didn't people pick up on it almost immediately or have I missed something? Also, it's ok to have a player that's older than a week or a month
Didn't know someone continued the project, you got any links to that?
Yeah, I agree, you don't necessarily have to update, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"?
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Old 23rd September 2017, 17:10   #45892  |  Link
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Originally Posted by e-t172 View Post
That reminds me, have you tried the very latest NVidia driver that came out two days ago? I noticed something interesting in the list of fixes:
Yes I tried it on release day and it produces the same result (I reported this a few posts back).

Looks like 4K60p8bits RGB is not a valid HDR mode, and the GPU should not allow it instead of forcing it.

Shame nVidia doesn't offer the option to go from HDR 4K60p 4:4:4 12bits to 4:2:2 instead of reducing the bit depth from 12 to 8 (even in YCC), that's what the UB900 does to prevent banding and it works great (of course that's not possible with RGB).
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Old 23rd September 2017, 18:28   #45893  |  Link
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Originally Posted by varekai View Post
As MPC-HC project is probably at it's end can I recommend PotPlayer which has excellent settings for rendering lovely subtitles.
It's more actively in development now than it had been for years. I guess it just needed some fresh people to work on it.

a lot of work has gone into separating components for easy updating just in case it does fall out of development.

Tried potplayer, but didn't really like it too much. MPC BE can't keep sync with video.
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Old 23rd September 2017, 18:50   #45894  |  Link
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Originally Posted by AngelGraves13 View Post
It's more actively in development now than it had been for years. I guess it just needed some fresh people to work on it.
a lot of work has gone into separating components for easy updating just in case it does fall out of development.
Tried potplayer, but didn't really like it too much. MPC BE can't keep sync with video.
I can't find any news on MPC-HC other than this:
https://mpc-hc.org/2017/07/16/1.7.13...-and-farewell/
As this is a madVR thread maybe this is a bit of topic.
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Old 23rd September 2017, 18:58   #45895  |  Link
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as you understand when the GPU goes to the limit?
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Old 23rd September 2017, 19:33   #45896  |  Link
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I see, thank you for your time.

Does anyone know if I should change anything else in ffdshow to minimize its effect if any?

Quote:
Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
@Fabulist : also, stick with RGB Full.
YCbCr 4:4:4 can also use Pure Direct on the TX-*T60, but it uses limited range and the GPU is doing the conversion, so RGB Full is better.
Do you mean I should sent RGB Full signal from NVIDIA's control panel or from both NVIDIA and madVR?

I am having an inconsistency with RGB where if madVR and NVIDIA are sending a "Limited" signal range. I have to set the TV to "Full" in the RGB settings to actually get "Limited".

EDIT: el Filou sending "Full" range from either NVIDIA's control panel or madVR will result in increased darkness in dark areas and the resulting range does not feel like Limited. Also, setting the TV's RGB settings again to "Normal" instead of "Full" will get the image even darker. Am I doing something wrong/missing something?

Last edited by Fabulist; 23rd September 2017 at 19:43.
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Old 23rd September 2017, 19:47   #45897  |  Link
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It should be like this:
  1. TV Full, NVIDIA Full, madVR Full: best quality + consistency of brightness levels between video and Windows apps
  2. TV Limited, NVIDIA Limited, madVR Full: use if your TV doesn't support full range or if some component has a problem with it. Consistency of levels between video and Windows apps, but more quality loss as video range is downconverted by GPU for output
  3. TV Limited, NVIDIA Full, madVR Limited: same but less quality loss as the GPU doesn't touch madVR output, but dark and white shades will be clipped in Windows apps. Use only if your TV doesn't support full range and if you're only using the HTPC for video and nothing else
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Old 23rd September 2017, 19:54   #45898  |  Link
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Originally Posted by varekai View Post
I can't find any news on MPC-HC other than this:
https://mpc-hc.org/2017/07/16/1.7.13...-and-farewell/
As this is a madVR thread maybe this is a bit of topic.
https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.p...98#post1812598

MPC HC Forum on this site, in case you didn't find it before...

And of course, Nightly builds...

https://nightly.mpc-hc.org/
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Old 23rd September 2017, 20:39   #45899  |  Link
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Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
It should be like this:
  1. TV Full, NVIDIA Full, madVR Full: best quality + consistency of brightness levels between video and Windows apps
  2. TV Limited, NVIDIA Limited, madVR Full: use if your TV doesn't support full range or if some component has a problem with it. Consistency of levels between video and Windows apps, but more quality loss as video range is downconverted by GPU for output
  3. TV Limited, NVIDIA Full, madVR Limited: same but less quality loss as the GPU doesn't touch madVR output, but dark and white shades will be clipped in Windows apps. Use only if your TV doesn't support full range and if you're only using the HTPC for video and nothing else
you missconfusoin about TV FULL and Nvidia FULL ..

You need to understand it is also for PS3 and PS4 and XBOX 360/One.

If you put TV Full which is Low on LG at least same for samsung my guess, and Nvidia Full , you will have crashed dark. why ? because the TV is doing 0 -255 and when Nvidia also doing that it is crashing the black. you will crash you black if you go LOW and FULL on PS4 and Also PS3 ..

You need to choose one, preferably choosing LOW on the TV and on everything else Limited or AUTO , because then when changing between HDR or such the signal will always stay with the TV and the program won't mess it up randomly .


So last words is to use TV Low/Full , Nvidia Auto/Limited , Madvr 0-255 . for me it works perfect, the annoying brightness that on 16-235 is not visible, you can see all the bar between 17-25
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Old 23rd September 2017, 20:39   #45900  |  Link
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Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
It should be like this:
  1. TV Full, NVIDIA Full, madVR Full: best quality + consistency of brightness levels between video and Windows apps
  2. TV Limited, NVIDIA Limited, madVR Full: use if your TV doesn't support full range or if some component has a problem with it. Consistency of levels between video and Windows apps, but more quality loss as video range is downconverted by GPU for output
  3. TV Limited, NVIDIA Full, madVR Limited: same but less quality loss as the GPU doesn't touch madVR output, but dark and white shades will be clipped in Windows apps. Use only if your TV doesn't support full range and if you're only using the HTPC for video and nothing else
The TV is being exclusively used for video/movies and absolutely nothing else.

However, none of the following work:

TV Full, NVIDIA Full, madVR Full: Extremely dark, like "Full" is being applied 3 times.
TV Limited, NVIDIA Limited, madVR Full: Looks like "Full" and not "Limited" in movies.
TV Limited, NVIDIA Full, madVR Limited: Looks too dark, like "Full is being applied 2 times.

The only one working is:

TV Limited, NVIDIA Limited, madVR Limited

Additionally, as before, for some reason the TV needs to be set to "Full" to provide a "Limited" range, and "Normal" provides a darker image - this applies in all cases.

I do not really understand what is wrong.
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