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Old 19th January 2018, 15:51   #48501  |  Link
el Filou
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Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post
At a cost for sure.
What is the cost supposed to be visually?
If you disable that performance optimisation option, you are in effect supersampling chroma when you're displaying 4K on 1080, which I don't think is giving a big quality boost. Am I missing something else there?
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Old 19th January 2018, 17:02   #48502  |  Link
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Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
What is the cost supposed to be visually?
If you disable that performance optimisation option, you are in effect supersampling chroma when you're displaying 4K on 1080, which I don't think is giving a big quality boost. Am I missing something else there?
Honestly not sure. I was going by some of the earlier comments which appear to be misplaced. 4K video is new to me so I do not claim to be any kind of expert on this one. That's a setting that was recommended to me back when I was having massive issues getting 4K downscaling to work. So I can't compare with that option unchecked to see with my own eyes if there's any quality difference.
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Old 19th January 2018, 18:02   #48503  |  Link
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I am not sure it is actually worse quality. When watching 4K on a 1440p screen it is more complex but for 4K on 1080p this option seems good.

With 4K on 1080p the luma is downscaled to match the chroma and then the image is converted to RGB. This way 2/3 of the image data was not scaled at all!

With 4K on 1440p the luma is downscaled to 1440p and the chroma is upscaled to 1440p, then the image is converted to RGB.
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Old 19th January 2018, 19:54   #48504  |  Link
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I've not seen this option doing any harm and it saves a ton of performance.
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Old 19th January 2018, 23:43   #48505  |  Link
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It's so relaxing to just not bother with bitstreaming shit and just let the audio fix itself.
To what are you referring to? Still x86 Reclock?
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Old 20th January 2018, 00:11   #48506  |  Link
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Probably using lav to decode instead of bitstreaming.
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Old 20th January 2018, 00:26   #48507  |  Link
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Probably using lav to decode instead of bitstreaming.
If that was the case, it wouldn't make sense as if you don't bitstream you'd lose Atmos and DTS:X. It was an option before immersive sound, it's not anymore (unless, of course, you don't care about sound quality).
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Old 20th January 2018, 02:31   #48508  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Manni View Post
(unless, of course, you don't care about sound quality).
Or if you still have a standard 5/6/7(.1) speaker setup so Atmos encoding wouldn't bring much difference anyway and/or you'd rather invest your money in fewer but better speakers than more speakers?
In other words, I find insinuating that people who are not interested in Atmos don't care about sound quality is a bit cold.
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Old 20th January 2018, 04:29   #48509  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
I am not sure it is actually worse quality. When watching 4K on a 1440p screen it is more complex but for 4K on 1080p this option seems good.

With 4K on 1080p the luma is downscaled to match the chroma and then the image is converted to RGB. This way 2/3 of the image data was not scaled at all!

With 4K on 1440p the luma is downscaled to 1440p and the chroma is upscaled to 1440p, then the image is converted to RGB.
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I've not seen this option doing any harm and it saves a ton of performance.
Yea it seemed to give me very good quality and excellent performance in the limited viewing I've had so far. I watched Ghostbusters 2016 start to finish and the quality was awesome. My comment was based on the previous comments that it could potentially harm quality (which would make sense in theory given where the option lives, but, your explanation makes sense to me).
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Old 20th January 2018, 09:27   #48510  |  Link
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If that was the case, it wouldn't make sense as if you don't bitstream you'd lose Atmos and DTS:X. It was an option before immersive sound, it's not anymore (unless, of course, you don't care about sound quality).
Not everyone jumps onto the hype bandwagon of every new format and throws out thousands of dollars of equipment in the process. That has nothing to do with caring about quality, just not falling into marketing traps.

Also, not everyone has a separate room they can plaster with 4 extra speakers or whatever to even make use of this "hype".

I also don't care about 3D because I think the 3D effect in 99% of all movies is rather cheap and doesn't really enhance my experience (even takes something from it due to the glasses), be that in an actual cinema or at home.

Without bitstreaming and without 3D, a setup is just so much more reliable and less crappy, you wouldn't believe it.

Don't you play 3D Blu-rays with an external Blu-ray player? You must not care about video quality, you heathen!
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Old 20th January 2018, 10:52   #48511  |  Link
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Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
Not everyone jumps onto the hype bandwagon of every new format and throws out thousands of dollars of equipment in the process. That has nothing to do with caring about quality, just not falling into marketing traps.

Also, not everyone has a separate room they can plaster with 4 extra speakers or whatever to even make use of this "hype".

I also don't care about 3D because I think the 3D effect in 99% of all movies is rather cheap and doesn't really enhance my experience (even takes something from it due to the glasses), be that in an actual cinema or at home.

Without bitstreaming and without 3D, a setup is just so much more reliable and less crappy, you wouldn't believe it.

Don't you play 3D Blu-rays with an external Blu-ray player? You must not care about video quality, you heathen!
I have the highest respect (and appreciation) for your work, but this is complete nonsense.

My goal is to reproduce content as it was intended to be seen/heard.

It's not because you don't have any interest in immersive sound or 3D that you should knock it down as "hype".

I play 3D bluray with an external bluray player for critical viewing because to me a frame drop every three minutes is not acceptable and is far more visible than any other improvement in PQ. It takes me out of the film every time I spot one (and that's very often). Once that is fixed for nVidia users (I know it's not your or Madshi's fault but nVidia's), I'll watch 3D with MadVR/LAV, as I do for the rest of my content.

Atmos and DTS:X is the biggest evolution in sound since Dolby 5.1. Like it or not, many creative people are doing amazing things with this tool. Like with 3D, some will use it cheaply, others will use it well.

That has nothing to do with the fact that there is no point in playing UHD Bluray or 3D with MadVR if you get frame drops or SQ loss.

I can live with one frame drop per hour, not with one frame drop every 3 minutes.

I want full sound quality to hear the sound mix as it was intended, as close as possible to the way it's heard in a cinema.

Watch Gravity in 3D and Atmos in a good set-up (i.e. a proper home cinema room), and then tell me it's hype.

In any case, MadVR's goal is to provide the best picture quality, and thanks to Madshi, your work and a few others as well we can get this. There is no point in considering SQ less important. I respect your opinion, but it's just that, your opinion.
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Last edited by Manni; 20th January 2018 at 11:08.
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Old 20th January 2018, 11:07   #48512  |  Link
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Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
Or if you still have a standard 5/6/7(.1) speaker setup so Atmos encoding wouldn't bring much difference anyway and/or you'd rather invest your money in fewer but better speakers than more speakers?
In other words, I find insinuating that people who are not interested in Atmos don't care about sound quality is a bit cold.
No, I'm saying that if you are interested in Atmos and DTS:X you don't want to compromise that.

I'm not insinuating anything, I'm only saying that decoding in the source was an option a few years ago as it didn't mean any compromise in SQ. Today, it's not the case anymore if you're interested in getting immersive sound.

If you're not interested in immersive sound, I would argue that you could just as well watch blurays and not get into the "hype" of UHD Bluray. The improvements (especially HDR) might be more visible, but they are not more important than audio improvements brought by immersive sound, IMO.
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Old 20th January 2018, 11:08   #48513  |  Link
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Fair call, I notice frame drops every time they happen now, I recently updated my drivers and it knocked my custom res out and of course I notice this frame drop and had to redo my custom res.
Frame drops/repeats are cancer, I'd rather not take the resolution hit enabling Smooth Motion, so yeah totally understand where you're coming from. Nvidia needs to get it together to improve this out of the box.
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Old 20th January 2018, 11:09   #48514  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Manni View Post
Atmos and DTS:X is the biggest evolution in sound since Dolby 5.1. Like it or not, many creative people are doing amazing things with this tool. Like with 3D, some will use it cheaply, others will use it well.

Watch Gravity in 3D and Atmos in a good set-up (i.e. a proper home cinema room), and then tell me it's hype.
I was very impressed by the sound quality of the Mission Impossible: Rogue Nation Blu-ray, which was mastered in Atmos. The thing is… I don't have an Atmos system and was just decoding the normal 5.1 stream I strongly suspect that the reason why it sounds so good is not because of the format used or the number of channels (above 5.1 you quickly start hitting diminishing returns), but because they paid extra attention to sound quality during production - it was one of the first Atmos releases so Dolby itself had people there to make sure it sounded perfect.

All that is to say: please make sure to compare apples to apples. When you enjoy a good Atmos soundtrack, the reason you enjoy it might not be because of the extra features and channels that Atmos provides, but because Atmos-mastered movies tend to be more carefully mastered (which has nothing to do with Atmos itself, really). Assuming you have a BS.775-compliant 5.1 setup, you might not hear much of a difference if you discard the additional Atmos information from a stream that is already very good to begin with.

Some people get fooled by "HD audio" (i.e. 96+kHz/24+-bit) for the same reason - they are listening to a different master, and are spuriously attributing the sound differences to the technical format used.

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Old 20th January 2018, 11:11   #48515  |  Link
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To bring the discussion back on topic, anyone has an answer for these?

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Is it possible to call a batch file in an external command in the custom profiles with a variable, such as test.bat variable
I tried with quotes: "test.bat variable" but that doesn't seem to be working.
Thanks!
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@Madshi

2) Is it just me or has vertical shift according to A/R stopped working in the latest build? I haven't changed anything in my settings, but the picture isn't shifting anymore according to A/R.
Thanks.
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Old 20th January 2018, 11:21   #48516  |  Link
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I want full sound quality to hear the sound mix as it was intended, as close as possible to the way it's heard in a cinema
So basically, you'll buy into anything the industry comes up with on that argument alone? Check.

The reality is that one can care about sound and picture quality without buying into every new technology immediately as its released, or without having a huge dedicated home cinema room, which very few people even have the space for. I have high quality sound hardware which has served me perfectly over the years, even with room to expand in channel count if I ever need to (maybe someone will come up with a software decoder for Atmos one day), but replacing my DAC and Amp would have me shelve thousands of dollars worth of hardware, which I'm not willing to do - especially because that would mean I would have to go back to HDMI audio, which I'm so happy to have ditched so many years ago.

As another example, I don't have a HDR screen yet not because I don't care about HDR, but specifically *because* I care about quality (and don't want to buy a new TV for thousands of dollars every few years). I don't want to be an early adopter with a screen that can barely reach 95% DCI-P3 with barely enough brightness and will be left out in the cold with new HDR formats or HDMI 2.1. Technology needs time to mature and only when it does you'll be able to see which will stick around and be relevant in the future.
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Old 20th January 2018, 11:41   #48517  |  Link
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bump...

@nevcairiel

bump...

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...98#post1831098

Could you have a look at this?

Regards
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Old 20th January 2018, 11:57   #48518  |  Link
Manni
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So basically, you'll buy into anything the industry comes up with on that argument alone? Check.

The reality is that one can care about sound and picture quality without buying into every new technology immediately as its released, or without having a huge dedicated home cinema room, which very few people even have the space for.
I don't know what you are thinking, but you've got the wrong picture in your head. I don't have a huge cinema room, it's a small, converted loft with slanted ceilings which is also my home office. Yes, I'm prepared to work in a black velvet covered room. My screen is puny (88" diagonal 16/9) because that's the biggest I could fit in the room. The room itself only sits two adults and a couple of kids (my family) and occasionally a couple of friends (but not all at the same time). I don't spend thousands of dollars in this. Most of my speakers are second-hand discontinued models, bought from e-bay. I have a great dealer who trades-in my stuff when I upgrade the big things, every 3-5 years (I try to not do the AVR and the PJ the same year!), so I only pay the difference between the new model and the second-hand value of the old one. Also waiting for HDMI 2.1 for the next upgrade. I'm just passionate about PQ and SQ. Anyone with such a passion can achieve this in their home, even if it's a studio flat, if they don't spend the money on alcohol, cigarettes (I buy films) or expensive cars and holidays (I buy consumer A/V gear), which I don't. Is that a crime?

Now please can we get back on topic?
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Old 20th January 2018, 14:43   #48519  |  Link
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Is it possible to call a batch file in an external command in the custom profiles with a variable, such as test.bat variable
To answer this myself, the standard way (command.bat argument) is working fine, it's the external command implementation that is still flaky (at least here), which is why I thought it didn't work.

If I play an HDR file, check that my custom profile for HDR content is active, change the external command to be launched when the custom profile is enabled, and click apply, the command is sent in real-time and it works 100% of the time, which means that it’s not a batch/syntax problem but a MadVR issue that hopefully Madshi will resolve soon.
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Old 20th January 2018, 15:06   #48520  |  Link
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I also don't care about 3D because I think the 3D effect in 99% of all movies is rather cheap and doesn't really enhance my experience !
Hi, I just want to add something to this to back up Manni. I used to be take it or leave it about 3D early on, LCD active was pretty trash, heavy glasses and cross talk city, I did however enjoy some movies, mainly the marvels.

In 2015 this all changed, I got a 65 inch LG OLED... O...M...G, 3d on this totally blew me away, I imediately started collecting 3D movies and now have nearly every one worth having.

its not just a bit better than LCD active / LCD passive its miles better and there are some absolutely fantastic examples of well done 3D.

Pretty much all the marvel series look fantastic, the 3D conversion of titanic is something else, I could name loads.

Your're right, there are a lot of crappy ones but for me there are more good ones than crap ones now.

I'm also not a bandwagon jumper, I went 4k only because it was the only 65 inch OLED available at the time and I dont regret it at all.

I do have a basic atmos setup but this does add to my experience, I have a standard 5.1 with two heights and a transducer under my sofa which also massively adds to the experience.

For me, like Manni its about getting close to a cinema experience as I can and that is closer to how the makers of the movie intended.

I was totally gutted when they dropped 3D, I put a thread together on AV forums and a chap on there created a petition which got 14000 sigs, may not seem a lot but 14000 bothering to read and sign up to something means something, it was more sigs than the HDR game mode got on the LGE6 and LG took notice.

I appreciate that 3D isnt for everyone but I cant help feeling those that are against it just haven't had the right experience with it at home.

I and many others would be totally gutted if it was stripped out of MADVR and LAV, i'm glad there are no plans do this.

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