MadVR in use with LG OLED Thread

[huhn]

Originally Posted by leeperry

Apparently even C9 won't accept 2160p120 over HDMI: https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/c9-oled

It seems that C8 was already able to do 120Hz FI: https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/c8-oled

BFI calls for much faster refresh rates AFAIK so this is kind of a moot point I think.

So basically the diff between B & C is a better upscaling engine? Kinda pointless with mVR?

the C9 has HDMI 2.1 which can do 120 hz. but there is no player or GPU with HDMI 2.1 to test it.
all oled have at least an 120 HZ panel all highend LCDs too.
60 HZ source has the best motion quality with 60 Hz BFI with 120 you will get ghosting. 23p will always have ghosting with BFI.
i have a screen that can do 240 HZ + BFI trust me you don't want this...

So what's an OLED that does 444 w/ postprocessing please? Hopefully from 2018 so I can get it on sales

supposedly all not entry sonys in graphic or game picture mode.
you should always double check this with someone that owns a device is at least similar and that will not be me because i wait for HDMI 2.1.

[leeperry]

Originally Posted by huhn

the C9 has HDMI 2.1 which can do 120 hz. but there is no player or GPU with HDMI 2.1 to test it.

Truth is I can't be hassled upgrading my GPU as even a RX580 is only 100% faster than my HD7870, if AMD ever come up with a $200ish monster GPU that warrants a serious speed increase I shall consider it..so in the meantime I do plan on using one of those dongles to output 2160p60 over DP: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=Club+3D+M...price-asc-rank

Shame even newest ones can't do @120 and I don't think I care much for HDR at this point.

Originally Posted by huhn

supposedly all not entry sonys in graphic or game picture mode.
you should always double check this with someone that owns a device is at least similar and that will not be me because i wait for HDMI 2.1.

Well yah, that's what I'm doing here but I stil feel that highest bang/bucks would be a 850€ish B8, possibly B9 if I get lucky.

[huhn]

a HD5870 is a 10 year old card so i guess you mean the RX 5700 which more then double the speed.

even just the paper numbers it is 4x as fast and this ignore IPC gains and the feature set.

even an RX 5500 XT for 190 is at least 2x the speed of your card.
not that i can recommend these broken cards my RX 5700 xt good example.

madshi hints heavily on features that use turing exclusive processing power this is not confirmed. but he is recommending turing cards.

[leeperry]

Originally Posted by huhn

a HD5870 is a 10 year old card so i guess you mean the RX 5700 which more then double the speed.

even just the paper numbers it is 4x as fast and this ignore IPC gains and the feature set.

even an RX 5500 XT for 190 is at least 2x the speed of your card.
not that i can recommend these broken cards my RX 5700 xt good example.

madshi hints heavily on features that use turing exclusive processing power this is not confirmed. but he is recommending turing cards.

my bad but RX580 Vs HD7870 is barely +100% : https://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compar...870/3923vs2161

and FWIR mVR provides higher performance/watt on 78xx than 5x0, Moore Law's just isn't true anymore.

I couldn't care less for nvidia graphic cards so I'll wait for AMD to catch the bullet I guess.

[huhn]

userbenchmarks is not trust worthy.
and yes polaris is a bad choice for madVR i instantly reported back in the days with my RX 480 which got outperformed by my R9 270.

NAVI doesn't have this problem. the driver is the fun part.

[chros]

Originally Posted by huhn

i have a screen that can do 240 HZ + BFI trust me you don't want this...

Interesting, reviewers have high hopes about this, I guess we have to wait and see how it goes.

Originally Posted by huhn

supposedly all not entry sonys in graphic or game picture mode.
you should always double check this with someone that owns a device is at least similar

"Supposedly" , but yes, someone has to check it: e.g. the "entry" level Sony AG8 (that has the same price as C9) doesn't even have CMS controls (let alone 1dlut/3dlut/etc.)!

Originally Posted by huhn

that will not be me because i wait for HDMI 2.1

Good news, hopefully they release the next lineup with it. We will be waiting for you

Originally Posted by Asmodian

I am still confused why you connect these? Of course RTings does not mention pixel artifacts as part of chroma subsampling, they are not related in anyway.

These kind of pixel artifacts are the result of the panel, not the processing chip that is responsible for processing chroma. Turning off PC mode does not make them go away. These artifacts are not chroma subsampling artifacts. They are simply unrelated to chroma sampling.

Really, why are these connected in your mind?

It's not just me, but the question is why they aren't not connected for You?

But seriously, these are *not* "pixel artifacts are the result of the panel", but result of picture processing. Try it with 60Hz, it should be proper 4:4:4.
I refer to black box testing (since we don't know much about the different stages of the internal processing chain, and even if we would know we still wouldn't be able to do much about it), all I/we care about is:
input 4:4:4 -> TV -> no 4:4:4 output

Originally Posted by leeperry

So what's an OLED that does 444 w/ postprocessing please? Hopefully from 2018 so I can get it on sales

Not LG, not Panasonic, not Philips, I don't know much about Sony, HiSense, Toshiba, etc.
But Xiaomi and Huawei will also jump into the oled TV business (with LG panels) next year, hopefully making the competition way more interesting!

If the price does matter for you, then go ahead with the cheapest LG Oled at a given size (I also have the B8), none of them are perfect. But don't buy a used one or one without warranty!

[chros]

Originally Posted by chros

that's supposed to be one of the key features of the 2019 models, but they didn't add it at the end, probably due to chrominance overshoot issue, that just got attention around that time

Btw, here's a good explanation how the fix for the chrominance overshoot impacted the planned BFI in 2019 LG Oleds.

[huhn]

Originally Posted by chros

Good news, hopefully they release the next lineup with it. We will be waiting for you

not going to be an OLED.
you guys are doing to much good work in showing there dreadful flaws.
and i'm prude to say that i managed to burn in an LCD in my live.

[chros]

Originally Posted by huhn

not going to be an OLED.

Oh, noooo ... Then what are you doing here?!

[Asmodian]

Originally Posted by chros

input 4:4:4 -> TV -> no 4:4:4 output

I do get 4:4:4 output with 60 Hz PC mode, every pixel obviously has its own chroma value and if I use alternating chroma values every other pixel is different. There is no blending of chroma values between pixels. That is what 4:4:4 means.

[mark0077]

I'm surprised nobody else here is reporting the issue when in YCbCr 444 8-bit mode, when going fullscreen windowed (10-bit) mode with HDR content, the screen goes a very strong tinge of green. I am seeing many posts on nvidias forums over the past 2 years. I don't see any good solution though apart from things like restarting the graphics driver which sometimes kicks it into working mode. Everything from DDU / clean install of drivers, to Windows re-install doesn't fix it.

When in madVR windowed mode, there is no issue at all with YCbCr 444 8-bit 60hz (nor non direct X 11 full screen mode). I'm quite suite at this point that its not HDMI limitation as it also happens at 23hz.

Is anyone able to reproduce this strong green tinge when going fullscreen windowed mode in madVR, with an up to date nvidia driver, up to date Windows 10 on their C9 or any display for that matter?

[cyberscott]

Originally Posted by mark0077

I'm surprised nobody else here is reporting the issue when in YCbCr 444 8-bit mode, when going fullscreen windowed (10-bit) mode with HDR content, the screen goes a very strong tinge of green. I am seeing many posts on nvidias forums over the past 2 years. I don't see any good solution though apart from things like restarting the graphics driver which sometimes kicks it into working mode. Everything from DDU / clean install of drivers, to Windows re-install doesn't fix it.

When in madVR windowed mode, there is no issue at all with YCbCr 444 8-bit 60hz. I'm quite suite at this point that its not HDMI limitation as it also happens at 23hz.

Is anyone able to reproduce this strong green tinge when going fullscreen windowed mode in madVR, with an up to date nvidia driver, up to date Windows 10 on their C9 or any display for that matter?

I have a C9, 2080 Ti, latest drivers for nivida and latest Windows 10 version and have never seen a green tint as you have described when in YcbCr 444 8 bit mode, using madVR and HDR.
Are you directly connected to to C9 or going through a receiver first?
Also, HDMI cable could be a factor as well. Are you using HDMI 2.0b Premium Certified cables? A loose connection on either end or internal short in the cable can cause issues too. If possible, change the cable out and see if it is repeatable. Also, try a different HDMI port on TV or different HDMI on your video card, if available.
I've had perfectly working HDMI cables suddenly go bad on me in the past, causing the picture to go into a 16 bit like color scheme when pushing a high bit rate content. I always keep a couple of known good 2.0b cables for troubleshooting or replacement.

[SamuriHL]

I've not seen that issue, either. That would suck.

[mark0077]

No problem, thought some of you may have seen it. Maybe its the cable although I have tried a few (all non certified), or maybe its my GTX 980. Seemed because in DX9 windowed mode its fine, and in DX11 fullscreen its not, i thought it was back to being an nvidia bug. Cheers for the inputs anyways guys.

[chros]

Originally Posted by Asmodian

I do get 4:4:4 output with 60 Hz PC mode, every pixel obviously has its own chroma value and if I use alternating chroma values every other pixel is different. There is no blending of chroma values between pixels. That is what 4:4:4 means.

Yes, but we don't get the same result @ 23/24p, do we? What does it tell you?

[Asmodian]

On my C9 I get exactly the same results at 23/24p as I do at 60p. I can switch band and forth between 23 and 60 Hz and I notice no change in the image even when close enough to resolve individual pixels in the ChromaRes test image.

What differences do you notice?

[chros]

Originally Posted by Asmodian

What differences do you notice?

I just checked it, and there's no difference between 23/24p and 60p at 2160p.
Maybe we don't talk about the same thing? Take look at the first section "Chroma 4:4:4" of this post.

[SamuriHL]

Chros and others that have and use calman on OLED. Calman was just updated with a new 3dlut algorithm that handles OLED panel drift better. It's a fixed point lut with 9 17 or 21 points. The 9 point does nearly 800 measurements the 17 point is over 9000 etc. I ran the 9 point last night and while my results weren't what I necessarily wanted and I need to redo it today, I can definitely see where this is going to be awesome for us.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[leeperry]

Oh and to be perfectly clear ABL and ASBL have become non-issues on B8 and later models? Asking because ABL was completely unbearable on older 1080p models but max brightness was in the 100 cd/m2 region IIRC, newer 4K models are >150 so no nasty visible compression at work? I've looked really hard at 4K models and couldn't notice anything when OTOH it was instantly jumping to my eyes on 1080p's which got me to wonder whether buyers are blind

I also read that ASBL would trigger in movies with little movements?

And how can they boast about HDR when max brightness is 150 cd/m2 anyhow

[huhn]

simple they have a stable brightness in the ~150 region they can be far brighter for a smaller part of the screen.

even the old 1080p model could reach more then 300.

AFAIK ASBL is defeatable in the LG service menu.