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Old 6th February 2017, 19:19   #42321  |  Link
huhn
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if want to see some light at the end of the tunnel.
the NGU very high x4 scaler performed very well on my RX 480.

i still don't know how people can accept such a huge regression compare to the R9 390 but not my problem.
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Old 6th February 2017, 19:27   #42322  |  Link
pose
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Originally Posted by huhn View Post
i still don't know how people can accept such a huge regression compare to the R9 390 but not my problem.
NGU on R9 390 is much faster than on RX 480? Ive heard multiple times since the NGU implementation that Polaris is bad at it but yet to see any decent comparison with older cards of the same tier.
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Old 6th February 2017, 19:43   #42323  |  Link
Damien147
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Originally Posted by pose View Post
Why? What resolution youre scaling to?
HD to 4k(4096x2160)

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Originally Posted by pose View Post
I have RX 470 and NGU very high is as fast as NNEDI3 128 in the same scenario. Probably not as fast as it should be but good enough for me.
This means that you can run NGU very high ?
Same scenario as mine you mean?
The best I can do is NGU high for HD to 4k but for some occasions I get dropped frames with high(only a few).

I am like HD to 4K--->NGU med(chroma and luma)-->Jinc AR.You?
Tried NNEDI3 128(chroma and luma) to check your saying and I get dropped frames.

Last edited by Damien147; 6th February 2017 at 19:45.
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Old 6th February 2017, 19:43   #42324  |  Link
huhn
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there are numbers in this thread.
it was something like 3-5 times slower.

my 960 out performances the rx 480 of cause only in NGU.
i have a r9 270 amd and only the 960 at the time so no R9 390 or something like that but the R9 270 is fine in term of NGU performance.
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Old 6th February 2017, 20:21   #42325  |  Link
pose
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien147 View Post
HD to 4k(4096x2160)
This means that you can run NGU very high ?
Same scenario as mine you mean?
Ooh, i see. No, im a pleb and my monitor is a 1080p. I run NGU med chroma/ NGU very high luma -> Jinc AR upscaling / SSIM 1D100 AR LL downscaling. Good to know that you at least can do NGU high, it should look great
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Originally Posted by Damien147 View Post
Tried NNEDI3 128(chroma and luma) to check your saying and I get dropped frames.
Dont use such excessive amount of neurons for chroma when youre upscaling something. Luma is the most important.

Last edited by pose; 6th February 2017 at 20:34.
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Old 6th February 2017, 21:17   #42326  |  Link
kitame
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"heavy" image enhancements responds quite well with NGU, it wasn't much useful with Lanczos or NNEDI3 before.

current settings:
sharpen edges = 1.0
LumaSharpen = 0.75
AdaptiveSharpen = 1.0
anti-bloating filter = 75%
anti-ringing filter = yes

chroma upscaling = NGU (low)
image upscaling = NGU (high+high)


on a side note, whats "algorithm to use after doubling" for? if i don't check the 200% supersampling does it mean it remains unused?
also, theres a second "Chroma NGU(low)" on the OSD, is this normal?

Last edited by kitame; 6th February 2017 at 21:31.
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Old 6th February 2017, 22:35   #42327  |  Link
Damien147
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Originally Posted by pose View Post
Ooh, i see. No, im a pleb and my monitor is a 1080p. I run NGU med chroma/ NGU very high luma -> Jinc AR upscaling / SSIM 1D100 AR LL downscaling. Good to know that you at least can do NGU high, it should look great
Looks great indeed.Good to know that my GPU works as intended because you gave me second thoughts.There's gonna be a confusion with NGU pixart and standard NGU for what to choose in the future I guess but we'll see how it goes.

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Originally Posted by pose View Post
Dont use such excessive amount of neurons for chroma when youre upscaling something. Luma is the most important.
I just used NNEDI3 to compare with what you said.Thanks for the tip though.

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Originally Posted by huhn View Post
there are numbers in this thread.
it was something like 3-5 times slower.

my 960 out performances the rx 480 of cause only in NGU.
i have a r9 270 amd and only the 960 at the time so no R9 390 or something like that but the R9 270 is fine in term of NGU performance.
That gives as hope that things will hopefully improve in the future.

Last edited by Damien147; 6th February 2017 at 22:45.
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Old 6th February 2017, 22:35   #42328  |  Link
Georgel
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@madshi

I continued testing and results are mixed.

On some or most sources, NGU is better than NNEDI.

To be honest, the new NGU looks really good and this is the sweet spot.

NGU at those settings will distort the image, but less than the other algorithms. The sharpening has one of the least ringing and added aliasing / noise so this makes most sense to be kept. I still wouldn't dismiss NNEDI entirely, someone might need it, and NGU will still add some of that GPU high pitched noise. If there is any way to make it even faster, that would be helpful, after some point it's not efficient enough and will introduce dropped frames.



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Old 6th February 2017, 22:35   #42329  |  Link
Warner306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kitame View Post
"heavy" image enhancements responds quite well with NGU, it wasn't much useful with Lanczos or NNEDI3 before.

current settings:
sharpen edges = 1.0
LumaSharpen = 0.75
AdaptiveSharpen = 1.0
anti-bloating filter = 75%
anti-ringing filter = yes

chroma upscaling = NGU (low)
image upscaling = NGU (high+high)


on a side note, whats "algorithm to use after doubling" for? if i don't check the 200% supersampling does it mean it remains unused?
also, theres a second "Chroma NGU(low)" on the OSD, is this normal?
Scaling from 720p -> 1080p, for example, overscales to 1440p, so downscaling is required after doubling -- 1440p -> 1080p.
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Old 6th February 2017, 22:41   #42330  |  Link
kitame
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Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
Scaling from 720p -> 1080p, for example, overscales to 1440p, so downscaling is required after doubling -- 1440p -> 1080p.
that makes sense, however how does one trigger it?

edit: i think i got it, it automatically triggers depending on the source's scaling requirement.
e.g. if source requires more than double it triggers the "upscaling" input, where as if the source requires less than double it triggers the "downscaling" input.

then does this mean the image upscaling does 2x scaling by default?
if this is the case then shouldn't "image upscaling" be renamed into "image doubling" to make an accurate description?

edit2: i just noticed these doubling requirements only applies to Super-XBR, NNEDI3 and NGU.

Last edited by kitame; 6th February 2017 at 22:58.
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Old 6th February 2017, 23:03   #42331  |  Link
davide1983
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madvr and 4k

Hi, why madvr scaling algorithms don't work whit 4k resolution ?

Thanks
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Old 6th February 2017, 23:10   #42332  |  Link
Damien147
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Try restoring default settings,for me they work.
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Old 7th February 2017, 00:28   #42333  |  Link
MS-DOS
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madshi, Is D3D11 version of NGU still planned?
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Old 7th February 2017, 01:09   #42334  |  Link
jkauff
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Not well enough compared to what? The only important question for me right now is if NGU pixart can replace NNEDI3 or not, because that's what it was designed for.
After testing with several SD movies (none animated), NNEDI3 still wins. NGU pixart High processing does not look as "natural" for live-action as NNEDI3 128/32. It resembles the look I get when I throw SuperRes into the mix--too processed-looking. This is especially true for black-and-white films.

I have no doubt it works fine for anime, although I have no anime to test with. I hope other testers will be trying it out with SD live-action movies to confirm or refute what I'm seeing.

BTW, I'm using a GTX1060 with the latest drivers.

EDIT: NGU still looks great for higher resolution sources, as it has since you introduced it. However, I watch a lot of SD.

Last edited by jkauff; 7th February 2017 at 01:17.
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Old 7th February 2017, 01:38   #42335  |  Link
ryrynz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkauff View Post
I have no doubt it works fine for anime, although I have no anime to test with. I hope other testers will be trying it out with SD live-action movies to confirm or refute what I'm seeing.
It's fine.. Not as good as NNEDI3 64 neurons, but even with HD anime I still prefer the more natural look to its lines over NGU, it just has a flat and processed look to it. Glad to see other people picking up on it too.

Try NGU with edge blurring on 1 or 2 and ~0.5 edge sharpening and IMO it looks a bit better.. But then your performance benefit goes out the window..

Last edited by ryrynz; 7th February 2017 at 01:47.
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Old 7th February 2017, 03:39   #42336  |  Link
leeperry
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I don't watch anime so I'm not sure if my testing would help but why do you wanna ditch sxbr and/or NNEDI3? So far I like the latter for very low-res SD and the former in combination with SR for stuff that's too noisy to get the NGU treatment, I don't think there will ever be a one-size-fits-all doubler that will work in any given situation. I rest my case that in combination with FRC I love what SR does to motion-blur and NGU turned this combo into bloatland last time I checked =/

Last edited by leeperry; 7th February 2017 at 03:42.
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Old 7th February 2017, 04:25   #42337  |  Link
khanmein
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@Georgel what kinda graphic card u using now? cheers.
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Old 7th February 2017, 04:30   #42338  |  Link
khanmein
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Quote:
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because NGU is very slow on polaris GPU for still unknown reasons.
i personally think related to ROPs value cos RX480 (32) compare with R9 290/390/x (64)
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Old 7th February 2017, 10:23   #42339  |  Link
madshi
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Originally Posted by cork_OS View Post
Seems I see what you mean (EDIT: NNEDI is sharper and lines are darker or more expressed/emphasized): http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/199707
Source sample (frame 80).
FWIW, your zoom factor is very weird. It's not 2x and not 4x, but something in between. And I can say that with zoom factor, the current madVR builds happens to apply NGU pixart twice, but NNEDI3 only once, so it's somewhat of an apples to oranges comparison. If you pick a slightly smaller zoom factor, NGU pixart is applies only once, too, which makes the images nearer to each other. There still are differences, though.

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Originally Posted by kitame View Post
"heavy" image enhancements responds quite well with NGU, it wasn't much useful with Lanczos or NNEDI3 before.
Are you talking about NGU (one of the official madVR builds)? Or the special "NGU pixart" test build? If it's the pixart test build, please make sure you say "NGU pixart", otherwise there might be confusion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgel View Post
I continued testing and results are mixed.

On some or most sources, NGU is better than NNEDI.
NGU or "NGU pixart"? Those are 2 different things!!

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Originally Posted by MS-DOS View Post
madshi, Is D3D11 version of NGU still planned?
Maybe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkauff View Post
After testing with several SD movies (none animated), NNEDI3 still wins. NGU pixart High processing does not look as "natural" for live-action as NNEDI3 128/32. It resembles the look I get when I throw SuperRes into the mix--too processed-looking. This is especially true for black-and-white films.

I have no doubt it works fine for anime, although I have no anime to test with. I hope other testers will be trying it out with SD live-action movies to confirm or refute what I'm seeing.

EDIT: NGU still looks great for higher resolution sources, as it has since you introduced it. However, I watch a lot of SD.
Screenshots (with unscaled source frames), please?

Quote:
Originally Posted by leeperry View Post
I don't watch anime so I'm not sure if my testing would help but why do you wanna ditch sxbr and/or NNEDI3?
Because NNEDI3 is very slow (and relies on unstable OpenCL). If I can make an algorithm which is both faster *and* better looking than NNEDI3 with the same sources NNEDI3 shines with, then that should be a benefit for everybody.
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Old 7th February 2017, 12:53   #42340  |  Link
BluesFanUK
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NGU is very good, but to me it's a pointless function atm purely because of the noise it generates on the GPU. It's EXTREMELY annoying, sounds like the PC is frying.

Headphones on when I use it.

Last edited by BluesFanUK; 7th February 2017 at 12:58.
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