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Old 5th July 2020, 18:04   #261  |  Link
ksec
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This makes me wonder...... If MulticoreWare will be interested in x266.
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Old 6th July 2020, 06:03   #262  |  Link
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This makes me wonder...... If MulticoreWare will be interested in x266.
Their best developer left a few years ago to work for a video encoding server company which is why x265 doesn't do so well compared to proprietary h265 encoders unlike x264 which beats proprietary encoders.
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Old 6th July 2020, 07:54   #263  |  Link
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On the Astra 2E (28.2 E) satellite emission tests appeared in VVC compression, the future successor of the HEVC / H.265 standard. These experiments are conducted by the satellite operator SES and the French technology company ATEME specializing in solutions for the supply of video content.
At the moment, popular software is not ready to handle VVC streams. Therefore, it is not easy to preview the content. Satkurier.pl editors have managed to determine so much that the image itself is emitted at a rate of 20.55 Mbit / s - probably at a resolution of 8K. Although the audio track is reporting, it is not broadcast.
Technical parameters:
Astra 2E (28.2 E) tp. 14 (11.973 GHz, pol. V, SR: 31000, FEC: 9/10; DVB-S2 / 8PSK)

New codec 2020.06.04
https://www.sendspace.com/file/3l7d6z

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Old 6th July 2020, 11:38   #264  |  Link
ksec
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Their best developer left a few years ago to work for a video encoding server company which is why x265 doesn't do so well compared to proprietary h265 encoders unlike x264 which beats proprietary encoders.
You mean Beamr? ( And BEAMR 5 is a god damn good encoder ).

In hindsight x264 was sort of the outliner, it sets the bar and expectation of a free encoder way too high. Dark Shikari was driving it with burning passion.

And MulticoareWare are now more focused in ML, Al, DataScience type of business. ( Cant blame them since that is where the money are right now )
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Old 6th July 2020, 12:20   #265  |  Link
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Speaking of which, when do you think work on x266 will begin?
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Old 6th July 2020, 13:02   #266  |  Link
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Not before the specs are "final"? ... Are they?
_

PS: Oh, I just learned it is. Newsletter

The licensing is promoted to be FRAND = "fair, reasonable and non-discriminatory" ... we will see.
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Old 6th July 2020, 16:18   #267  |  Link
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The licensing is promoted to be FRAND = "fair, reasonable and non-discriminatory" ... we will see.
Except thats not up to them, but the hundreds of patent holders, who will manage to ruin it again, I'm sure. Getting every patent holder into one pool that they can actually guarantee fair terms for is unlikely.
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Old 6th July 2020, 16:39   #268  |  Link
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Except thats not up to them, but the hundreds of patent holders, who will manage to ruin it again, I'm sure. Getting every patent holder into one pool that they can actually guarantee fair terms for is unlikely.
In case anyone missed it, that is the purpose of MC-IF. If you look at the members page linked below [1], pretty much all patent holder are there. ( Represented by their respective group, such as Qualcomm by Velos Media)

So the single pool ( first part of the equation ) is done, getting out there terms is another matter though.

Personally I think a decent terms would be $1 per devices for hardware encoder and decoder with "NO CAP". And free software implementation for decoding. ( Preferably with Image Format exemption. VVC as an image is ridiculously good at low bpp )



[1] https://www.mc-if.org/our-members
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Old 6th July 2020, 16:47   #269  |  Link
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In case anyone missed it, that is the purpose of MC-IF. If you look at the members page linked below [1], pretty much all patent holder are there. ( Represented by their respective group, such as Qualcomm by Velos Media)
And that originally was also the plan of the MPEG-LA, and then HEVC Advance happened.

30 something companies seems pretty low to cover all the patents, which would have large overlap with HEVC and even H.264 still. MPEG-LA had over 40 companies in the HEVC patent pool, and thats not including those that jumped to HEVC Advance.

I hope they manage to make a fair and resonable situation happen, but knowing how many of those companies have behaved in the past, i'm not entirely confident.
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Old 6th July 2020, 18:08   #270  |  Link
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And that originally was also the plan of the MPEG-LA, and then HEVC Advance happened.

30 something companies seems pretty low to cover all the patents, which would have large overlap with HEVC and even H.264 still. MPEG-LA had over 40 companies in the HEVC patent pool, and thats not including those that jumped to HEVC Advance.

I hope they manage to make a fair and resonable situation happen, but knowing how many of those companies have behaved in the past, i'm not entirely confident.
Well MPEG-LA started HEVC licensing with only ~20 companies. i.e They never reached an agreement and went ahead. That was how HEVC advance started.

And for the listed 3x Members in MC-IF, HEVC Advance is in there. As a matter of fact all of the current HEVC Pool are there. ( Velos, HEVC Advance, Fraunhofer) Along with Sisvel and United Patents, together there are well over a hundred companies represented and more.

AFAIK, there has never been a larger list of companies joining together for video codec.

Again, that is not to say they will agree on something. Or if the agreement will really be "reasonable" by other's definition.

Finger Crossed.
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Old 6th July 2020, 18:56   #271  |  Link
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An official press release of VVC/ H.266 from Fraunhofer HHI

50% less bit rate for same quality of H.265

https://newsletter.fraunhofer.de/-vi...t/V44RELLZBp/1
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Old 6th July 2020, 20:21   #272  |  Link
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50% less bit rate for same quality of H.265
The Mpeg-LA said that HEVC had 50% better compression than h264 so i would take this claim with a pinch of salt. I'd be happy with 35% improvement.

VVC VTM 9.3 is out: https://vcgit.hhi.fraunhofer.de/jvet...VTM/-/releases

Hopefully someone will do some extensive benchmarks using V9.3 comparing it to other codecs in terms of compression now that it has been ratified.

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Old 7th July 2020, 01:31   #273  |  Link
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The Mpeg-LA said that HEVC had 50% better compression than h264 so i would take this claim with a pinch of salt. I'd be happy with 35% improvement.
It was "up to 50%" and there are certainly cases where that is met. I would say the best HEVC encoders are about 2x better than the best H.264 encoders of 2012 with the HEVC spec was finished. H.264 encoders have gotten better in that time frame as well, although at a slower pace. In the same way, we can expect HEVC encoders to keep getting better well into the VVC era. Heck, Beamr has shown substantial H.264 encoder efficiency improvements in the last 18 months. We've even seen big MPEG-2 encoder improvements in the last five years. Moore's Law means we're always getting more MIPS/pixel and can figure out new ways to turn a lot more compute into incremental quality gains.

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Hopefully someone will do some extensive benchmarks using V9.3 comparing it to other codecs in terms of compression now that it has been ratified.
Alas, we really can't compare codecs. We can compare encoders. That's a big reason why the 1st encoders of a new codec are far from 2x better than the mature encoders of the prior generation codec. It take a while before implementations catch up with older encoders, and even longer for encoder vendors to figure out how to optimally use all the new tools in the much more complex newer codec.

One advantage of VVC over, say, AV1, is that a VVC encoder can start with a HEVC encoder without that much tweaking, and then VVC-specific features can be added. That's how x265 started.
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Last edited by benwaggoner; 7th July 2020 at 16:35. Reason: Added more details about older codecs' evolution.
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Old 7th July 2020, 15:09   #274  |  Link
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New codec 2020.07.07 v9.3
https://www.sendspace.com/file/i9uta6
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Old 9th July 2020, 17:32   #275  |  Link
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One advantage of VVC over, say, AV1, is that a VVC encoder can start with a HEVC encoder without that much tweaking, and then VVC-specific features can be added. That's how x265 started.
It would have been an advantage if VVC was in the same position that HEVC was in over VP9.

In that case HEVC came out a year earlier than VP9, and VP8 had gained little traction beyond Youtube at that point.

This time AV1 has a 2 year lead, and several encoders both open and proprietary available with ASIC decoders trickling into the consumer marketplace.

Despite not being at quality parity with libaom, SVT AV1 can do much faster than real time HD on a single socket system - I would expect that to improve even further well before performant and feature complete software VVC encoders are in the mainstream.
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Old 9th July 2020, 18:02   #276  |  Link
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It would have been an advantage if VVC was in the same position that HEVC was in over VP9.

In that case HEVC came out a year earlier than VP9, and VP8 had gained little traction beyond Youtube at that point.

This time AV1 has a 2 year lead, and several encoders both open and proprietary available with ASIC decoders trickling into the consumer marketplace.
It's an advantage in that an equivalent maturity VVC encoder will be available sooner after standardization than has been true with AV1. Given that VVC is fundamentally better technoology, I imagine we'll see VVC encoders that beat the then-best available AV1 at quality @ perf @ bitrate by the end of 2021.

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Despite not being at quality parity with libaom, SVT AV1 can do much faster than real time HD on a single socket system - I would expect that to improve even further well before performant and feature complete software VVC encoders are in the mainstream.
But the SVT AV1 still isn't competitive with commercial live HEVC encoders with quality @ perf @ bitrate. And in offline enocding, the best AV1 still isn't consistantly meeting let alone beating the best HEVC today.
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Old 10th July 2020, 05:03   #277  |  Link
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We will see what happens.

I waited 5 years to prove my point TSMC will Fab 5nm SoC in 2020, I could wait another 3 for AV1.
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