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1st February 2019, 21:55 | #54541 | Link |
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I've gone back and forth on that one. madshi theorized that with dynamic on it wouldn't need to do as much of its own tone mapping on top of what madvr does. With the latest LG firmware they fixed a few of the issues I saw so it's definitely better, but, I'll do some more testing with it off and see if there's a big difference.
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2nd February 2019, 00:10 | #54542 | Link | |
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I would think you would get the best results by leaving dynamic tone mapping enabled. Using a static curve will provide no relief from tone mapping for the entire movie. This would only make sense if the display disabled its tone mapping when confronted with metadata that indicates the source is within the display's brightness. But dynamic tone mapping should already do this without needing any metadata. I've seen some spectacular HDR on a 2018 LG OLED, so I have no reason to bash it's tone mapping.
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HOW TO - Set up madVR for Kodi DSPlayer & External Media Players |
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2nd February 2019, 00:15 | #54543 | Link |
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That's why I currently have it enabled in my setup. There was some DEFINITE issues in previous firmware versions that seem to be fixed now. Since then I've not seen any real issues with dynamic enabled and using madvr tonemapping set to a 700 target nit. It looks fantastic to me. But then again, I don't proclaim to be an expert in this area. I'm still constantly learning and I've been playing with this since last summer.
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2nd February 2019, 01:57 | #54544 | Link | |
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In MadVR I've set the scaling settings to 1080p23 It's only the beginning of the file that has a delay, the rest plays normal. If my system would struggle, shouldn't it struggle with the whole file ? Weird that it struggles in the beginning of it then. Then I would rather have it that after the delay it starts playing from 00:00:00 audio and video. Now it's audio after 5s and audio+video after 10s |
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2nd February 2019, 02:14 | #54545 | Link |
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you are changing the refreshrate and the resolution by doing this your TV has to "resync"(it's the wrong word but whatever) and the time this takes is defined by your TV maybe AVR not really madVR.
a normal PC monitor can do this in about a sec or even less. TV and even worse projectors can take a long time like 5-20 secs. a workaround would be leaving the screen at 1080p23 using a player that can start a file paused and enter fullscreen before you play. using FSE can add even more blackscreen. |
2nd February 2019, 11:40 | #54546 | Link | |
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So I guess Mediaportal doesn't have such a function then ? Anyway here's the link to the exact problem I have. And people saying with another version they didn't have the problem. http://bugs.madshi.net/view.php?id=479 |
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2nd February 2019, 12:24 | #54548 | Link | |
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As far as I know mastering monitors don't do any tonemapping, so non-bright scenes should look similar to what I see with dynamic tonemapping disabled. Then why would it be a good thing to brighten up darker scenes? I did a small test to see how much LGs dynamic tonemapping messes with non-bright scenes. I just displayed a 50 nits movie scene in the background while running a grayscale sweep in HCFR. The result shows exactly what my eyes have been seeing when using LGs dynamic tonemapping. Large deviations from the PQ, even in the lower range. With it turned off it at least follows it nicely up to like 125 nits. |
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2nd February 2019, 13:42 | #54549 | Link |
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I've just checked and it's disabled already, so that is not the solution.
I'm going to try if this maybe make a difference : In the Devices section under the "Generic PnP Monitor", you can choose "Display modes" and the current setting is : Switch to matching display mode...when playback starts So maybe it makes a difference when I choose ...when media player goes fullscreen ? I'll try it in a moment and will post the result For now I'll leave the "restore original display mode...when mediaplayer is closed" as it is. I've just checked and I'm using MadVR 0.92.17, that's the latest version, right ? Update : Nothing changed, I had hoped, that would do something Last edited by Soxbrother; 2nd February 2019 at 13:54. |
2nd February 2019, 14:12 | #54550 | Link |
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I've adjusted the resolution of my 4ktv to 1920x1080, now the video starts almost instantly.
I've also disabled the "Switch to matching display mode" setting, because it has no use now. But now I'm wondering if the video would look better at it's native 1080p resolution or if it would look better even on the 4k resolution. Any thoughts on that ? |
2nd February 2019, 14:29 | #54551 | Link |
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New problem : inside Mediaportal, the font size is too big ( windows screen settings is at 150%)
Now when I set it at 100%, everything is as it should be, but now I only hear audio and have no video, What to do now ? |
2nd February 2019, 15:26 | #54552 | Link | |
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You are somewhat misunderstanding how a static tone curve works. The display will take the static metadata value (usually 1,000 nits mastering peak or 4,000 nits mastering peak) and plot a single tone curve for the entire movie. That curve never changes; it is static, so the entire movie will roll-off the brightness depending on the aggressiveness of the chosen curve. In other words, the whole movie will be slightly darker than intended (tone mapped). There is no relief from this tone curve at any point. The display will follow the PQ curve up to a certain point and add a knee point where the roll-off begins. A dynamic tone curve will use the source peak as the target for the tone curve, but it will decrease and increase the roll-off as the scene peak changes. So scenes within the brightness of the display (700 nits) can be shown 1:1 with the PQ curve because tone mapping is not required (tone mapping could be disabled or significantly reduced). Scenes that are close to the source peak should look similar to a static tone curve and would use a standard roll-off. The tone mapping roll-off is necessary to present the intended contrast of the scene to make it look HDR when the display lacks the necessary luminance to show all values within its available dynamic range. It is a no-no to go above the PQ curve at any time, but going below the PQ curve is what is considered tone mapping. I think the area LG needs to improve upon compared to the competition is in blending these changes in brightness. They may be moving the knee point for the tone curve too often or are doing a poor job of fluctuating the roll-off. I haven't heard of any accounts from the reviews I've read of the display boosting the brightness above the PQ curve. The only display that I know does that is the Samsung Q9FN, which consistently boosts 0-100 nits. madVR is also using a dynamic tone curve with brightness changes, but those changes may be masked better. However, the fluctuations in brightness will be more noticeable when using a range of 0-700 nits than 0-120 nits, so dynamic tone mapping on a bright display can always be capable of some visible shifts in brightness. This is done to keep the image as bright as possible throughout the presentation inline with the original mastered values. No one likes a dark image, so tone mapping compression should be minimized.
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HOW TO - Set up madVR for Kodi DSPlayer & External Media Players Last edited by Warner306; 2nd February 2019 at 16:09. |
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2nd February 2019, 16:40 | #54553 | Link | |
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And it's not even good at revealing otherwise clipped highlights. MadVR does a much better job at this. |
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2nd February 2019, 16:45 | #54554 | Link |
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I don't think this is intended, but it could be doing some monkey business with the source, or you need an HDR calibration. Like I said, the newer the model, the better. Panasonic and Sony are known to be better at this.
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HOW TO - Set up madVR for Kodi DSPlayer & External Media Players |
2nd February 2019, 17:10 | #54555 | Link | |
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Quote:
It seems exactly like the "dynamic contrast" for SDR TVs
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2nd February 2019, 17:45 | #54556 | Link | |
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2nd February 2019, 19:11 | #54557 | Link |
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I think Warner306 hit it on the head when you mentioned that LG does not do a good job at moving between scenes. The impact can be very jarring. The latest firmware fixed a little of that and it's a LOT better than it used to be. They're either reacting too quickly to a brightness change or not quickly enough....I don't know which. But the effect in some scenes pulls you right out of the movie you're watching. That is my one gripe with it. Now maybe that's a symptom of what j82k is talking about with LG going above the PQ curve, I don't really know. I doubt the 2018 owners will see much more improvement now that the 2019 models are coming but we can hope.
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2nd February 2019, 20:43 | #54558 | Link |
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I think it's intentional. People often praise the HDR brightness of LG Oleds compared to other manufacturers, even calling sonys dim. I think the reason for that is that LG intentionally made the PQ curve brighter with dynamic tonemapping (which is enabled by default) to stand out when people compare TVs in the showroom and those who display HDR correctly will look dim in comparison. They probably learned that marketing strategy from samsung.
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3rd February 2019, 11:25 | #54559 | Link | |
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- absolute vs relative standards (I thought they're all relative) -- hence viewing environment considarations -- display device flaws: abl, local dimming - color gamut volume: 90% of DCI-P3 is basically Rec709 More and more I read about it, I have less intention to replace my current SDR TV.
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3rd February 2019, 14:17 | #54560 | Link | |
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It's up to madvr enthusaists to put a stop to PQ curve cheating. !!
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Tags |
direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling |
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