New Quantization Matrices - EQM V3 series (last update: 04/02/2005 - V3ULR)

[Sharktooth]

Originally posted by Xpa
XviD Configuration -> Aspect Ratio:
"...Aspect Ratio is written to mpeg-4 bit stream,
but infortunately is likely to be ignored if video stream is encapsulated in a general-purpose container (lke .avi, .ogm, .mkv)
Therfore, be aware that using different aspect ratio than default might be ignored by some players, especially when decoded on Windows.
USE AT YOUR OWN RISK.

Maybe i expressed wrong with some things or repetitive....

Well, it does not say "Xvid does not support anamorphic encoding"... coz this is anamorphing encoding

Well, at this point i have no doubt to do with this video.

Thanks for your time (and patience ) responding me with this matter.

np

[dungweaver]

Just reporting in excellent results with eqm_v3ulr_rev3 in day to day usage.

Currently using Q=4 single pass with AQ off and QR(2,31,2,31,2,31).

Source = digital TV (SD or PD) mpeg2, resized to 592x336.
Gspot reports a video of 485 kbps. Qf of 0.098. Image quality is excellent.

This was a documentary with a fair bit of action. Nearly 28 minutes of show into only 124 MB.

Sharktooth does this surprise you? Anyone else getting results like this? I am just a wee bit sceptical; seems too good to be true.

Sharktooth I've just tried your EQM V3HR and the results were great for a 1800kbit encode. But I'm just wondering if the Trellis bug still exists (the one with the two workarounds).
If I use one of your workarounds either disabling Trellis Quantization OR limit the MinQ and MaxQ to 2-31 respectively, wouldn't I lose quality in the process.
I always have kept Trellis Quantization checked since I was under the assumption it gave a quality boost.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that I'am using Xvid 1.10 b2 04042005

[Didée]

Originally Posted by bugmenotwillyou

If I use one of your workarounds either disabling Trellis Quantization OR limit the MinQ and MaxQ to 2-31 respectively, wouldn't I lose quality in the process.

Limiting quantizers to 2/31 is not a workaround. It is the recommended setting.

In fact, the default of 1/31 is a workaround. (For XviD newbies whining about undersized encodes.)

You won't loose quality by not using quant 1 in a 2-pass scenario. However by disabling trellis, you probably would - but only a tiny bit.

[Sharktooth]

@dungweaver: well, ULR stands for a ultra low rates. however nice to see it's good for you too

@bugmenotwillyou: i already answered you by PM, however, as you can see, Didée said the same thing.

Thanks for the prompt replies guys.
The V3HR CQM is perfect then for my encodes.

[Teegedeck]

Originally Posted by bugmenotwillyou

Sharktooth I've just tried your EQM V3HR and the results were great for a 1800kbit encode. But I'm just wondering if the Trellis bug still exists (the one with the two workarounds).
[...]
I always have kept Trellis Quantization checked since I was under the assumption it gave a quality boost.

Nope, no Trellis bug anywhere in sight. And with a matrix like v3UHR or SixOfNine at 1800 kbps for full-res-encodes I am quite positive that Trellis actually is a huge quality-advantage in a two-pass scenario.

Not sure about how it summs up with v3HR and whatever resolution you use.

Originally Posted by Teegedeck

Nope, no Trellis bug anywhere in sight. And with a matrix like v3UHR or SixOfNine at 1800 kbps for full-res-encodes I am quite positive that Trellis actually is a huge quality-advantage in a two-pass scenario.

Not sure about how it summs up with v3HR and whatever resolution you use.

Yeah your post in another thread about Trellis bug being "fixed months ago" was the one that prompted me to ask that question of whether the Trellis bug still existed for Sharktooth's CQMs, so kudos to you.

The EQM v3UHR that you suggested would be too much for my 1800kbps encodes for my 704xXXX anamorphic encodes, no? I usually like to fit 2 movies on 1 DVDR so 1800kbps to 2100kbps would be in the range of EQM v3HR, I would have thought?

I had the impression that EQM v3UHR was for ~2500kbps-4000kpbs (full-res or HD encodes) and EQM v3HR was for 1600kpbs-~2500kbps (assuming using full-res or slightly lower) or is my thinking flawed?

[Sharktooth]

Well, it all depends on source resolution, framerate, compressibility etc.
However in general 1600-2300 is a good range for HR, 1300-1900 for LR, 2300+ UHR.
I may join HR and LR in one matrix in the near future...

[Beave]

What would be your suggestions for HDTV encodes to 960x528 @ 1500-2000 bitrates? The source is as usually noisier and blockier than DVD sources. I find 6of9=24 not too suitable for this task. Would the ULR matrix fit the profile? I like a sharp picture, but I dislike artifacts from too low bitrates.

[Heini011]

Hi Beave,

denoise the hd clip (for much noise use mvdenoise from mvtools) and use eqmv3hr instead of 6o9. (but eqmv3hr is soften the clip a little bit.)

greetings.

[Sharktooth]

Maybe you want to use EQM V2 (autogk sharp matrix) for that purpose since it scales very well... but if it's "too much", try ULR (theoretically it shoud do it even better). However ensure you denoise the source without loosing details (read: use the right filters and not just the first denoiser you find on the web).

[Soulhunter]

@ Beave

If you dont mind low fps, give FFT3D a try!


Bye

[Sharktooth]

The reason is HD eats up a lot of bitrate and having some extra compressibility by denoising would ensure a much better encode without wasting an enormous amount of bits...

[Didée]

True. However my fear is, there are people out there that brute-filter so much compressibility on their HD sources that, in the end, they're not encoding HD anymore, but just big framesizes ...

[Soulhunter]

Yeah, thats the reason why i suggested FFT3D for the denoising... ^^

It kills most of the noise without removing too much of the "real" details !!!


Bye

[BigDid]

Hello all,

Not enough practice to be affirmative, but I am actually testing fft3d compared to peachsmoother.
fft3d default (sigma=2) is comparable to peach default but really retains more details.
For more compression, try sigma=3.

Sizes of one of my testing (original mpg2 being 110672ko, encoded to 75% xvid, one pass):
Avi no filter : 30890ko, 13,83fps
Avi peach() : 28456ko, 13,14fps
Avi fft3d s=2: 28378ko, 8,38fps
Avi fft3d s=3: 26764ko, 8,44fps

There is also a quicker gpu version of fft3d for those having an ati radeon 95xx or higher or geforce 5xxx at least or any gpu having hardware supporting for dx90c.

Did

[Beave]

Thanks, I usually only put removegrain() in the avs. I just got a few eps with extrem grain in it. I only get 25% compressibility without denoisers.
I tried lremovedust, but only lremovedust(17,10) got rid of most of the noise and got compressibility to 60%. But now the clip looks pretty washed out. I will try your suggested filters. Maybe using the right matrix I could get away with 45%.

But usually the hd stuff isn't as bad so removing some of the filmgrain should help the picture quality. I just wondered if there is a matrix, that is especially good for noisy and blocky sources.

So FFT3D seems to be the latest in denoising? It would be great to remove some of the noise without loosing detail, which is the main reason for HDTV anyways.

[Soulhunter]

FFT3D gives excellent results as long you dont "overdo" it... For most DVD sources simgma=1 should be already enough, but if you cope with very grainy/noisy stuff you'd need much higher sigma values to kill the noise... Well, the catch is that FFT3D produces slight grid artifacts if you use too high sigma values! So, using FFT3D with sigma=2 + some mild tempo-spatial denoising afterwards could be better than using FFT3D with sigma=3 alone for example... ^^


Bye

[Backflip]

Originally Posted by Sharktooth

Let's say you have a 2.35:1 AR movie to compress.
Cropping the black bars (from the original 720x576 res) results in a 720x432 picture with an incorrect aspect ratio.
Generally to get it right the 432 is resized to 308 (nearest mod16 value) so you obtain a 720*308 picture that looks with the correct AR.
Doing this you're loosing pixels in favor of a correct looking picture.
There's another way (anamorphic encode) to get the correct AR without loosing pixels and almost all DVDs movies use this technique to NOT loose definition.

Edit - cleaned up

I believe I get the way to correctly encode anamorphically while keeping all picture info and AR -- Set AR in the XviD codec (240,100 (2.40:1) for example), crop out black bars (only down to 720 x 432) giving 0% AR error. Set Input Pixel PAR to 1:1.

I encoded The Pacifier DVD with:
2-pass, EQM V3ULR rev 3, QPEL, B-VOPs - 2/1.5/1, Packed Bitstream, Closed GOV, Chroma Motion, Motion Search Precision (Ultra High), VHQ Mode (4) Chroma Optimizer and Trellis Quantization (1,31), Lanczos

It had a compressibility of 87% at 720 x 432 anamorphic for a 1404 MB target size. High, but not too high I guess.

To me it came out better than the 1404 MB/MPEG matrix encode. Particularly the first boat/water scene (which is probably the worst scene to encode). It's not as blocky.

Ended up with a 1.37 GB (1,475,354,624 bytes) AVI and muxed into MKV @ 702MB + 701MB with MMG.

Used same settings for Assault On Precinct 13 DVD except this movie was less compressible @ 77%. Got an ever so slightly oversized file 1.37 GB (1,475,850,240 bytes) AVI which I'm not entirely sure about. MMG will only output 703 + 700 MB (with settings at 702 MB (2 file max.)

Anyways I'm pleased with the results, thank you