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Old 12th February 2020, 13:06   #2121  |  Link
NikosD
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Netflix starts using AV1 initially on Android mobile for offline viewing, leveraging dAV1d 10 bit optimized app.

Interesting.

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-- Netflix --

Today we are excited to announce that Netflix has started streaming AV1 to our Android mobile app. AV1 is a high performance, royalty-free video codec that provides 20% improved compression efficiency over our VP9† encodes. AV1 is made possible by the wide-ranging industry commitment of expertise and intellectual property within the Alliance for Open Media (AOMedia), of which Netflix is a founding member.

Our support for AV1 represents Netflix’s continued investment in delivering the most efficient and highest quality video streams. For our mobile environment, AV1 follows on our work with VP9, which we released as part of our mobile encodes in 2016 and further optimized with shot-based encodes in 2018.

While our goal is to roll out AV1 on all of our platforms, we see a good fit for AV1’s compression efficiency in the mobile space where cellular networks can be unreliable, and our members have limited data plans. Selected titles are now available to stream in AV1 for customers who wish to reduce their cellular data usage by enabling the “Save Data” feature.

Our AV1 support on Android leverages the open-source dav1d decoder built by the VideoLAN, VLC, and FFmpeg communities and sponsored by the Alliance for Open Media. Here we have optimized dav1d so that it can play Netflix content, which is 10-bit color. In the spirit of making AV1 widely available, we are sponsoring an open-source effort to optimize 10-bit performance further and make these gains available to all.

As codec performance improves over time, we plan to expand our AV1 usage to more use cases and are now also working with device and chipset partners to extend this into hardware.
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Old 13th February 2020, 05:04   #2122  |  Link
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Surely streaming only low bitrate SD, with just acceptable quality (since it's a low bandwidth opt-in feature).

Still, a great fit for davi1d!
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Old 13th February 2020, 12:09   #2123  |  Link
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Cool that they seem to go 10 bit even for mobile. It's time companies start to see 10 bit as a coding tool increasing compression instead of using it for HDR only. I would hope they start using AV1 10 bit for desktop, too. I'm temporarily on a slow (5~6 Mbps) connection and there can be horrible banding (among other artifacts) when viewing via Chrome (I assume H.264 8 bit).
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Old 13th February 2020, 19:59   #2124  |  Link
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I have finished three encodes matching up "vmaf_without_preprocessing" against x265 placebo, and I am completely stunned.
The new vmaf tuning has definitely put libaom in first place not only in metrics but clearly in visual quality!
I hope they will manage to speed it up in the future
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Old 13th February 2020, 20:43   #2125  |  Link
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Surely streaming only low bitrate SD, with just acceptable quality (since it's a low bandwidth opt-in feature).

Still, a great fit for davi1d!
There's no HW DRM for AV1 on any mobile device yet, so premium content above SD would presumably not be allowed in any case.
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Old 14th February 2020, 02:45   #2126  |  Link
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Interesting, correct me if I'm wrong but it's not really a matter of DRM "supporting AV1" as much as it is AV1 having a defined mapping into fMP4 with common encryption (CENC), right? Once that's all set then any DRM that supports CENC would work, be it software Widevine L3 or hardware Widevine L1 or PlayReady SL3000 etc?

Is that mapping still really not done for AV1??
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Old 14th February 2020, 12:07   #2127  |  Link
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AVIF for Next-Generation Image Coding
https://netflixtechblog.com/avif-for...ng-b1d75675fe4
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TL; DR
We need an alternative to JPEG that
a) is widely supported
b) has better compression efficiency and
c) has a wider feature set. We believe AV1 Image File Format (AVIF) has the potential.
Using the framework we have open sourced, AVIF compression efficiency can be seen at work and compared against a whole range of image codecs that came before it.
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Old 14th February 2020, 17:46   #2128  |  Link
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That was a great posting, tbh. AVIF shows serious advantages over WebP which I think is the only JPEG alternative format that's gotten any traction on the web from what I can tell.
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Old 14th February 2020, 22:39   #2129  |  Link
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Phononix has 16core verses 32core vs 48c vs 64c vs 64c+SMT scaling comparisons in dav1d v0.5.0 and SVT-AV1 v0.8 on Windows 10 Pro, Win10 Enterprise, and Clear Linux (all on a Threadripper 3990X):
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...ws-linux&num=3


And regarding their choice of Linux distro:
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One of the interesting takeaways from my pre-launch briefing with AMD on the Ryzen Threadripper 3990X was AMD representatives actually recommending Clear Linux for use on this 64-core / 128-thread HEDT processor and the platform to which they've found the best performance. Yet, Clear Linux is an Intel open-source project.

The Clear Linux recommendation for the Threadripper 3990X was hardly a surprise to me given my experience with the platform, just a bit surprising AMD representatives acknowledging the Intel open-source software creation during a briefing. We've been benchmarking Clear Linux for years and were the ones to initially shine the public spotlight on its impressive performance capabilities -- that includes for AMD platforms too with numerous tests on different platforms we've performed the past few years.
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Old 15th February 2020, 23:31   #2130  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Blue_MiSfit View Post
That was a great posting, tbh. AVIF shows serious advantages over WebP which I think is the only JPEG alternative format that's gotten any traction on the web from what I can tell.
JPEG XL is a strong contender. It seems to have buy in from a similarly diverse set of implementors as AV1, but one key advantage is that it can seamlessly and losslessly upgrade existing JPEG content, which would probably make it attractive to web deployment even if it didn't offer anything else. If it's well integrated with HTTP2 and browsers then progressive loading is a second "killer app" it provides and again that alone could probably justify its rollout as the subjective improvement in partial loading display would be dramatic even if the objective improvements were equal or even negative.
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Old 16th February 2020, 18:09   #2131  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Blue_MiSfit View Post
Interesting, correct me if I'm wrong but it's not really a matter of DRM "supporting AV1" as much as it is AV1 having a defined mapping into fMP4 with common encryption (CENC), right? Once that's all set then any DRM that supports CENC would work, be it software Widevine L3 or hardware Widevine L1 or PlayReady SL3000 etc?

Is that mapping still really not done for AV1??
The mapping is done. But it is really challenging to robustly secure a software-only decoder. It can be done in Trust Zone, but not all devices allow full CPU use for that. And there is still more risk SW being hacked; so much fuzz testing from malformed bitstreams is required, and DRM robustness competes with decode for compute optimization.

Major studios generally require HW DRM integrated with HW decoders for premium HD content. And lots of platforms straight up doing allow their SW codecs to use the HW DRM features. For example, iOS has HEVC software decoders for all device supported by the iOS version that introduced HEVC playback. But FairPlay DRM straight up won't work on the device without the HW decoder.
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Old 16th February 2020, 19:00   #2132  |  Link
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Originally Posted by dapperdan View Post
JPEG XL is a strong contender. It seems to have buy in from a similarly diverse set of implementors as AV1, but one key advantage is that it can seamlessly and losslessly upgrade existing JPEG content, which would probably make it attractive to web deployment even if it didn't offer anything else. If it's well integrated with HTTP2 and browsers then progressive loading is a second "killer app" it provides and again that alone could probably justify its rollout as the subjective improvement in partial loading display would be dramatic even if the objective improvements were equal or even negative.
HEIF is also a good contender here, and is very well supported in the Apple ecosystem at least. Mostly as HEVC frames. That's the default way to shoot pictures on iPhones now.

But HEVC and patents. AV1 is a strong still image codec, and the patent exposure elminating all the interframe stuff is even smaller. Screen coding tools. And SW decode is a lot more feasible for just images, and DRM is rarely a requirement for them too.

Broad AVIF support in browsers seems like something that could happen quite quickly, and be of use with much less infrastructure than video. A PhotoShop export component and integration into ImageMagick and we'd be ready to go.
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Old 16th February 2020, 20:40   #2133  |  Link
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Broad AVIF support in browsers seems like something that could happen quite quickly, and be of use with much less infrastructure than video. A PhotoShop export component and integration into ImageMagick and we'd be ready to go.
Seems like a great fit, agreed. Dynamic server-side versioning of images with tools like ImageMagick is a common thing, so this would indeed be an easy win.

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Major studios generally require HW DRM integrated with HW decoders for premium HD content
Yep! I work for one of them

Quote:
FairPlay DRM straight up won't work on the device without the HW decoder
I actually didn't realize this, but it totally makes sense.

Last edited by Blue_MiSfit; 16th February 2020 at 20:42.
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Old 17th February 2020, 19:45   #2134  |  Link
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Is Dav1d likely to get significantly faster?
I tried it a bit in Firefox Nightly and there's a sizable gap to VP9 decoding in CPU usage (2x or more). I tried with 4k videos so the CPU usage would be more obvious.

Last edited by mzso; 17th February 2020 at 19:56.
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Old 17th February 2020, 20:59   #2135  |  Link
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Is Dav1d likely to get significantly faster?
Yes.

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I tried it a bit in Firefox Nightly and there's a sizable gap to VP9 decoding in CPU usage (2x or more). I tried with 4k videos so the CPU usage would be more obvious.
Could you elaborate on what sort of system (CPU chipset etc.), and where you got the content from? In particular, it'd be interesting to know the respective bitrates for the AV1 & VP9 files/streams, but knowing the encoder settings might also be somewhat useful.

Playback speed correlates a lot with bitrate. The 30% numbers that we've shown at conferences and in blogs are for same-quality encodes, where VP9 has a higher bitrate than AV1. If the files are same-bitrate, the performance difference goes up. On easy content, the postfilters also require a higher % of runtime (compared to e.g. inverse transform or predictors), and since AV1 has more postfilters, that means the difference will grow on low-complexity content, and will be smaller on high-complexity content. The 30% was also without film grain (since we assume the GPU will do that for free), but there is currently no browser that does that correctly yet.
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Old 17th February 2020, 21:23   #2136  |  Link
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Is Dav1d likely to get significantly faster?
I tried it a bit in Firefox Nightly and there's a sizable gap to VP9 decoding in CPU usage (2x or more). I tried with 4k videos so the CPU usage would be more obvious.
It'll get somewhat faster. But given equal levels of opimization, VP9 is going to decode a lot faster than AV1 beause AV1 is a lot more complex. This is how it always is. About every decade we get a new bitstream that offers an eventual ~50% reduction in bitrate for about a 100% increase in decoder complexity as long as you spend ~10x more on encoding to take avantage of all the new features.

Codec development is all about turning Moore's law improvements into better compression efficiency. There are all kinds of features that could have been used in AV1/HEVC/VVC that offer small improvements for bigger complexity requirements. And each generation it's a trade off for what a reasonable complexity cost is, and people design the most capable bitstream format within that reasonable decoder complexity envalope.

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Old 20th February 2020, 16:14   #2137  |  Link
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rav1e 0.3.1 released

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25-40% faster speed levels 2 to 5
This is accomplished by disabling costly coding tools
**Fine directional prediction
**Intra block transform splitting in inter frames
Encoding quality is slightly inferior (1-2%), but more in line with the target speed levels
https://github.com/xiph/rav1e/releases
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Old 23rd February 2020, 08:53   #2138  |  Link
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Unfortunately I didn't provide a test file that combined AVC 10bit and FLAC with other known-working codecs, like AVC 8bit + FLAC as well as AVC 10bit + AAC, so it's uncertain whether it's the AVC 10bit or the FLAC that the TV is unable to play back.
That's the thing about consumer electronics devices. The only way to really know if something works is to actually try it. Something can support all the individual components, but not in particular combinations. Something may work via streaming or an app but not as a file in the native player. Everything might work most of the time except if some esoteric parameter exceeds some internal limit even though it is permitted by the spec.

Something that works on a thing is easy. Something interesting that works on EVERYTHING is a nail-biting adventure.

Apologies for the off-topic post, but I just wanted to give an update on the final conclusion - I just confirmed today that FLAC audio is in fact supported (at least up to 192KHz 24bit, same goes for LPCM as 32float LPCM failed to work) and, as expected, it's the 10bit AVC (not a typo) that is completely unsupported on LG's 2019 OLEDs.


...though more surprising to me was that it not only supported multi-audio MKVs/MP4s with an according GUI-based audio track switcher, but even supported freaking SubStation Alpha subtitles in an MKV also with an according GUI-based toggle.


That is all, and I will refrain from going on about this subject farther.




BTW SmilingWolf, if you're reading this, I got to watch our waifu2x-upscaled UBW Vita OP the LG E9 OLED TV (65" model).

10/10 would recommend.
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Old 23rd February 2020, 23:17   #2139  |  Link
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No AV1 with Tiger Lake? I get that right?
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Old 24th February 2020, 06:25   #2140  |  Link
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No AV1 with Tiger Lake? I get that right?
Big delays might open an opportunity to add a decoder, but otherwise, it's going to be implemented in gpu, not fixed-function. It'll look the same to software, it just won't perform the same.
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