Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > Hardware & Software > Software players

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 22nd May 2020, 00:19   #59621  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,903
are you using film mode deinterlacing?
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd May 2020, 06:22   #59622  |  Link
70MM
X Cinema Projectionist NZ
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Auckland NZ
Posts: 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
are you using film mode deinterlacing?
I have that all turned off as I find it never finds the right setting for deinterlacing to be on or off.
70MM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd May 2020, 16:18   #59623  |  Link
brazen1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 331
Why would you possibly want to play a 25fps title at 24fps introducing judder and want to band-aid the mismatch?
__________________
HOW TO-Kodi 2D-3D-UHD (4k) HDR Guide Internal & External Players
W11 Pro 24H2 GTX960-4GB RGB 4:4:4 @Matched Refresh Rates 8,10,12bit
KODI 22 MPC-HC/BE 82" Q90R Denon S720W
brazen1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd May 2020, 17:00   #59624  |  Link
Klaus1189
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Bavaria
Posts: 1,666
Perhaps PAL DVDs which only support 25 Hz but not 24 Hz and to get the original framerate of the movie. I never did that myself, to much hassle and if done correctly from the DVD creator there isn‘t judder or anything, the movie is just a bit shorter. The creator adjusted the audio to match the faster video. Man, a bit to much only for a guess
Klaus1189 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd May 2020, 17:33   #59625  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,903
why would this add judder?
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd May 2020, 18:49   #59626  |  Link
brazen1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 331
No matter how you try to multiply 25, it is never going to equal a multiple of 24. I assume that would require pull down to make up the difference. I also assume when using pull down, judder is always introduced. If you can't view a panning scene or any scene for that matter, without the video stumbling and it isn't completely undeniably smooth as butter, I assume it's because of the judder introduced due to the mismatch in framerates.

If you asked your question to set me up for disaster, feel free to explain why rendering a 25fps at 24Hz is good idea.
__________________
HOW TO-Kodi 2D-3D-UHD (4k) HDR Guide Internal & External Players
W11 Pro 24H2 GTX960-4GB RGB 4:4:4 @Matched Refresh Rates 8,10,12bit
KODI 22 MPC-HC/BE 82" Q90R Denon S720W
brazen1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd May 2020, 19:36   #59627  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,903
you slow the audio down by ~4% that's how a pal dvd of 24 fps source are created by speeding audio up by ~4% to get 25p.

the frames are just displayed slower or faster in this case and reclock can undo this.

edit: nvidia user are most likely getting 3D back. your crys for help have been heard:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/37-vi...l#post59690830

Last edited by huhn; 22nd May 2020 at 19:39.
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd May 2020, 19:56   #59628  |  Link
brazen1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 331
Instead of band-aid using reclock, wouldn't it be best to enter highest resolution display modes in madVr which tells players to match refresh rates avoiding players switching and allow display to switch to matching refresh rate? OP wrote 25fps changes display to 50Hz as if that is a mismatch when it's actually a perfect multiple of 25 and would be correct. Correct without any need for reclock also.

Abandoned 3D after clinging for so many years a couple months ago. Sometimes I miss it. Most of the time I don't. Nice for those still using it though. Is it only available using Envy or is nVidia supplying drivers for everyone?
__________________
HOW TO-Kodi 2D-3D-UHD (4k) HDR Guide Internal & External Players
W11 Pro 24H2 GTX960-4GB RGB 4:4:4 @Matched Refresh Rates 8,10,12bit
KODI 22 MPC-HC/BE 82" Q90R Denon S720W
brazen1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd May 2020, 20:02   #59629  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,903
well the 4% audio difference are audiobile and it is a madVR feature. i simply never used it so i can't help. so there are good reasons to do this.

about 3d: read the post: ~"the next madVR HTPC build" so this should be this software. i don't know if he used the clues i showed him or did something totally different. i couldn't care less about 3D. i cared about the way to get it working again but i don't have this build.
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd May 2020, 05:10   #59630  |  Link
70MM
X Cinema Projectionist NZ
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Auckland NZ
Posts: 310
The reasons one like me may want to play all 23, 24 and 25 files as 24 (which madshi has built into madvr) is to prevent proj resyncing all the time.
Foe those that dont know, the JVCs are very very slow at resyncing, some 15 to 18 secs or more. My new NX9 is faster, but probably 10secs or so.
I run a small film club and use JRiver playlists almost similar as a commercial cinema does. I have an assortment of trailers, coming attractions, short films etc etc before the main feature.
Often these files can be a different mix of 23, 24, 25 or 29. Madshi has built into madvr all files 23, 24, 25 can be played at 24 as long as you tick that box and use reclock or videoclock.
JRiver has Videoclock built into it if one wants to use it, plus madvr is also included into it if one wants to use it.

Setting the three 23,24,25 and using videoclock plays the three all at 24, no projector resync required, no black screen, no 10sec/15secs wait missing the audio and video from the start of the next new file.
The files play through seamlessly just as they do in a cinema. However 29/60 material does require a resync as thats no good at 24
Its impossible to tell if the audio is speaded up or reduced a tiny amount. Maybe if it was a piece of music from a CD that one knows very very well one might know, but thats not the case with film.

As you can see this is not a feature that 99% of people would ever care about or need, but madshi obviously saw a reason for it, so good on him.
Someone like myself who is running a semi professional small theatre with mixed media wanting to play them from a playlist, without black long pauses and clipped audio from the start of a new file, its perfect...
It is a very good feature for a handfull but not for most. Projectors a terrible at resyncing, if they would sync as fast as a monitor then these features are of no use. I pray for the day that HDMI can resync fast!

Last edited by 70MM; 23rd May 2020 at 05:15.
70MM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd May 2020, 20:51   #59631  |  Link
el Filou
Registered User
 
el Filou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 896
Just my two cents but this may concern other people too: apart from this resync issue, sometimes also on TVs the 50p input mode has lesser quality than the 24p one. I have no idea about more recent sets, but on my Panasonic plasma I can see a clear quality difference in favour of 24p, and I even have to enable motion interpolation on 50p input if I don't want to have even worse quality, which sometimes brings artifacts. I still watch a lot of movies from TV which is 25 fps and to get better quality I slow them down and use 24p.
__________________
HTPC: Windows 10 22H2, MediaPortal 1, LAV Filters/ReClock/madVR. DVB-C TV, Panasonic GT60, Denon 2310, Core 2 Duo E7400 oc'd, GeForce 1050 Ti 536.40
el Filou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th May 2020, 06:02   #59632  |  Link
RXP
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 55
3D Fix Manager works great for enabling 3D MVC playback for me. I just tried it out on my GTX 1660 card and it works perfect. I was previously using the OU method for my 4k OLED, which preserved full resolution, but it eat up GPU massively and I lost auto switching to 3D. Madshi's probably done similar work arounds in a new script.

Edit: does anyone know if there's anyway I can select a profile rule based on an MVC source being played? The available documentation doesn't have any specific 3D MVC boolean. I'd like to switch to my MVC 3D LUT I took with the glasses in front of my meter for 3D MVC playback. I know I can add a file name rule, but not all my movies have 3D in their titles.

Last edited by RXP; 26th May 2020 at 13:30.
RXP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th May 2020, 22:29   #59633  |  Link
mclingo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,348
if you are upscaling everything else to 4k you could maybe do that with a resolution profile as MADVR outputs MVC 3D at 1080p to your TV as its locked at that, everything else will be 4k.
__________________
LG OLED EF950-YAM RX-V685-RYZEN 3600 - 16GBRAM - WIN10 RX 5700 - https://www.videohelp.com/software/madVR/old-versions
mclingo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th May 2020, 10:26   #59634  |  Link
Aleksoid1978
Registered User
 
Aleksoid1978's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Russia, Vladivostok
Posts: 2,783
Quote:
Originally Posted by RXP View Post
3D Fix Manager works great for enabling 3D MVC playback for me. I just tried it out on my GTX 1660 card and it works perfect. I was previously using the OU method for my 4k OLED, which preserved full resolution, but it eat up GPU massively and I lost auto switching to 3D. Madshi's probably done similar work arounds in a new script.

Edit: does anyone know if there's anyway I can select a profile rule based on an MVC source being played? The available documentation doesn't have any specific 3D MVC boolean. I'd like to switch to my MVC 3D LUT I took with the glasses in front of my meter for 3D MVC playback. I know I can add a file name rule, but not all my movies have 3D in their titles.
What system and driver use ?
__________________
AMD Ryzen 5 3600 /GIGABYTE B450 Gaming X /Patriot 32Gb@3200 /Kingston 500Gb M.2 /RTX 4060 /Samsung U28R550UQI /OLED Philips 55OLED707 /Yamaha RX-V471 + NS-555 + NS-C444 + NS-333 + YST-SW215
Aleksoid1978 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th May 2020, 12:39   #59635  |  Link
RXP
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 55
Thanks mclingo, that's a really good idea. I did go ahead and use a renaming tool to add 3D to all my movies as a suffix, but I have a ton on hard-drives that I know I'll forget to do. So that rule will help a lot.

I have a GTX 1660 card on latest drivers. It's a Ryzen 3 3200G. I don't think the CPU matters though. I bought the 1660 expecting it to never be 3D capable, so I'm very happy. The O/U work around worked great and actually visibily looked better for chroma on text but it was really eating the GPU. In the summer it makes the room too hot.

Really chuffed I can do a seperate 3D LUT for my glasses though. I assigned a keyboard shortcut to the regular LUT without glasses and the one with. It's a dramatic difference. Faces no longer have a green tint and gamma in low light looks way better.
RXP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th May 2020, 12:43   #59636  |  Link
Aleksoid1978
Registered User
 
Aleksoid1978's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Russia, Vladivostok
Posts: 2,783
RXP
Question - you 3D TV is only one in system or you have MONITOR + TV dual output ? If dual - what main - monitor or TV ?
About system - i'l mean Windows version ?

I try to enable 3d frame-packing on TV(it's second) and can't, working only on 3D TV is primary ((.
__________________
AMD Ryzen 5 3600 /GIGABYTE B450 Gaming X /Patriot 32Gb@3200 /Kingston 500Gb M.2 /RTX 4060 /Samsung U28R550UQI /OLED Philips 55OLED707 /Yamaha RX-V471 + NS-555 + NS-C444 + NS-333 + YST-SW215

Last edited by Aleksoid1978; 27th May 2020 at 13:02.
Aleksoid1978 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th May 2020, 16:53   #59637  |  Link
RXP
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 55
I do have multiple monitors hooked up but whenever I sit down to watch my TV I only output to my TV.

It is a pain though. I have 3 displays. 2 monitors and the OLED. I recall in the old days of ATI Graphics cards with the SVHS outputs (am I showing my age?!) we could assign a key for certain display configurations. NVIDIA doesn't offer that option and the Win Key + P doesn't work the same with multiple displays.
RXP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th May 2020, 17:47   #59638  |  Link
BDFan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by RXP View Post
The available documentation doesn't have any specific 3D MVC boolean.
3D MVC boolean - 3D
Example
Code:
if (3D)
BDFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th May 2020, 07:50   #59639  |  Link
RXP
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 55
Thanks! I didn't see that listed in the forum documentation that MadVR links to. Can you give me the link?
RXP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th May 2020, 12:30   #59640  |  Link
toki
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 69
I'm not sure what happened, but I just updated windows 10 and my graphics card, Nvidia 2080ti and when I turn on MPC-HC graphics shoots to full load and I can't get any sound out of it. I am using madVR as my renderer. Everything looks to be set as it was, but something is absolutely wrong here, and I don't know what it is. I just tried playing a movie in VLC and it played back fine. I don't have it set up for madVR or movies or anything. This is really really strange. I've never had MPC do this after an update. Well, the sound was sanear being reset, but I still haven't found the video culprit yet. Even on plain vanilla settings I'm still getting stuttering, this even with no madVR running.

Last edited by toki; 28th May 2020 at 13:39.
toki is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 13:13.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.