MadVR in use with LG OLED Thread - Page 47

chros · 23rd October 2020, 10:43

I have 2 questions about creating BT.709 SDR 3dlut, if you can help me out with them:

B8 is set up: ifs dark, Black Level High, gamma 2.4, warm2, Wide gamut (-> 97% DCI-P3)
Whole chain is set up: Full RGB 12bit

1. in madvr the infamous Calibration > "this display is already calibrated": DCI-P3, power gamma 2.4
- is this setting is correct???

I noticed if I modify this option the output also will be changed eve when 3dlut is used.
This is really confusing: does this setting has any effect during profiling with DisplayCal? If no, then why does it have during playback when the generated 3dlut is used???

@Manni, if you can shed a light on this ...

2. about this "issue"
And I noticed that it works the same way when I don't do calibration either (I haven't noticed this before, e.g. a year ago).
- is it because the black level is 0?

Thanks

VBB · 23rd October 2020, 19:32

I wonder what's going on with Florian. He posts very rarely on his own forum, and he hasn't updated DisplayCAL in almost a year.

chros · 23rd October 2020, 20:46

Maybe his software is perfect?

Magik Mark · 30th October 2020, 11:24

Guys, any comment on the latest Nvidia driver v457.09? Does it still switches from hdr to sdr when gui of the player is activated?

VBB · 30th October 2020, 18:24

I installed it last night, but didn't have time to test HDR. Will do so a bit later. I think Nvidia considers this more of a feature than a bug

SamuriHL · 30th October 2020, 22:08

I haven't had time to install it yet but tonight is movie night (non-HDR since I can't seem to find a copy of The Crow in 4K anywhere sigh) but I will at least update the drivers before watching that and give it a quick test with HDR. (And if I get a minute I'll drive it through the fury as well and check that metadata isn't broken. Sad that this is something we need to do on every release now)

SamuriHL · 30th October 2020, 22:23

All is well with the latest driver in regards to HDR as far as I can see. metadata is good and no change to overlay dropping to SDR as seen before.

VBB · 30th October 2020, 22:46

Thanks for testing!

Magik Mark · 31st October 2020, 00:04

Thanks for testing!

mark0077 · 31st October 2020, 03:47

Guys,feel free to delete if this is deemed as a duplicate post as I posted it in the madVR thread, but it seems from what I can see to be either Nvidia or LG related, so posting the same details below as I posted in the madVR thread. All LG inputs welcome.

I have had awful trouble getting madVR to play nicely with my system when it comes to HDR playback. I have the following setup. If anyone could help it would be greatly appreciated.

GPU: GTX 980 with 456.71 drivers
Display: LG C9 65"
madVR: latest beta with the hdr tone mapping section
Player: Latest beta mpc-be
Windows HDR Setting: Off
Nvidia Display Mode: 3840 x 2160 x 23Hz (any hz reproduces the issues). YCbCr444 Limited, 8bpc

madVR / LAV Filters play SDR flawlessly as they always have. With the LG C9 it is well documented that at least in SDR mode, it shows a lot less banding in YCbCr444 8 bpc mode which I have found to be very true, which is what I intend to use for all content for now. The following issues don't happen in RGB Full range mode, only YCbCr444 Limited mode.

So the problems start when playing HDR content with madVR, the following two issues happen.

Note: I have bought numerous brands of HDMI cable including two brands of HDMI 2.1 cables, even though I know the GTX 980 cannot use them to their full extent. So to me on my fourth cable from HDMI 2.0 to 2.1 across numerous brands, I think I can say I have ruled that out.

1) madVR hdr set to "passthrough HDR to display" with "send HDR metadata to the display".
When madVR starts, and the HDR icon appears at the top right of the LG display, the screen goes almost completely green (I know it sounds like a cable, but believe me, it must be something else). When I return out of HDR mode (close the player) it returns to normal, the desktop is no longer green.

When I switch my display to HDR mode from anything else, the a) HDRSwitch tool, from b) Windows HDR settings or c) from games, this green screen / tint doesn't appear. Only when triggered via madVR does it happen.

Can it be sending something else in the "send HDR metadata to the display" that for some reason conflicts with YCbCr 444 and is not meant for that mode?

As mentioned, this doesn't occur in RGB Full range mode, the display never goes any strange colors in that mode. It can do 60hz RGB 8-bit without issues, albeit with the extra banding everyone knows about with these screens.

2) madVR hdr set to "tone map HDR using pixel shaders".
When madVR starts, it obviously leaves the screen in SDR mode, which is as expected. The image shown now looks good (not green) when in windowed mode. When I double click the screen and go fullscreen (not full screen exclusive, just windowed fullscreen), the image goes almost completely black. I can just about see the brightest content on screen. To note here, when this happens, the Ctrl-J content/output shows exactly the same details before/after.

Something as basic as right clicking the display, when in fullscreen, again triggers the image to show the proper black levels, and the Ctrl-J output still remains the same, even the "D3D11 fullscreen windowed (8-bit)" string. When turning off the right click menu, the image again returns to almost completely black, although I can see the shapes moving around.

When I switch off "use Direct3D 11 for presentation" in the general settings, this behaviour stops. D3D9 doesn't seem to show this second issue. Do you think this means its an NVidia issue/madVR issue or something configured wrong on my side thats affecting D3D11.

Again this second issue doesn't happen with RGB Full range mode, even in Direct D3D11.

VBB · 31st October 2020, 06:12

Mark, I replied to you yesterday in the main thread. Did you see it?

mark0077 · 1st November 2020, 14:34

Thanks VBB, yes using 16-235 isn't really an option for me as I use the PC for both HTPC and also "normal" PC use. I actually think I found something that might help RGB Full 8-bit 0-255 mode band less. Maybe you guys are already aware of it. Its to enable the correct nvidia dithering setting here.

https://hub.displaycal.net/forums/to...th-windows-os/

When I import the following into the correct area of my registry (its the 8-bit temporal dithering), and restart the nvidia drivers using CRU, the banding is good now to my eyes, in RGB mode. Do you guys mind trying this? Does this mean we no longer have to recommend using YCBCR 444?

Code:

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\nvlddmkm\State\DisplayDatabase\GSMC0A016843009_01_07E3_8E]
"DitherRegistryKey"=hex:db,01,00,00,10,00,00,00,01,01,01,04,f3,00,00,00

huhn · 1st November 2020, 14:39

"this" (different tool) has been tested and it's not effecting madVR positively it can only affect it negatively because madVR has it's own dithering and dithering is made to lower bit deep.

the desktops is a bit different but is rendered in 8 bit and dithering 8 bit to 8 bit is doing nothing.

mark0077 · 1st November 2020, 14:57

Yeah I really don't know what this is doing. I thought the same, with the desktop at 8-bit, what would 8-bit temporal dithering be doing. But it does at least do something on the desktop. I have a black to white gradient set as my desktop wallpaper to test this. When the registry key is not there you can see the noticeable banding patterns. When I tried a few settings, I took the notes below, all looking bad except for the 8 bit temporal one.

Maybe we need to come up with a way to test this with madVR to see does it negatively impact it. I'll try to think of a good way to test this.

Code:

No registry key present - bad
Key present, but set to "disabled" - bad
Key present, and set to "default" - bad
Key present, and set to "8 bit temporal" - good, few very slight bands
Key present, and set to "10 bit temporal" - not bad but more bands than 8 bit temporal

huhn · 1st November 2020, 15:40

there are ways to test this with madVR and there is a "much" better tool too.

take this image: http://www.bealecorner.org/red/test-...ient-16bit.png and load it in madVR

put the desktop to 8 bit make sure madVR is outputting 10 bit dithering option in madVR isn't that important for this test beware newer test build will not output 10 bit with nvidia when the desktop is 8 bit.

now you look at the green part of this image with temporal dithering in my test it "flickers"(it's temporal it'S made to "flicker"..).

mark0077 · 1st November 2020, 16:00

OK cool. I'm testing that png in madVR at the moment, but with the latest madVR beta, so I can't see any green flickering with nvidia set to temporal 8-bit. Even with the display settings in madVR set to "10 bit or higher". Is this what you see, flickering? Maybe its because as you say, madVR will output 8-bit if it sees the display is currently set to 8. I found some old doom9 threads where people link to a tool to set the dithering settings (very handy) and those discussions seem to be saying the nvidia dithering doesn't affect madVR output, only the desktop. Did you find that in your tests? I can't yet see a downside to using nvidias dithering although I don't know what its really doing to be honest. I wish we had an nvidia contact who could explain why it subjectively at least, makes the desktop look better when its set to dither.

VBB · 1st November 2020, 19:25

I did a lot of testing with that tool you mentioned (created by a Dutch guy over at AVS). Used to be command line only, but it has evolved since: https://github.com/Maassoft/ColorControl

Anyway, by default, Nvidia drivers dither always except when set to RGB full. That's why you had to enable it and found that it makes a bit of a difference.

mark0077 · 1st November 2020, 19:47

Ah ok that makes sense, and explains why YCbCr 444 always subjectively looked smoother on gradients. Windows must internally have a 10 or 12 bit pipeline that needs dithering to output at the end in 8 bit. But that's pure speculation on my part. I have not yet seen a downside to enabling the dithering anyways in RGB mode.

oldpainlesskodi · 5th November 2020, 12:36

Just setting my new LG OLED55BX6LB - oh my!.....blown away.

flaviowolff · 5th November 2020, 12:54

Hey, guys, a quick noobie question: whats the benefit of settings madvr to change the output resolution to 4k23p, compared to straight 4k60hz, considering that the TV has true cinema on?
I'm not using smooth motion, because 50% of my viewing is Netflix and I don't want different motion quality between madvr and Netflix (this would drive me nuts).
Thanks!

23rd October 2020, 10:43	#921 \| Link
chros Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 2,323	Creating SDR 3dlut with DisplayCal I have 2 questions about creating BT.709 SDR 3dlut, if you can help me out with them: B8 is set up: ifs dark, Black Level High, gamma 2.4, warm2, Wide gamut (-> 97% DCI-P3) Whole chain is set up: Full RGB 12bit 1. in madvr the infamous Calibration > "this display is already calibrated": DCI-P3, power gamma 2.4 - is this setting is correct??? I noticed if I modify this option the output also will be changed eve when 3dlut is used. This is really confusing: does this setting has any effect during profiling with DisplayCal? If no, then why does it have during playback when the generated 3dlut is used??? @Manni, if you can shed a light on this ... 2. about this "issue" And I noticed that it works the same way when I don't do calibration either (I haven't noticed this before, e.g. a year ago). - is it because the black level is 0? Thanks __________________ Ryzen 5 2600,Asus Prime b450-Plus,16GB,MSI GTX 1060 Gaming X 6GB(v398.18),Win10 LTSC 1809,MPC-BEx64+LAV+MadVR,Yamaha RX-A870,LG OLED77G2(2160p@23/24/25/29/30/50/59/60Hz) \| madvr config

23rd October 2020, 19:32	#922 \| Link
VBB Registered User Join Date: May 2016 Location: Long Beach, CA, USA Posts: 620	I wonder what's going on with Florian. He posts very rarely on his own forum, and he hasn't updated DisplayCAL in almost a year. __________________ Henry \| LG OLED65C7P \| Denon AVR-X3500H \| ELAC Uni-Fi x7 \| ELAC Debut 2.0 SUB3030 x2 \| NVIDIA SHIELD TV Pro 2019 \| Plex

23rd October 2020, 20:46	#923 \| Link
chros Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 2,323	Maybe his software is perfect? __________________ Ryzen 5 2600,Asus Prime b450-Plus,16GB,MSI GTX 1060 Gaming X 6GB(v398.18),Win10 LTSC 1809,MPC-BEx64+LAV+MadVR,Yamaha RX-A870,LG OLED77G2(2160p@23/24/25/29/30/50/59/60Hz) \| madvr config

30th October 2020, 11:24	#924 \| Link
Magik Mark Registered User Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 666	Guys, any comment on the latest Nvidia driver v457.09? Does it still switches from hdr to sdr when gui of the player is activated? __________________ Asus ProArt Z790 - 13th Gen Intel i9 - RTX 3080 - DDR5 64GB Predator - LG OLED C9 - Yamaha A3030 - Windows 11 x64 - PotPlayerr - Lav - MadVR

30th October 2020, 18:24	#925 \| Link
VBB Registered User Join Date: May 2016 Location: Long Beach, CA, USA Posts: 620	I installed it last night, but didn't have time to test HDR. Will do so a bit later. I think Nvidia considers this more of a feature than a bug __________________ Henry \| LG OLED65C7P \| Denon AVR-X3500H \| ELAC Uni-Fi x7 \| ELAC Debut 2.0 SUB3030 x2 \| NVIDIA SHIELD TV Pro 2019 \| Plex

30th October 2020, 22:08	#926 \| Link
SamuriHL Registered User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 5,351	I haven't had time to install it yet but tonight is movie night (non-HDR since I can't seem to find a copy of The Crow in 4K anywhere sigh) but I will at least update the drivers before watching that and give it a quick test with HDR. (And if I get a minute I'll drive it through the fury as well and check that metadata isn't broken. Sad that this is something we need to do on every release now) __________________ HTPC: Windows 11, AMD 5900X, RTX 3080, Pioneer Elite VSX-LX303, LG G2 77" OLED

30th October 2020, 22:23	#927 \| Link
SamuriHL Registered User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 5,351	All is well with the latest driver in regards to HDR as far as I can see. metadata is good and no change to overlay dropping to SDR as seen before. __________________ HTPC: Windows 11, AMD 5900X, RTX 3080, Pioneer Elite VSX-LX303, LG G2 77" OLED

30th October 2020, 22:46	#928 \| Link
VBB Registered User Join Date: May 2016 Location: Long Beach, CA, USA Posts: 620	Thanks for testing! __________________ Henry \| LG OLED65C7P \| Denon AVR-X3500H \| ELAC Uni-Fi x7 \| ELAC Debut 2.0 SUB3030 x2 \| NVIDIA SHIELD TV Pro 2019 \| Plex

31st October 2020, 00:04	#929 \| Link
Magik Mark Registered User Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 666	Thanks for testing! __________________ Asus ProArt Z790 - 13th Gen Intel i9 - RTX 3080 - DDR5 64GB Predator - LG OLED C9 - Yamaha A3030 - Windows 11 x64 - PotPlayerr - Lav - MadVR

31st October 2020, 03:47	#930 \| Link
mark0077 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,106	Guys,feel free to delete if this is deemed as a duplicate post as I posted it in the madVR thread, but it seems from what I can see to be either Nvidia or LG related, so posting the same details below as I posted in the madVR thread. All LG inputs welcome. I have had awful trouble getting madVR to play nicely with my system when it comes to HDR playback. I have the following setup. If anyone could help it would be greatly appreciated. GPU: GTX 980 with 456.71 drivers Display: LG C9 65" madVR: latest beta with the hdr tone mapping section Player: Latest beta mpc-be Windows HDR Setting: Off Nvidia Display Mode: 3840 x 2160 x 23Hz (any hz reproduces the issues). YCbCr444 Limited, 8bpc madVR / LAV Filters play SDR flawlessly as they always have. With the LG C9 it is well documented that at least in SDR mode, it shows a lot less banding in YCbCr444 8 bpc mode which I have found to be very true, which is what I intend to use for all content for now. The following issues don't happen in RGB Full range mode, only YCbCr444 Limited mode. So the problems start when playing HDR content with madVR, the following two issues happen. Note: I have bought numerous brands of HDMI cable including two brands of HDMI 2.1 cables, even though I know the GTX 980 cannot use them to their full extent. So to me on my fourth cable from HDMI 2.0 to 2.1 across numerous brands, I think I can say I have ruled that out. 1) madVR hdr set to "passthrough HDR to display" with "send HDR metadata to the display". When madVR starts, and the HDR icon appears at the top right of the LG display, the screen goes almost completely green (I know it sounds like a cable, but believe me, it must be something else). When I return out of HDR mode (close the player) it returns to normal, the desktop is no longer green. When I switch my display to HDR mode from anything else, the a) HDRSwitch tool, from b) Windows HDR settings or c) from games, this green screen / tint doesn't appear. Only when triggered via madVR does it happen. Can it be sending something else in the "send HDR metadata to the display" that for some reason conflicts with YCbCr 444 and is not meant for that mode? As mentioned, this doesn't occur in RGB Full range mode, the display never goes any strange colors in that mode. It can do 60hz RGB 8-bit without issues, albeit with the extra banding everyone knows about with these screens. 2) madVR hdr set to "tone map HDR using pixel shaders". When madVR starts, it obviously leaves the screen in SDR mode, which is as expected. The image shown now looks good (not green) when in windowed mode. When I double click the screen and go fullscreen (not full screen exclusive, just windowed fullscreen), the image goes almost completely black. I can just about see the brightest content on screen. To note here, when this happens, the Ctrl-J content/output shows exactly the same details before/after. Something as basic as right clicking the display, when in fullscreen, again triggers the image to show the proper black levels, and the Ctrl-J output still remains the same, even the "D3D11 fullscreen windowed (8-bit)" string. When turning off the right click menu, the image again returns to almost completely black, although I can see the shapes moving around. When I switch off "use Direct3D 11 for presentation" in the general settings, this behaviour stops. D3D9 doesn't seem to show this second issue. Do you think this means its an NVidia issue/madVR issue or something configured wrong on my side thats affecting D3D11. Again this second issue doesn't happen with RGB Full range mode, even in Direct D3D11. Last edited by mark0077; 31st October 2020 at 03:58.

31st October 2020, 06:12	#931 \| Link
VBB Registered User Join Date: May 2016 Location: Long Beach, CA, USA Posts: 620	Mark, I replied to you yesterday in the main thread. Did you see it? __________________ Henry \| LG OLED65C7P \| Denon AVR-X3500H \| ELAC Uni-Fi x7 \| ELAC Debut 2.0 SUB3030 x2 \| NVIDIA SHIELD TV Pro 2019 \| Plex

1st November 2020, 14:34	#932 \| Link
mark0077 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,106	Thanks VBB, yes using 16-235 isn't really an option for me as I use the PC for both HTPC and also "normal" PC use. I actually think I found something that might help RGB Full 8-bit 0-255 mode band less. Maybe you guys are already aware of it. Its to enable the correct nvidia dithering setting here. https://hub.displaycal.net/forums/to...th-windows-os/ When I import the following into the correct area of my registry (its the 8-bit temporal dithering), and restart the nvidia drivers using CRU, the banding is good now to my eyes, in RGB mode. Do you guys mind trying this? Does this mean we no longer have to recommend using YCBCR 444? Code: Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00 [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\nvlddmkm\State\DisplayDatabase\GSMC0A016843009_01_07E3_8E] "DitherRegistryKey"=hex:db,01,00,00,10,00,00,00,01,01,01,04,f3,00,00,00

1st November 2020, 14:39	#933 \| Link
huhn Registered User Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 7,926	"this" (different tool) has been tested and it's not effecting madVR positively it can only affect it negatively because madVR has it's own dithering and dithering is made to lower bit deep. the desktops is a bit different but is rendered in 8 bit and dithering 8 bit to 8 bit is doing nothing.

1st November 2020, 14:57	#934 \| Link
mark0077 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,106	Yeah I really don't know what this is doing. I thought the same, with the desktop at 8-bit, what would 8-bit temporal dithering be doing. But it does at least do something on the desktop. I have a black to white gradient set as my desktop wallpaper to test this. When the registry key is not there you can see the noticeable banding patterns. When I tried a few settings, I took the notes below, all looking bad except for the 8 bit temporal one. Maybe we need to come up with a way to test this with madVR to see does it negatively impact it. I'll try to think of a good way to test this. Code: No registry key present - bad Key present, but set to "disabled" - bad Key present, and set to "default" - bad Key present, and set to "8 bit temporal" - good, few very slight bands Key present, and set to "10 bit temporal" - not bad but more bands than 8 bit temporal

1st November 2020, 15:40	#935 \| Link
huhn Registered User Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 7,926	there are ways to test this with madVR and there is a "much" better tool too. take this image: http://www.bealecorner.org/red/test-...ient-16bit.png and load it in madVR put the desktop to 8 bit make sure madVR is outputting 10 bit dithering option in madVR isn't that important for this test beware newer test build will not output 10 bit with nvidia when the desktop is 8 bit. now you look at the green part of this image with temporal dithering in my test it "flickers"(it's temporal it'S made to "flicker"..).

1st November 2020, 16:00	#936 \| Link
mark0077 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,106	OK cool. I'm testing that png in madVR at the moment, but with the latest madVR beta, so I can't see any green flickering with nvidia set to temporal 8-bit. Even with the display settings in madVR set to "10 bit or higher". Is this what you see, flickering? Maybe its because as you say, madVR will output 8-bit if it sees the display is currently set to 8. I found some old doom9 threads where people link to a tool to set the dithering settings (very handy) and those discussions seem to be saying the nvidia dithering doesn't affect madVR output, only the desktop. Did you find that in your tests? I can't yet see a downside to using nvidias dithering although I don't know what its really doing to be honest. I wish we had an nvidia contact who could explain why it subjectively at least, makes the desktop look better when its set to dither.

1st November 2020, 19:25	#937 \| Link
VBB Registered User Join Date: May 2016 Location: Long Beach, CA, USA Posts: 620	I did a lot of testing with that tool you mentioned (created by a Dutch guy over at AVS). Used to be command line only, but it has evolved since: https://github.com/Maassoft/ColorControl Anyway, by default, Nvidia drivers dither always except when set to RGB full. That's why you had to enable it and found that it makes a bit of a difference. __________________ Henry \| LG OLED65C7P \| Denon AVR-X3500H \| ELAC Uni-Fi x7 \| ELAC Debut 2.0 SUB3030 x2 \| NVIDIA SHIELD TV Pro 2019 \| Plex

1st November 2020, 19:47	#938 \| Link
mark0077 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,106	Ah ok that makes sense, and explains why YCbCr 444 always subjectively looked smoother on gradients. Windows must internally have a 10 or 12 bit pipeline that needs dithering to output at the end in 8 bit. But that's pure speculation on my part. I have not yet seen a downside to enabling the dithering anyways in RGB mode.

5th November 2020, 12:36	#939 \| Link
oldpainlesskodi Registered User Join Date: Apr 2017 Posts: 366	Just setting my new LG OLED55BX6LB - oh my!.....blown away. __________________ LG OLED55BX6LB, Zidoo Z1000 Pro, Yamaha RX-A3060, Polk Signature Fronts & Centre, Wharfedale D300 Atmos surrounds, Polk Signature HTS 10 Sub, DSPeaker Antimode 8033 Cinema Last edited by oldpainlesskodi; 5th November 2020 at 12:40.

5th November 2020, 12:54	#940 \| Link
flaviowolff Registered User Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 32	Hey, guys, a quick noobie question: whats the benefit of settings madvr to change the output resolution to 4k23p, compared to straight 4k60hz, considering that the TV has true cinema on? I'm not using smooth motion, because 50% of my viewing is Netflix and I don't want different motion quality between madvr and Netflix (this would drive me nuts). Thanks!