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Old 17th April 2019, 07:39   #55761  |  Link
ryrynz
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If not 4:4:4 then I'd change NGU sharp from very high to high and switch to SSIM 2D if there's enough headroom on the table.
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Old 17th April 2019, 08:44   #55762  |  Link
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Can you just clarify for me, how do you select 4:4:4, so you mean not RGB and using YCbCr 444 in NCP?

And if so what are the gains ? I thought everyone was saying RGB Full was the correct setting ?
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Old 17th April 2019, 10:25   #55763  |  Link
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No, we often use 4:4:4 to mean RGB or YCbCr 4:4:4. We cannot tell if a display is using RGB or YCbCr internally so we just use 4:4:4 to mean full resolution chroma to contrast against 4:2:2, which is the other option displays often use.

RGB Full is the correct setting in NCP.
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Old 17th April 2019, 10:29   #55764  |  Link
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Ok thank you for the explanation.
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Old 17th April 2019, 11:41   #55765  |  Link
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Madjock here's a post by 6233638, that gives you image you can use to test if your display is using 4:4:4, 4:2:2 or 4:2:0. You will want to see which screen modes allow you to allow full resolution chroma.
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Old 17th April 2019, 15:44   #55766  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nsnhd View Post
If the GPU can afford, which combination do you think will give a better image:
1.Chroma NGU AA High + Luma NGU Sharp High < SSIM 2D LL AR AB
2.Chroma Bicubic60 AR + Luma NGU Sharp VeryHigh < SSIM 1D LL AR AB

Thanks
From what resolution to what resolution
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Old 17th April 2019, 20:09   #55767  |  Link
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@ryrynz

Thanks. Bit of a wake up call to be honest. When I have tried 4:4:4 yest PNGs before I thought everything was ok, what I never knew was that it had to be a native resolution and not zoom in to a 1080p which I did in the past with this 4K TV.

So when I tried this https://imgur.com/a/J2VMDJj The text looks scambled, although very small.

The link you gave I don't seem to have success with any of the 3 ?

I cant see the 4:2:2 at all on the 4:4:4 test
I cant see the 4:4:4 on the 4:2:2 Test
I cant see anything on the 4:2:0 Test

Since they are 1080p images I took my res down to 1080p but no joy.

But the updated image in the link I can barely make out a 4:2:2 which is made up of lines rather than solid colour, but nothing else can be seen.

What am I doing wrong ?
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Old 17th April 2019, 20:20   #55768  |  Link
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Just view the image in the middle of the screen, don't change your resolution or scale the image at all.

You are only supposed to be able to see 4:4:4 if your screen is in 4:4:4, and everything else should be very faint. If you can only see 4:2:2 then your screen is in 4:2:2, not using full resolution chroma. That text image you linked is not useful for this.

The image is designed to tell you the mode your screen is in, not show you what modes it supports. Only one (444, 422, or noting if 420) should be visible at a time.
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Old 17th April 2019, 20:35   #55769  |  Link
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Well thats the problem, I can see 4:4:4 and 4:2:2 in their respective images ? But no faint outline of the other numbers.

EDIT :MMM well with the updated image it was zooming in a fraction, it looks like Im 4:2:2 but the HDMI input selection is set for 4:4:4 and drivers are set at RGB Full.
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Old 17th April 2019, 20:44   #55770  |  Link
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Your TV must be converting to 4:2:2 internally.
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Old 17th April 2019, 20:54   #55771  |  Link
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Ah well I just selected GAME for picture type and now I can see a dark 4:4:4 ?

So all good I think.
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Old 17th April 2019, 20:55   #55772  |  Link
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So if the last builds ignore any metadata, which value is used as MaxCLL when madVR is not measuring the frame peak luminance? 10000? I think an option to set this could be very useful for testing, but at least there should be some information in the OSD. Also, what exactly does the tone map value mean when it measures the frame peak luminance?

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Old 17th April 2019, 21:13   #55773  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madjock View Post
Ah well I just selected GAME for picture type and now I can see a dark 4:4:4 ?

So all good I think.
Use this test image

https://linustechtips.com/main/uploa...8c8d22f67e.png

Take a picture OF the TV of the bottom txt part with the red on blue blue on red with the pixels in focus (up close) and we'll tell you if it's 4:4:4
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Old 17th April 2019, 22:25   #55774  |  Link
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Originally Posted by tp4tissue View Post
IMHO, 3DLut's impact/difference far exceeds the benefit of NGU.

They're not mutually exclusive, but if someone had a choice between buying a new GPU, or a Colorimeter, I'd say Colorimeter first all the way.
Interesting, thanks for the tip. I've been thinking about buying one, but don't really know where to start. For now my 1050ti will have to suffice.
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Old 17th April 2019, 22:28   #55775  |  Link
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The only "advice" anyone can give you is to simply try it. Compare with your own eyes. No one is going to have the same viewing environment and preferences as you. You have to choose what looks "best" to your eyes.
I agree, but like most things involved with madVR, the devil is in the details. If I don't know what to look for, I may never notice the difference. In addition, there may be drawbacks to some of the techniques that I'm not aware of.

I never asked for advice, but rather documentation so I can make my own decision.
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Old 17th April 2019, 22:57   #55776  |  Link
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TechnoPeasant
Some good general guides for you. Here and here.
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Old 17th April 2019, 23:03   #55777  |  Link
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Originally Posted by TechnoPeasant View Post
I never asked for advice, but rather documentation so I can make my own decision.
Fortunately Asmodian and Warner306 have made some very useful guides, but sometimes that's not enough, especially when the options are constantly changing. I'm thinking about making an objective comparison between the madVR scaling algorithms, but right now I'm on other things.
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Old 17th April 2019, 23:59   #55778  |  Link
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Mine really is not meant to be used as a guide.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TechnoPeasant View Post
I never asked for advice, but rather documentation so I can make my own decision.
This is exactly the intent of my madVR Options Explained thread! It is not intended as a guide but just to explain what everything does so you can make informed decisions.

If any option is unclear to you please ask (in that thread if possible, please ), I always want to improve my descriptions and the post in general.
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Old 18th April 2019, 00:47   #55779  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
Mine really is not meant to be used as a guide.



This is exactly the intent of my madVR Options Explained thread! It is not intended as a guide but just to explain what everything does so you can make informed decisions.

If any option is unclear to you please ask (in that thread if possible, please ), I always want to improve my descriptions and the post in general.

That said, Something must be noted about Electricity use.

Because For example, at lower resolutions outputs, Lanczos is really enough, but people do things like NGU chroma. HUGE waste of electricity.
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Old 18th April 2019, 00:55   #55780  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Alexkral View Post
So if the last builds ignore any metadata, which value is used as MaxCLL when madVR is not measuring the frame peak luminance? 10000? I think an option to set this could be very useful for testing, but at least there should be some information in the OSD. Also, what exactly does the tone map value mean when it measures the frame peak luminance?
The MaxCLL is based on the value for hdrVideoPeak:

hdrVideoPeak

hdrVideoPeak is the maximum peak brightness of any pixel in the source. hdrVideoPeak uses the MaxCLL (Maximum Content Light Level). If MaxCLL is 0, or if both MaxCLL and MaxFALL are rounded to an even multiple of 50 (e.g. 500/500 or 10000/450), then MaxCLL is considered invalid and the mastering display maximum luminance is used instead. Sources measured with madMeasureHDR will set hdrVideoPeak to the measured peak of 99.9% of all frames to exclude any outlying pixels, or a valid MaxCLL, whichever value is lower.

If you search through the links in the HDR section of the Kodi guide, you'll find some detailed descriptions of the tone mapping methods.

The tone map to value in the OSD shows the target for the tone curve, which is essentially the value that is used for the mastering display peak in BT.2390. The lower the mastering peak or measured frame peak, the higher the knee point and the less aggressive the roll-off becomes.
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