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Old 8th May 2017, 17:07   #43641  |  Link
ashlar42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cork_OS View Post
Criticism is welcome.
I think an updated diagram like the one you are working on might be very useful for *a lot of people*. If it was finalized I'd even suggest putting it in the OP, so as to avoid repeated questions.

You might want to cater for different scenarios, though, and provide an idea of what GPU is needed for every "quality level". For scenarios I mean stuff like SD-->1080p, 720p-->1080p, SD-->4K, 720p-->4K, 1080p-->4K.

Unfortunately my HTPC still has a GTX660 on board, so I don't how how useful I could be in testing... or is NGU somehow capable to replace sxbr in scenarios where I use it for doubling?

Last edited by ashlar42; 10th May 2017 at 11:26.
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Old 8th May 2017, 18:12   #43642  |  Link
oddball
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Since HDR is not working for AMD (always gets the most compatibility issues for some reason) and MadVR takes ages to load a video now I've rolled back for the time being.
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Old 8th May 2017, 19:26   #43643  |  Link
arrgh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
windows is outputting 0-255 to the driver.
there are so many test pattern for the black level i don't even know where to start.
...
or this 16 is black on this test pattern: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-di...libration.html

is not that complicated at all it mostly comes down to your TV setting and if it is able to to use full range RGB or not.
yes, I know the AVS-Disk of course; I have also Ted's Calibration disk and others...
but I was intimidated somewhat by madshi's explicit pointing out the "0,0,0"-issue; on top comes that if you let check the properties of those calibration paterns (mkv or mp4) with Mediainfo, you get :



so, on the one Hand "8bit" but on the other Hand "4:2:0", which is "limited" in my understanding...

but, if I understand you correctly, I can set madVR to "do not calibrate" and then calibrate the TV manually by displaying those paterns via madVR/MPC-BE..., right (I'm talking about a 1080p-display)?

last question: once calibrated, will also the calibration be mostly correct for Window Mediaplayers displaying life-TV? are they using RGB-full (8bit)?

thanks!

(I know I'm somewhat off-topic here, sorry; but on the other Hand, it does also have an impact on how to setup madVR / GPU / TV...)

Last edited by arrgh; 8th May 2017 at 21:08.
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Old 8th May 2017, 19:43   #43644  |  Link
huhn
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with default settings madVR and windows media player render every content in full range RGB and give that the GPU driver.

nearly every video out there is YCbCr and is limited range but this doesn't really matter because madVR is displaying this as full range RGB.

the complicated part is what the GPU driver does with it and if the TV is correctly setup for full range or not.
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Old 8th May 2017, 21:10   #43645  |  Link
arrgh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
with default settings madVR and windows media player render every content in full range RGB and give that the GPU driver.

nearly every video out there is YCbCr and is limited range but this doesn't really matter because madVR is displaying this as full range RGB.

the complicated part is what the GPU driver does with it and if the TV is correctly setup for full range or not.
ok, thanks for the important confirmation
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Old 8th May 2017, 22:45   #43646  |  Link
pose
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After some testing i think im switching to NGU AA exclusively for ALL 2D anime regardless of quality.
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Old 8th May 2017, 23:02   #43647  |  Link
gicug
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Has anyone tried HDR passthrough using an Intel Kaby Lake GPU and one of these adapters?

https://www.amazon.com/DisplayPort-H.../dp/B01B6ZOMIS

https://www.amazon.com/Club3D-Displa.../dp/B017BQ8I54
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Old 8th May 2017, 23:50   #43648  |  Link
ryrynz
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I recommend adding some adaptive sharpening as well.
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Old 9th May 2017, 03:24   #43649  |  Link
johnnylaiyee
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Finally got through the 5 day to post here

Recently purchased a GTX1050 for my new LG 4K TV to play 4K HDR video smoothly (my old 970 isn't perform well)

Surprisingly, the 1050 performed well in 1080p -> 2160p, almost the same as my 970

Chroma: Bicubic60 + AR
Downscaling: DXVA
Image upscaling: Off
Image doubling: NGU Sharp
<-- Luma doubling: high
<-- Luma quadrupling: let madVR decide
<-- Chroma: let madVR decide (Bicubic60 + AR)
<-- Doubling: let madVR decide
<-- Quadrupling: let madVR decide
<-- Upscaling algo: let madVR decide (Bicubic60 + AR)
<-- Downscaling algo: let madVR decide
Upscaling refinement: Off
Artifact removal - Debanding: High/Medium
Artifact removal - Deringing: Off
Image enhancements: Off
Dithering: Ordered

Performance: around 35ms when playing 1080p remux files
around 28ms when playing 1080p web-dl TV files

I also applied a custom refresh rate very close to 47.952Hz and successfully get the repeat 1 frame time to hours

However, there are visible judder in panning shots which is quite annoying.
I know that smooth motion is not for 24hz multiplies since it may blurry the image.
Can anyone suggest what I can do to reduce those judder?

Last edited by johnnylaiyee; 9th May 2017 at 03:28.
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Old 9th May 2017, 04:18   #43650  |  Link
huhn
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first of stop using a custom refreshrate of 47p and try the normal 23p and see if the judder is gone.

next problem is the 1050 these card usually only have 2 GB Vram so if this is the case you are running out of Vram with it when upscaling 1080p -> 2160p.
so check the OSD for strange behavoir like dropped frames (it doesn't have to drop frames it may work even when running out of Vram)

next problem is the TV some TV need special settings to display 23/24pcorrect check this out.
some older LG OLED need a firmware update for proper 23/24p so check this out too.

or just use 60 HZ with smoothmotion. always on option.
edit:
Quote:
Performance: around 35ms when playing 1080p remux files
around 28ms when playing 1080p web-dl TV files
this doesn't make any sense the work is the same if it is a 40 mbit blu ray or a crappy youtube video it doesn't matter what matters is resolution and frame rate.

Last edited by huhn; 9th May 2017 at 04:23.
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Old 9th May 2017, 04:48   #43651  |  Link
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Thanks huhn for your quick reply!

I will try the 23hz method you've mentioned later.

Regarding the 2gb ram of 1050, I always use the OSD to check the stability when opening a movie (see the rendering time and frame repeat estimation) and Ctr+R after Ctr+J to switch off and reset the OSD. When I finished the movie, I check the OSD again to ensure no dropped or repeated frame.

Maybe the 2gb is good enough for double scaling after I set the crop black bar option in Madvr? Because with the Madvr setting I posted, movie plays smoothly without any frame dropped or repeated.

And yes, I enabled the True Cinema 24p option in my LG 65UH8500.

I think the bitrate of the file plays huge part to the rendering time I suppose? The rendering time is longer when playing 35mb/s remux than 5mb/s web-dl TV episode.
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Old 9th May 2017, 05:11   #43652  |  Link
huhn
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Originally Posted by johnnylaiyee View Post
Maybe the 2gb is good enough for double scaling after I set the crop black bar option in Madvr? Because with the Madvr setting I posted, movie plays smoothly without any frame dropped or repeated.
cropping blackbars should help a lot but not everything has blackbars.
and even if you are running out of Vram that doesn't mean you will drop frames. you will get high rendertimes a lot higher... and "stuff" can happen.

NGU high is a relative easy scaling algorithm for nvidia polaris cards.
with NGU high i'm close to 3GB Vram usages.

because you are not dropping frames the issue should be the TV or the custom refreshrate.

Quote:
I think the bitrate of the file plays huge part to the rendering time I suppose? The rendering time is longer when playing 35mb/s remux than 5mb/s web-dl TV episode.
bitrate only really matter for software decoder (which is run on the CPU)
madVR doesn't care it is running on the GPU. even if the CPU is working harder madVR rendertimes shouldn't change.

same for hardware decoder they generally don't care for bitrates below 40 mbit.
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Old 9th May 2017, 05:24   #43653  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
because you are not dropping frames the issue should be the TV or the custom refreshrate.
Using the native 24p refresh rate of my TV, the repeat frame time is lower like secs to mins since it deviated quite alot from 23.976. And it sucks that reclock have no 64 bit version.
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Old 9th May 2017, 09:32   #43654  |  Link
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@johnny do this it should change your repeat/dropped frames to hours.
Panning will still judder in comparison to Smooth Motion but I find it's sharper more crystal appearance to be a better viewing experience..
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Old 9th May 2017, 09:45   #43655  |  Link
johnnylaiyee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
@johnny do this it should change your repeat/dropped frames to hours.
Panning will still judder in comparison to Smooth Motion but I find it's sharper more crystal appearance to be a better viewing experience..
Thanks for the tip! Will try it as soon as I can.

But do u think 47.952hz will perform better than 23.976hz in terms of judder?

Last edited by johnnylaiyee; 9th May 2017 at 09:49.
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Old 9th May 2017, 09:58   #43656  |  Link
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Either you do 60Hz+ with Smooth motion enabled or you get as close to 23.976 as you can.
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Old 9th May 2017, 12:29   #43657  |  Link
ashlar42
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Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
Either you do 60Hz+ with Smooth motion enabled or you get as close to 23.976 as you can.
No, the target is not necessarily 23.976.

I suggest johnnylaiyee reads and follows the guide I wrote here: https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=173571
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Old 9th May 2017, 12:29   #43658  |  Link
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panning will show the same judder with smooth motion at 60 hz as a proper 23p implementation.
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Old 9th May 2017, 12:34   #43659  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
panning will show the same judder with smooth motion at 60 hz as a proper 23p implementation.
But why? How to obtain judder free playback, especially on panning shots?
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Old 9th May 2017, 12:38   #43660  |  Link
huhn
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there is no judder with smooth motion and a proper 23p implementation.
http://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/judder

if you want it to be more "smooth" than only more frames can do the trick.
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