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Old 10th August 2019, 23:17   #57061  |  Link
okc_smoker
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No one started it, you can be the One
Lol! As much as I'd love to, I don't really have the time to take that on at this point. I did just switch my AMD RX 560 for an RX 5700 (not XT), though. I'd be happy to run any tests or provide data points for various settings. I will say that, so far, the 5700 is blowing me away. I can run pretty much whatever MadVR settings I want and I barely break 30 fps (rendering). I'm happy to be a test subject for Navi if anyone is interested.
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Old 11th August 2019, 00:03   #57062  |  Link
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I was thinking of attempting something...

What about the idea of a 4K video that tries to run at high fps? H.264 fast-decode so it is likely it can be decoded fast enough on most newer systems. Record the number of dropped frames averaged over three runs. It is hard to come up with a good benchmark that doesn't require a lot of steps and/or is prone to user error. Any manual recording of MHz + ms numbers with a collection of standard videos will be pretty hard to do well. Even this idea of manually reporting dropped frames would be tricky to accurately reproduce from user to user but it would push the GPU to the max and only require one test video.

edit: probably better to use a 1080p video upscaling to 4K instead, to actually test image upscaling which is the most important place to spend GPU power.
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Old 11th August 2019, 00:29   #57063  |  Link
huhn
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the best i found is:
1080p23 supersampled
advanced render stats
pushing it as far as possible before dropping frames with the chroma option you have quite some options with that.
if that's not enough we can add a better tier later with 30-60 FPS

now you make a screenshoot with GPU-Z and the OSD.
take the MS for the doubling and the clock / GPU load and put it into the list sorted after settings followed by ms, clock or so.

is this perfect no without a question but it give user real world examples.

something similar could be done with HDR but that should be ignored until it is finish some day some day for sure.
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Old 11th August 2019, 00:51   #57064  |  Link
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I would think the ideal would be to provide some sample videos and some MadVR config files and have users run the sample videos and report the results with the provided configurations. That seems like the best way to get reliable data.

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Old 11th August 2019, 01:10   #57065  |  Link
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The problem with more comprehensive methods is that they do not scale well with GPU power, especially if we do not want to drop frames. A 1650 to 2080 Ti is a very wide range, and that is only Nvidia's current GPUs. With AMD and old GPUs collating and understanding a comprehensive data set seems like a lot of manual work. Without hooks into madVR and some software automation I think that kind of data set is too ambitious.

I think just the frame drop rate doing something too hard might be a pretty good judge of madVR performance in more realistic workloads, at least enough to test.

I agree that a settings.bin file is required along with a specific test video or set of videos. We might need two settings to cover every GPU and/or output resolution.
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Old 11th August 2019, 01:41   #57066  |  Link
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drop frames is like the most unreliable measurement you can do. as soon as madVR drops more then a couple it start repeating and with that it may start dropping then drops more and more totally unreliable between runs.

GPU doesn't got much faster in the past years a 2080 ti is not even close 5x as fast as a 1650.

if someone is unable to figure what is the maximum setting this card can read why would you want a his data?
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Old 11th August 2019, 02:19   #57067  |  Link
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I don't claim to be an expert when it comes to video processing, but I do have 20+ years as a software engineer. Any data we can gather is going to be wildly speculative, but if we can get a broad enough sample, I would think it would still be useful. Certainly better than what we have now (i.e. nothing). The key is to eliminate as many variables as possible. Using specific videos and specific MadVR settings seems to me to be as close as we can get to a controlled study. I would think it would be worthwhile, at the very least...
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Old 11th August 2019, 04:13   #57068  |  Link
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MPC-HC 1.8.7
madVR - not sure which version but I installed via K-Lite Codec Pack
Windows 10 Laptop with 4k HDR (fake HDR, 8+2) screen
iGPU: Intel HD 630
dGPU: GTX 1050TI with Max-Q
NVIDIA settings shows that my laptop's screen is physically connected to iGPU

Files I am playing:
-Your name in 4K HDR
-Sony 4k HDR sword demo

LAV settings: DXVA2 - Intel HD 630, no option (greyed out) to use NVIDIA dGPU
MadVR settings: Passthrough HDR to display, send HDR metadata to display

With these settings, I can "see the HDR" on both files. Your name more or less plays fine, but the Sony sword demo will visibly lag or be "slow".

When I try to get MPC-HC to use my GPU, I lose the HDR colors. I tried the following:
1. DXVA2 (native) + NVIDIA Control Panel Program Settings > MPC-HC > High-performance NVIDIA processor. After this, DXVA2 shows that it is using the dGPU
2. Change DXVA2 (native) to NVIDIA CUVID
Both of these options result in MPC-HC no longer showing "HDR colors".

How do I fix this?
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Old 11th August 2019, 06:03   #57069  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by okc_smoker View Post
I don't claim to be an expert when it comes to video processing, but I do have 20+ years as a software engineer. Any data we can gather is going to be wildly speculative, but if we can get a broad enough sample, I would think it would still be useful. Certainly better than what we have now (i.e. nothing). The key is to eliminate as many variables as possible. Using specific videos and specific MadVR settings seems to me to be as close as we can get to a controlled study. I would think it would be worthwhile, at the very least...
I absolutely agree with you, exactly that's what I told them as well.
The problem is that something has been changed, not just in real world, but here as well, only a few is willing to do something. Especially when it comes to time consuming tasks.

Anyway, maybe I quickly put something together today in a new thread.
Which is the best free hosting service with direct links to files, where we can store 10GB data? (like dropbox, etc)
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Old 11th August 2019, 07:55   #57070  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by okc_smoker View Post
Using specific videos and specific MadVR settings seems to me to be as close as we can get to a controlled study. I would think it would be worthwhile, at the very least...
madVR upscaling speed doesn't depend on a specific video. And that's right and fine. Unfortunately, I can't say the same about HDR processing.
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Old 11th August 2019, 09:26   #57071  |  Link
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madVR upscaling speed doesn't depend on a specific video.
It does!
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Old 11th August 2019, 12:03   #57072  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by okc_smoker View Post
I would think the ideal would be to provide some sample videos and some MadVR config files and have users run the sample videos and report the results with the provided configurations. That seems like the best way to get reliable data.
There you go: madVR 4K GPU performance test
And I already posted the first result set
Enjoy!
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Old 11th August 2019, 13:18   #57073  |  Link
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drop frames is like the most unreliable measurement you can do. as soon as madVR drops more then a couple it start repeating and with that it may start dropping then drops more and more totally unreliable between runs.
It isn't super reproducible but it does give an idea. I measured a 5.6% standard deviation over 10 repeats when dropping an average of 11.1% (10.5% to 12.6%) of the frames in a 240 fps 1080p encode of big buck bunny. I did have to mess with settings to get it even that reproducible.

That said, I am not sure how useful a "max settings" data set would be either. A madVR benchmark score is not a list of max settings for every GPU. Settings are too flexible and complex for that to be super useful.
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Old 11th August 2019, 14:45   #57074  |  Link
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That said, I am not sure how useful a "max settings" data set would be either. A madVR benchmark score is not a list of max settings for every GPU. Settings are too flexible and complex for that to be super useful.
Max settings or not, if we get enough people running the same videos with the same settings, that would still be useful.

Maybe 1080p -> 4k with image scaling using NGU Low, Medium, High, etc. We could include whatever settings we want if there were standardized configs that users could just download and run.
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Old 11th August 2019, 14:54   #57075  |  Link
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Stupid noob question here sorry.

Apple TV with Infuse Pro or HTPC with madVR ?

Which one would be better, have higher picture quality, and more reliable + supported ? I know which one is cheaper.

Thanks!
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Old 11th August 2019, 16:27   #57076  |  Link
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Also which mid range video card would be best for madVR and what would be the highest settings I could use ?

I want to get a RTX video card but keep hearing about glitches, stuttering, or something with them and madVR
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Old 11th August 2019, 19:48   #57077  |  Link
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It isn't super reproducible but it does give an idea. I measured a 5.6% standard deviation over 10 repeats when dropping an average of 11.1% (10.5% to 12.6%) of the frames in a 240 fps 1080p encode of big buck bunny. I did have to mess with settings to get it even that reproducible.
12% is not enough before madVR starts "batch" dropping at some point madVR even runs async.
the next problem with 240 hz is decoding may have an impact and the overhead just for final steps is gigantic.
Quote:
That said, I am not sure how useful a "max settings" data set would be either. A madVR benchmark score is not a list of max settings for every GPU. Settings are too flexible and complex for that to be super useful.
using my method gives real a world example what a GPU is capable of and using the ms to sort them gives a general list what GPU is better which is only useful for to measuring it between different GPU types everyone knows a 1660 is better then a 1650.

i didn't start a test like this because i think it is not good enough.
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Old 11th August 2019, 22:06   #57078  |  Link
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I think everyone is making this "benchmark"/comparison for too complicated. We want a simple procedure to give us a simple number. If GPU "A" can perform a standardized playback with a GPU usage of 60%, and GPU "B" performs the same task with a usage of 96%, is it not safe to deduce that GPU "A" performs better with madVR? Don't most players have an OSD which shows various info, including GPU usage (in PotPlayer it's the TAB key)? Also a GPU should be able to handle at least 90% usage before frames drop (I can push mine to 96-97%), so we should be able to have a nice wide range of values to sort GPU's by. If your GPU usage is bouncing around all over the place (by more than a few % points) wouldn't that indicate an improper setup?

I'm just trying to simplify things so that questions like the one by nb4ever can easily be answered if we get enough info gathered.

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Old 11th August 2019, 23:34   #57079  |  Link
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that the reason i only do one test video but GPU usage is irrelevant GPU have no many parts that a not used when using madVR making this metric bad the new boost behaviour doesn't make it better.
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Old 12th August 2019, 00:28   #57080  |  Link
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Hi everyone,

Development of a dark theme for MPC-HC is almost finished. Please test it and let me know if you see any visual bugs, or bugs when interacting with the player GUI.

test build (x64)
test build (x86)

Dark theme can be activated through: menu > view > dark theme

Please test both the dark theme and the normal theme.
found a bug:
entering a list with checkboxes, such as the internal filter list, and going through that list with the arrow keys, deactivating/enabling (spacebar) them, crashes the player. just toggle a few in a row (spacebar, arrow down, spacebar, arrow down, etc) and it crashes with a memory access violation. this is not the case when toggling them using the mouse.

P.S. happens with both themes
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