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Old 2nd March 2019, 15:47   #55081  |  Link
tp4tissue
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Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
Did you try the any of the latest test builds at AVS Forums? The performance is slower than the current official build.
Hrrrm... That might be the kink then... haha

Which one is the latest.
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Old 2nd March 2019, 15:49   #55082  |  Link
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Try this one: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...l#post57681506

You need to uncheck all of the trade quality for performance checkboxes.
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Old 2nd March 2019, 15:52   #55083  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
Try this one: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...l#post57681506

You need to uncheck all of the trade quality for performance checkboxes.
All trade quality performances un-checked

4K HDR performance remains the same.

What's suppose to be slower/ changed from 94.17 ??

wait wait wait, hold on.. it's 7ms higher. but still playable. with my current NGU Med setting.

Tested on Lego ninjago movie, Let me test a 16:9 movie, maybe that will push it over the edge.



Does that Overlay on the top right add to render time? It's higher render times but not astronomically so, such that Madshi wouldn't be able to wiggle a few ms out of it to get back to 94.17 performance level right ?


OKOKOK, upon further testing, NGU med is indeed unplayable.

I don't know why, but it seems when i tested 2 minutes ago, Nutcracker 4 realms, the movie (Ngu Medium) plays at 37ms 42ms peak, Maybe this particular movie have very little HDR highlighting, I can't tell

NEARLY Every other movie plays at the 42ms avg 60ms peak.

I don't understand what the difference between the playable and unplayable movies are, since the bitrates are comparable, they're all 4K hdr. ?

SDR performance unchanged.

OK, Figured it out.. (maybe) Nutcrack 4 realm measures almost entirely in the < 200nit range, I guess that's why it's playable, because it doesn't actually trigger the heavier HDR processing.


It doesn't make sense though, cuz it says HDR on the box,

Halloween (2018), also measures almost entirely below 200, yet it is not playable on ngu medium.


OK, Found another one.. Dunkirk (2017).. This one does measure about 200 range, into 300, But also playable with NGU Medium 37ms avg


Hrrm.. I think I've got it now.. The HDR meta data ? Because for Dunkirk it says HDR 323 nit, and Nutcracker , HDR 183 nit.


So, If that number is BELOW the Target Nit setting of my monitor, the movie will play 37ms, if I set the target nit to LOWER than the meta data number, then it will kick into 42ms.

So if it reports 1000nit, and I set to target 1100, then it will drop to 37ms.. (not that you'd do this).. Only that Dunkirk and Nutcracker movie are the Exception with HDR meta at values lower than my TV's target nit.



Mystery solved..
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Old 2nd March 2019, 16:48   #55084  |  Link
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Did you try the settings posted at #55125. The HDR content in the movie shouldn't make any difference, nor should the bitrate.
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Old 2nd March 2019, 17:24   #55085  |  Link
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Did you try the settings posted at #55125. The HDR content in the movie shouldn't make any difference, nor should the bitrate.
It absolutely does make a difference, try it for yourself

If you set the hdr target nit to above the metadata nit, the render time decreases.


That explains the anomaly i experienced with dunkirk and nutcracker, because they have meta data at nits below my target nit..



Using ngu medium, my system will not run smooth with 4K HDR files.


His laptop from post 55125 says 1060 max-q which is more/less the slowest 1060 variant.



It looks like he's outputting 10bit 24hz though, so that makes sense that he could get 33ms on ngu medium.


Mine is 60 hz, I don't know if my tv supports 24hz on pc input.

but with 60hz output 8bit, with NGU medium, that pushes my render time to 42ms average , unplayable.


I guess this can be rescued with custom res.

We gotta be careful comparing render times, because the minor differences in setting make a huge difference in render time.
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Old 2nd March 2019, 17:41   #55086  |  Link
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At least you now understand the issue. It's very much dependent on content and how much madvr has to do for tone mapping. Some things will play fine with ngu medium. Others will not. It's right at the edge so any little hiccup pushes it into the dropped frame rendering time zone. I tend to use measurement files which helps performance. But it goes back to personal preference and prioritizing certain things to maximize the performance and quality. With this card, there are trade-offs. With a slightly faster card, you'd have a bit more rendering time to play with. Believe me, I've spent months playing with those builds and optimizing it for my C8. I didn't happen upon my settings by accident.
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Old 2nd March 2019, 17:43   #55087  |  Link
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At least you now understand the issue. It's very much dependent on content and how much madvr has to do for tone mapping. Some things will play fine with ngu medium. Others will not. It's right at the edge so any little hiccup pushes it into the dropped frame rendering time zone. I tend to use measurement files which helps performance. But it goes back to personal preference and prioritizing certain things to maximize the performance and quality. With this card, there are trade-offs. With a slightly faster card, you'd have a bit more rendering time to play with. Believe me, I've spent months playing with those builds and optimizing it for my C8. I didn't happen upon my settings by accident.
That guy with the Maxq 1060, the slowest 1060 variant

Something must be unique in his setup.

How is his render time 10ms faster than the fastest desktop variant. Unless I'm CPU bound.. which idk, could be.

I get 42ms average. I just tested on 23.98hz screen refresh as well, seems that makes no difference to render time.

His Laptop is MAGIC.
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Old 2nd March 2019, 17:55   #55088  |  Link
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Maybe he actually has a different GPU in there? Seems strange. Most people using projectors are constantly tone mapping, so the amount of tone mapping involved wouldn’t account for the difference.
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Old 2nd March 2019, 17:59   #55089  |  Link
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I'm running mine at 23, as well, and no it doesn't matter. I can tell you I have the slowest CPU on my HTPC. I'm still rocking a 3770k for now. I don't think that matters too much to this equation. The reason I've chosen the settings I have is because I still wanted NGU for Chroma. Call me stubborn.

NGU AA low
Ordered Dithering
Scale chroma separately

Those are my compromise settings. At the very moment I have dynamic hdr turned off. So my tone map HDR using pixel shader settings:

min target nits: 700
color tweaks: balanced
highlight recovery strength: very high
output video in HDR checked

The apply dynamic clipping and apply target nits selection are currently unchecked. Which isn't an issue for me cause as I said I tend to use measurement files to get a little performance back. With a movie like BvS I'm rocking avg rendering of about 31ms.
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Old 2nd March 2019, 18:03   #55090  |  Link
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Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post
I'm running mine at 23, as well, and no it doesn't matter. I can tell you I have the slowest CPU on my HTPC. I'm still rocking a 3770k for now. I don't think that matters too much to this equation. The reason I've chosen the settings I have is because I still wanted NGU for Chroma. Call me stubborn.

NGU AA low
Ordered Dithering
Scale chroma separately

Those are my compromise settings. At the very moment I have dynamic hdr turned off. So my tone map HDR using pixel shader settings:

min target nits: 700
color tweaks: balanced
highlight recovery strength: very high
output video in HDR checked

The apply dynamic clipping and apply target nits selection are currently unchecked. Which isn't an issue for me cause as I said I tend to use measurement files to get a little performance back. With a movie like BvS I'm rocking avg rendering of about 31ms.

Was the guy in the post using a measurement file as well ?

Because I don't see how it's possible that with a 500mhz less on core-speed and ~50 watts lower difference, he could render 10ms faster ..

Something is very odd here.

But it really could be cpu, at least for me, because I'm using a g3258 @ 4.7ghz on this htpc, It doesn't peak only ~50-75% cpu utilization, but it does have lower cache i believe.
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Old 2nd March 2019, 18:11   #55091  |  Link
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That post puzzles me immensely. Because it LOOKS like some kind of upscaling is going on if you look at his OSD. Luma is being upscaled as NGU sharp HIGH. That wouldn't be happening with a native 4k HDR image. He doesn't have showrenderingsteps enabled so it's hard to tell what it's doing. Plus he's doing full on tone mapping with that setup, using a target of 100 with dynamic tone mapping enabled. Quite frankly, that whole post confuses me.
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Old 2nd March 2019, 18:12   #55092  |  Link
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I don’t know. I don’t have much more to offer on this. I’ll try asking him directly when I get a chance. He posts regularly at AVS Forums and is pretty technical and knowledgeable about madVR. I would think he would know what GPU in his laptop.

Is the difference down to outputting in an HDR format?
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Old 2nd March 2019, 18:15   #55093  |  Link
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I don’t know. I don’t have much more to offer on this. I’ll try asking him directly when I get a chance. He posts regularly at AVS Forums and is pretty technical and knowledgeable about madVR. I would think he would know what GPU in his laptop.

Is the difference down to outputting in an HDR format?

he's not outputing in hdr though, he's doing rgb 8 bit. 10bit madvr setting.

I tried that too, doesn't change render times for me.

What is this Godlvl madvr user doing... hahahaha

We must learn his secret.. !!
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Old 2nd March 2019, 18:16   #55094  |  Link
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I don't think so because not outputting in HDR means you're doing tone mapping much more frequently. With a target of 100 nits anything over that would be tone mapped, thus triggering all the performance hits. With my 700 target nits I have a pretty large range and quite a few movies have the majority of their frames below it, so no tone mapping. It's only when it goes above that target that tone mapping is taking place. Of course with dynamic tone mapping it's measuring in real time so that's a pretty big hit. So quite frankly, I can't explain his post at all.
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Old 2nd March 2019, 18:17   #55095  |  Link
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Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post
That post puzzles me immensely. Because it LOOKS like some kind of upscaling is going on if you look at his OSD. Luma is being upscaled as NGU sharp HIGH. That wouldn't be happening with a native 4k HDR image. He doesn't have showrenderingsteps enabled so it's hard to tell what it's doing. Plus he's doing full on tone mapping with that setup, using a target of 100 with dynamic tone mapping enabled. Quite frankly, that whole post confuses me.
Yea with ur faster CPU, and if you're getting similar render time as I am , that means CPU doesn't make a difference in this case.

Unless he's not using a 1060, he may have a 1070. hahahaha.


Also SamuriHL, what are your render times with ngu Medium, w/ live dynamic tone mapping.
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Old 2nd March 2019, 18:20   #55096  |  Link
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Good question. I've not tried that lately. It'll have to wait as I just kicked off a measurement run to measure some of my new movies. That'll take an hour or so to finish. Once that's done I can take a look. My ideal settings would be:

NGU AA med
error diffusion 2, use color checked
no trade performance options

That's how I'd like to run madvr for my personal taste.
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Old 2nd March 2019, 18:24   #55097  |  Link
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Is image doubling - always supersampling worth the load on the GPU?
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Old 2nd March 2019, 18:25   #55098  |  Link
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Good question. I've not tried that lately. It'll have to wait as I just kicked off a measurement run to measure some of my new movies. That'll take an hour or so to finish. Once that's done I can take a look. My ideal settings would be:

NGU AA med
error diffusion 2, use color checked
no trade performance options

That's how I'd like to run madvr for my personal taste.
Right now, on Live tonemap

I can enable all of the above setting with the exception of NGU- Medium. I have to use NGU- Low on chroma.


Overall, though, I made an image comparison yesterday, of NGU low chroma vs NGU Very High chroma,

The difference is very small. I am not be able to spot it at all by eye,

I was only able to find the difference by using Beyond Compare 4 image compare tool.
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Old 2nd March 2019, 18:27   #55099  |  Link
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Is image doubling - always supersampling worth the load on the GPU?
Only if you're always upscaling..

If you have 1080p to 1080p or 4k to 4k, it's not useful.

Only use it for 1080p to 4k
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Old 2nd March 2019, 18:31   #55100  |  Link
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Here's what I think may be happening.

in SirMaster's post on AVS, He might have multiple computers.

On some of his computers, he has the Madvr lastest test build,


On his laptop with the Max Q, he has the public release version of 92.17.

He thinks they're the same, But they're not.. the latest test build version is way slower.

AND SO, he posted the screen-shot from his laptop, thinking that they're representative of his other pc settings.


That or he has sacrificed goats to some demon for a 1060 maxq which outperforms desktop 1060s by 30%+ using 50% less electricity.
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