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Old 24th February 2020, 08:31   #2141  |  Link
Nintendo Maniac 64
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Apologies for the delayed response and for another somewhat off-topic post, but it was only just now that I came across a video with the according WebM-in-chunks formatting that I previously mentioned in this thread and I didn't think it'd be wise to make a whole new thread for a discussion that will probably last all of like two posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MoSal View Post
Try passing --youtube-skip-dash-manifest to youtube-dl.
This does not seem to work on the following video's 1080p VP9 encode:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K60qpDSSnJU

(assuming that I'm not doing something wrong of course, which is always a possibility)
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Old 24th February 2020, 11:22   #2142  |  Link
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Originally Posted by foxyshadis View Post
It'll look the same to software, it just won't perform the same.
Historically, those have been entirely unusable, especially from Intel. So I hope they won't waste their time on it.
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Old 24th February 2020, 18:33   #2143  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nintendo Maniac 64 View Post
Apologies for the delayed response and for another somewhat off-topic post, but it was only just now that I came across a video with the according WebM-in-chunks formatting that I previously mentioned in this thread and I didn't think it'd be wise to make a whole new thread for a discussion that will probably last all of like two posts.



This does not seem to work on the following video's 1080p VP9 encode:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K60qpDSSnJU

(assuming that I'm not doing something wrong of course, which is always a possibility)
Yep. You get a URL that upon request returns a 404 error. Maybe that's intentional. Maybe not. We would know for sure if their backend stops spitting such URLs.

Or it could be some boring reason, like the video server requiring certain headers, or the server is, for some reason, tied to a specific old quic/http3 draft. Who knows.

Well, at least audio/Opus unfragmented streams still work.
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Old 26th February 2020, 11:19   #2144  |  Link
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Old 27th February 2020, 10:56   #2145  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beelzebubu View Post
Yes.



Could you elaborate on what sort of system (CPU chipset etc.), and where you got the content from? In particular, it'd be interesting to know the respective bitrates for the AV1 & VP9 files/streams, but knowing the encoder settings might also be somewhat useful.

Playback speed correlates a lot with bitrate. The 30% numbers that we've shown at conferences and in blogs are for same-quality encodes, where VP9 has a higher bitrate than AV1. If the files are same-bitrate, the performance difference goes up. On easy content, the postfilters also require a higher % of runtime (compared to e.g. inverse transform or predictors), and since AV1 has more postfilters, that means the difference will grow on low-complexity content, and will be smaller on high-complexity content. The 30% was also without film grain (since we assume the GPU will do that for free), but there is currently no browser that does that correctly yet.
(I have a Ryzen 5 1600, with a B350 board)


I just played youtube videos, with AV1 enabled and disabled, nothing scientific.
But roughly that's what I experienced in cpu usage use.

Last edited by mzso; 27th February 2020 at 11:01.
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Old 27th February 2020, 13:34   #2146  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mzso View Post
(I have a Ryzen 5 1600, with a B350 board)
What browser/version, and on what platform/OS?

Quote:
I just played youtube videos, with AV1 enabled and disabled, nothing scientific.
But roughly that's what I experienced in cpu usage use.
I think Youtube is known to do significantly higher bitrates for AV1 than for VP9, so that could be part of why...
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Old 1st March 2020, 16:45   #2147  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beelzebubu View Post
What browser/version, and on what platform/OS?



I think Youtube is known to do significantly higher bitrates for AV1 than for VP9, so that could be part of why...
I was testing Dav1d on Firefox Nightly. On Windows 8.1
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Old 2nd March 2020, 00:49   #2148  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Beelzebubu View Post
I think Youtube is known to do significantly higher bitrates for AV1 than for VP9, so that could be part of why...
Really? Do you have any documentation?

This would be odd since a key point of AV1 is to be able to use lower bitrates than VP9. And as a performance-heavy SW decoder, lower bitrates help performance as well.
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Old 2nd March 2020, 10:31   #2149  |  Link
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Really? Do you have any documentation?

This would be odd since a key point of AV1 is to be able to use lower bitrates than VP9. And as a performance-heavy SW decoder, lower bitrates help performance as well.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AV1/comment...be_use_higher/

But i think that is not true anymore. Have seen more mixed results and av1 was most of the time smaller.
Will look, if we can collect data about it once new AV1 encoded videos are available(no new AV1 encoded video since 2020-02-23 in the "Popular Right Now" playlist)

Tracker how many AV1 encoded videos are in the "Popular Right Now" playlist per day
https://htmlpreview.github.io/?https...er/yt-av1.html

Last edited by Toggleton; 2nd March 2020 at 10:38.
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Old 2nd March 2020, 20:11   #2150  |  Link
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AOMedia Member Spotlight with Netflix’s Manager, Android Player Infrastructure, Jeff Watts
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Old 2nd March 2020, 22:51   #2151  |  Link
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I am most excited to see AV1 appear in the mobile chipsets. With hardware support, we can start pushing our AV1 support into higher resolutions. Because we have an AV1 pipeline ready, we are in a good position to help evaluate this hardware as it becomes available. I look forward to sharing our learnings with the first AV1 hardware when it comes out.
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Last edited by foxyshadis; 6th March 2020 at 01:32. Reason: change code to quote to fix forum formatting
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Old 2nd March 2020, 23:48   #2152  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Toggleton View Post
https://www.reddit.com/r/AV1/comment...be_use_higher/

But i think that is not true anymore. Have seen more mixed results and av1 was most of the time smaller.
Will look, if we can collect data about it once new AV1 encoded videos are available(no new AV1 encoded video since 2020-02-23 in the "Popular Right Now" playlist)

Tracker how many AV1 encoded videos are in the "Popular Right Now" playlist per day
https://htmlpreview.github.io/?https...er/yt-av1.html
I can see that making sense. Given how YouTube distributes encoding, it would be hard to run AV1 at higher quality/efficiency levels with libaom. So at the same MIPS/pixel, they may have needed to use a higher bitrate than with vp9 to deliver the higher quality they wanted to with AV1. Which makes sense as their goal was to push AV1, not to use it to deliver lower bitrate or higher quality content overall (then they would have just raised vp9 bitrates).

As we're getting faster and better encoding, I would expect the AV1 bitrates to drop while maintaining quality.
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Old 6th March 2020, 00:03   #2153  |  Link
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dav1d 0.6.0 'Gyrfalcon'

0.6.0 brings major improvements in 10/12bit decoding on ARMv8 CPUs, up to 2.5 times faster than 0.5.2. It also brings new AVX-512, AVX2 and SSSE3 optimizations and improves the existing optimizations on all platforms. Finally, it also fixes some decoder mismatches and minor crashes.
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Old 6th March 2020, 01:02   #2154  |  Link
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Excellent! Good to see more comprehensive 10+ bit optimization being done. This is mandatory for HDR
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Old 10th March 2020, 21:45   #2155  |  Link
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Excellent! Good to see more comprehensive 10+ bit optimization being done. This is mandatory for HDR
Yeah, fast ARM 10-bit will make HDR feasible on 2020 mobile devices. For user generated content at least; premium studio content will still require HW DRM.

It's be nice to have some benchmarks with details beyond "Up to 2.5x faster" - is that only in some edge cases, or is ~2x speedup a practical expectation?
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Old 10th March 2020, 22:21   #2156  |  Link
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The optimizations covered quite a lot of very commonly used functions (MC, Loopfilter, CDEF), so I would expect quite decent improvements for the majority of clips. I believe a proper announcement with example benchmarks is still being worked on.
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Old 10th March 2020, 23:15   #2157  |  Link
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Originally Posted by benwaggoner View Post
Yeah, fast ARM 10-bit will make HDR feasible on 2020 mobile devices. For user generated content at least; premium studio content will still require HW DRM.

It's be nice to have some benchmarks with details beyond "Up to 2.5x faster" - is that only in some edge cases, or is ~2x speedup a practical expectation?
The bottom post on this gitlab issue has some benchmarks done by an AOM community member.

Link here.
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Old 11th March 2020, 01:49   #2158  |  Link
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Dav1d 0.6 AV1 Video Decoder benchmark
https://phoronix.com/scan.php?page=n...AV1-Benchmarks
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Old 11th March 2020, 16:27   #2159  |  Link
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It also brings new AVX-512, AVX2 and SSSE3 optimizations and improves the existing optimizations on all platforms.
Insignificant gains for 8 bit video according to Phoronix for modern CPU architectures.
Probably that's why they didn't announce performance differences from previous versions as they always do.
But huge gains for 10 bit video, as they actually begin optimizations for this colour depth for the first time, starting with this version.
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Old 13th March 2020, 23:32   #2160  |  Link
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I discovered a quirk of aom that might be of interest to some people.

Sometimes keyframes in aom look really bad even in constant quantizer mode and a cq level of 20. Examples: https://slow.pics/c/GaddIUgb

I believe this happens when the encoder looks ahead and sees that the keyframe (or parts of the keyframe) is pretty useless because not a lot depends on it.

You can fix these low quality keyframes, if you want, with --enable-keyframe-filtering=0. Obviously, this will use more bitrate.

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