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Old 1st June 2022, 00:02   #63141  |  Link
ashlar42
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Ok, thanks. Solved it. Using Kodi DSPlayer I can select DirectShow filters based on a variety of rules. I have all interlaced files with 480i/576i/1080i in their filename. When I play those, Kodi selects the internal version of LAV Video where I set up DXVA2 copy-back and madVR deinterlaces correctly. All other files are played with external LAV Video with D3D11 Native. madVR using Direct 3D 11 for presentation outputs in both cases 10 bits.

Glad to have finally managed to solve this pet peeve of mine.

Added decoding performance of D3D11 is frankly not needed for SD/HD material anyway (probably not needed anyway with my GPU but, well, as I said, pet peeve).
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Old 1st June 2022, 02:54   #63142  |  Link
Sunspark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flossy_cake View Post
I've got some old TV shows which are HD 1080p remasters, but the shows were made before HD was a thing, and I'm not sure the artistic intent is quite correct in HD. It feels like I'm seeing too much. I suppose an analogy might be like running PS1 games in HD or something. I mean it's technically better, but also different. I'd like to try downscaling these shows to around 480p or 576p internally if possible.
You can change your display resolution, which will then force the need to downscale.

In my opinion though, while it's true the quality of the remastering can definitely vary there is more to it than just upscaling. They also mess with the colour grading, e.g. orange and teal, and gamma, etc. You can see these gamma shifts with anime for sure (e.g. different versions of cowboy bebop) and the colour grading, you can see this with other stuff. madvr can't fix that.
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Old 1st June 2022, 18:31   #63143  |  Link
flossy_cake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunspark View Post
You can change your display resolution, which will then force the need to downscale.
Yep that works, although I'm still not satisfied due to 480p not supporting 24hz on my system, and 480p over HDMI looks poor on my TV due to it having undefeatable overscan and it using Rec.709 coefficients which I can't correct with [matrix=601/709].

Also I may prefer to downscale the vertical resolution below 480p even, since the show in question would likely have had interlace filtering as well, further obscuring the apparent fakeness of the background sets.

What I really want is to tag a file like "myfile [downscale=720x360].mkv" and have MadVR downscale it to that res before scaling it to the display mode's resolution.

I thought there might be a way to do this using MadVR's "screen config" options to shrink the raster, and then zoom in with MPC-HC's controls or vice versa, but I can't get it to work.

Another option is to use MPC-HC's shader loading dialog where I can select a .hlsl shader file which could contain a downscale -> upscale pass. I would just need to find a .hlsl file for Lanczos or Bicubic scaling, but I'd still have to manually select it every time as MPC-HC doesn't seem to support file tagging (I've requested this in the MPC-HC thread).

Another option is MPC-HC claims to support opening .avs Avisynth files, and I could put in the .avs file:

Code:
AVISource("C:\myfile.mkv")
LanczosResize(720, 360)
But I can't get it to work -- error message "couldn't open the file".

edit: got it to work by using DirectShowSource() instead of AVISource():

Code:
DirectShowSource("C:\myfile.mkv")  # a 4:3 video of resolution 1440x1080 square pixels
BicubicResize(720, 480)  # downscale to SD
BicubicResize(720, 540)  # correct aspect ratio to 4:3 square pixels (720/(4/3))
# then in MadVR: AdapiveSharpen strength 0.4
Another option is to just manually reencode the file myself to a lower resolution, but then I'd get generation loss.

The show I'm looking at currently is Lois & Clark The New Adventures of Superman. In HD it looks quite obvious that the characters are on a set and it looks a bit fake (clip).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunspark View Post
In my opinion though, while it's true the quality of the remastering can definitely vary there is more to it than just upscaling. They also mess with the colour grading, e.g. orange and teal, and gamma, etc. You can see these gamma shifts with anime for sure (e.g. different versions of cowboy bebop) and the colour grading, you can see this with other stuff. madvr can't fix that.
Yes I've noticed that too. Warner Bros seem to be one of the worst offenders -- many of the old classic movies now have different colour palettes and DNR.

Last edited by flossy_cake; 1st June 2022 at 19:49.
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Old 1st June 2022, 20:22   #63144  |  Link
Sunspark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flossy_cake View Post
The show I'm looking at currently is Lois & Clark The New Adventures of Superman. In HD it looks quite obvious that the characters are on a set and it looks a bit fake
It looks fine to me.. what I am noticing is that the gamma isn't quite right. It's a little washed out.

Try going into the madvr settings, "color & gamma" enable gamma processing checkbox on and for "pure power curve" change it from 2.20 to 1.80 which will make it lighter, and then 2.60 which will make it darker.. see which end is better for your display/eyes, then adjust it in 0.05 increments.
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Old 1st June 2022, 20:38   #63145  |  Link
flossy_cake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunspark View Post
It looks fine to me.. what I am noticing is that the gamma isn't quite right. It's a little washed out.

Try going into the madvr settings, "color & gamma" enable gamma processing checkbox on and for "pure power curve" change it from 2.20 to 1.80 which will make it lighter, and then 2.60 which will make it darker.. see which end is better for your display/eyes, then adjust it in 0.05 increments.
My TV is calibrated to 2.4 gamma and the contrast looks quite normal to my eyes. Perhaps you are noticing the "bloom" effect the show seems to use?

Anyway I was able to get Avisynth working so I can put any custom filters per-file, and activate them by double clicking my custom .avs file instead of opening the .mkv file. I am really pleased with this as I can now do all kinds of things, even audio delay per-file, blur, sharpen, adjust chroma alignment to fix that Family Guy clip hopefully etc.

Last edited by flossy_cake; 1st June 2022 at 20:40.
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Old 3rd June 2022, 10:30   #63146  |  Link
Polopretress
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Hello

I do not know if it is the good post to ask for a light change request in madvr and if not, please, could you give me the information.

Light change request but very important for Sony Projector Users that use the "Passthrough HDR" mode instead of the "DTM" :

Description:
On Sony Projector it is necessary to set manually the parameter called "HDR" to the value "HDR10" for movie 4000 Nits and to the value "HDR REFERENCE" for movies 1000 nits

Problem:
CTRL J of madvr displays Max CLL value but does not display MasteringDisplay_Luminance which is use to set correctly the parameter.
So that, it is needed to display the metadata via MediaInfo for each movie to know what setting to applied.

example extracted from MediaInfo
Quote:
MasteringDisplay_Luminance : min: 0.0010 cd/m2, max: 1000.0000 cd/m2
MaxCLL : 5180 cd/m2
MaxFALL : 1577 cd/m2
madvr displays "HDR 5180 Nits"

Change request :
Add the parameter Max MasteringDisplay_Luminance to the CTRL J information

Last edited by Polopretress; 3rd June 2022 at 14:09.
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Old 4th June 2022, 00:33   #63147  |  Link
flossy_cake
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My understanding is that the author (madshi) is busy working on another project and probably won't be taking feature requests.

Is there a reason why MediaInfo is not sufficient?

Last edited by flossy_cake; 4th June 2022 at 01:05.
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Old 4th June 2022, 09:52   #63148  |  Link
lazostat
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Hi guys. I want to ask why WMPC with MadVR uses so high gpu power. It's like i am playing a game. Between 180-210w, while other players use only 30-50w. It's a huge difference!

Also, the only way to view 4k hdr remux is with madVR on Windows? Do i need to apply all those settings on some very long guides i read? I don't want upscale or other tweaks for a 4k movie.

Last, which version of madvr should i install in order to play HDR movies?

Last edited by lazostat; 4th June 2022 at 10:31.
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Old 5th June 2022, 01:26   #63149  |  Link
flossy_cake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lazostat View Post
Hi guys. I want to ask why WMPC with MadVR uses so high gpu power. It's like i am playing a game. Between 180-210w, while other players use only 30-50w. It's a huge difference!
What's WMPC? Do you mean Windows Media Player or Media Player Classic? The former is not supported according to madvr.com, the latter is. Is MadVR tray icon present when playing videos, or is MadHcCtrl.exe running in process list? Is GPU decoding acceleration active in both scenarios?


Quote:
Originally Posted by lazostat View Post
Also, the only way to view 4k hdr remux is with madVR on Windows?
Other renderers can play 4k HDR too, but MadVR does it best imo. You just need a decent GPU to decode the video, like probably a 1060 or better for high bitrate 4k60 HDR h.265. Compatibility list.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lazostat View Post
Do i need to apply all those settings on some very long guides i read?
Only if you want to use the latest beta version of MadVR which has autism levels of HDR tonemapping adjustments which I don't really agree with from a purely philosophical standpoint. The tonemapping options in the latest non-beta version are already quite generous and sufficient imo -- either select "passthrough HDR to display" and let your display determine how HDR should be displayed (my preference) or you can have MadVR do it by choosing "tone map HDR using pixel shaders" and enter your display's peak brightness and select either BT.2390 (kind of like soft clipping) or just clipping. You can also unlock a couple of extra tonemapping options by unticking "compromise on tone & gamut mapping accuracy" elsewhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lazostat View Post
Last, which version of madvr should i install in order to play HDR movies?
If you want the autism controls which looks like this then get the latest beta from here (the ones appended with "measure" are the betas; 09217 is the last non-beta which you can also get from official site madvr.com). Or you could do as I've done and get the k-lite "full" pack which includes latest non-beta MadVR + MPC-HC + other filters needed to play all file types.

Last edited by flossy_cake; 5th June 2022 at 01:29.
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Old 5th June 2022, 23:24   #63150  |  Link
EpsilonX
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Hi, quick question...
Using current 120Hz TV, if I play 23.976 fps or 24 fps content, what is the "best" option for MadVR..?
Switch to 23/24Hz or stay in 120Hz (since its 5x24)..?
Thank you.
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Old 6th June 2022, 19:01   #63151  |  Link
flossy_cake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EpsilonX View Post
Hi, quick question...
Using current 120Hz TV, if I play 23.976 fps or 24 fps content, what is the "best" option for MadVR..?
Switch to 23/24Hz or stay in 120Hz (since its 5x24)..?
Thank you.
Is it 120hz (24×5) or 119.88hz (23.976×5)? Ctrl+J should give an indication but it's not accurate. There is also vsynctester.com.

Ideally you would want both modes available as some content is 24 and most is 23.976, and have MadVR to auto select.

Theoretically there should be no difference whether TV is receiving 24 or 120 but in reality there might be some small differences depending on the video processor or the way the panel is being driven when at higher refresh rates. I'm not even sure which model TVs can even display a 4k120 4:4:4.
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Old 6th June 2022, 20:32   #63152  |  Link
EpsilonX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flossy_cake View Post
Is it 120hz (24×5) or 119.88hz (23.976×5)? Ctrl+J should give an indication but it's not accurate. There is also vsynctester.com.

Ideally you would want both modes available as some content is 24 and most is 23.976, and have MadVR to auto select.

Theoretically there should be no difference whether TV is receiving 24 or 120 but in reality there might be some small differences depending on the video processor or the way the panel is being driven when at higher refresh rates. I'm not even sure which model TVs can even display a 4k120 4:4:4.
Hmmm, I always assume there won't be a noticable difference since not all GPU currently can accurately output 23.976 to the dot.
Smooth motion from 119.88hz to 120hz should be fine for me.
The Sony X90J as far as I know have no problem running 4K120@4:4:4.
No, I dont have the TV, still waiting for some new model to check the improvement (if any).
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Old 7th June 2022, 01:46   #63153  |  Link
flossy_cake
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As long as you're aware that Smooth Motion will produce many blended frames with 23.976fps video at both 119.88hz and 120hz (confirmed with video capture) and that it is possible to fine tune a custom refresh rate to high precision if you have the knowledge of how to do it. I should probably write a tutorial. Basically if it's a TV then it's probably using CTA VIC timings, so export the TV's EDID using CRU and open it here to see what VIC mode number it is that you want to adjust, then cross reference that number to a mode on page 26 of this document to discover the full timings of that mode. Then plug those values into this calculator to generate a list of modes resulting in your target refresh which will be very close to the factory timings and should work as long as you delete the factory mode from the CTA block of the EDID in CRU (otherwise GPU driver may use it instead) and add your custom mode to a new Display ID 1.3 block underneath the CTA block.

edit: but you probably won't notice the blended frames with Smooth Motion @ 120hz so unless you really care about having frame-perfect output then it's probably not worth going to the trouble of tuning a custom mode.

Last edited by flossy_cake; 7th June 2022 at 06:04.
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Old 7th June 2022, 08:02   #63154  |  Link
Asmodian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EpsilonX View Post
No, I dont have the TV, still waiting for some new model to check the improvement (if any).
The Sony A95K looks very nice. I think it might be my next display, though it is really expensive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flossy_cake View Post
As long as you're aware that Smooth Motion will produce many blended frames with 23.976fps video at both 119.88hz and 120hz (confirmed with video capture)
You don't need to confirm it with video capture, that is how it is supposed to work.

On a 120+ Hz display I prefer simply enabling smooth motion and never worrying about the fps of the file or the display again. With how short the blended frames are displayed it does not damage the apparent video quality.
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Old 7th June 2022, 10:01   #63155  |  Link
flossy_cake
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You don't need to confirm it with video capture, that is how it is supposed to work.
So we all know 24 goes evenly into 120, so that means if it's still creating blended frames then it's doing it for some other purpose like what -- trying to minimise "jitter" or "strobing" effect of low frame rates? Ok, but in my video capture I found it blends 1 in 2.5 frames on average for 24@120 -- is that really enough to reduce jitter? The fact that it's difficult to tell in a double blind test whether it's enabled in this scenario would seem to indicate not, which is supported by your observation that you cannot tell there are blended frames. On the other hand, the setting does have an option to enable it "if the display refresh rate is an exact multiple of the movie frame rate" which would seem to indicate that Madshi is still trying to do some kind of intentional smoothing not targeted at reducing judder.
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Old 7th June 2022, 12:30   #63156  |  Link
ashlar42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flossy_cake View Post
Only if you want to use the latest beta version of MadVR which has autism levels of HDR tonemapping adjustments which I don't really agree with from a purely philosophical standpoint.
To be fair, the current depths of settings is there for testing purposes. Madshi ha repeatedly stated that they will get significantly simplified once testing is done.
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Old 7th June 2022, 12:44   #63157  |  Link
huhn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flossy_cake View Post
So we all know 24 goes evenly into 120, so that means if it's still creating blended frames then it's doing it for some other purpose like what -- trying to minimise "jitter" or "strobing" effect of low frame rates? Ok, but in my video capture I found it blends 1 in 2.5 frames on average for 24@120 -- is that really enough to reduce jitter? The fact that it's difficult to tell in a double blind test whether it's enabled in this scenario would seem to indicate not, which is supported by your observation that you cannot tell there are blended frames. On the other hand, the setting does have an option to enable it "if the display refresh rate is an exact multiple of the movie frame rate" which would seem to indicate that Madshi is still trying to do some kind of intentional smoothing not targeted at reducing judder.
i explained this before it's not for jitter it's just to a void clock drift and that's it.
and doing absolutely simple math yes you only need to display 48 different frames (1 blended 1 original rest are original repeats) with SM for 24 to 120 everything more is mathematically unnecessary or plain bad.
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Old 7th June 2022, 13:39   #63158  |  Link
EpsilonX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
The Sony A95K looks very nice. I think it might be my next display, though it is really expensive.
I still want to keep my kidney..
Even the 65" A80J is still ~USD 2.200 in my country.
Not to mention my way of using the TV, I use it for 3-5 years, then move it to my mom's bedroom, then her bedroom's TV will be moved to the guest room.
So I need the TV to work for 6-10 years, and since my mom only watch like 3 channel or so, an OLED is gonna be ruined so fast.
Currently monitoring the 65" X90K for improvement over X90J, and if the A80J fall close to the X90K, I'll get that instead (definitely not for the current ~USD 2.200 price).
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Old 8th June 2022, 15:41   #63159  |  Link
ashlar42
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Since my TV is calibrated, I would want to understand how to best set up the Devices/TV/Calibration panel.

The TV is calibrated to Rec.709 for SDR and BT.2020 for HDR. But for Rec.709 I use more than one picture mode. The critical viewing one is with gamma 2.4, then there are other three picture modes with varying levels of brightness for different light conditions in the room. Those three all have gamma at 2.2 (I reserve 2.4 for absolute darkness).

Am I better off telling madVR "disable calibration controls for this display" or is there a point in seeking a different solution?
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Last edited by ashlar42; 8th June 2022 at 16:41.
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Old 8th June 2022, 18:28   #63160  |  Link
x7007
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Is the 10bit issue with windows 11 fixed with 159?
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